# 2013 State of The Union - Let's Go **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 13, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142 "2013-02-13T02:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/81 "2013-02-13T17:06:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What? He’s exaggerating? Gasp! And in the face of solid research by the NRA that proves guns save 200 gazillion lives every day! Hitler. Another valuable contribution to the thread. Congratulations for your, uh, efforts. You realize your zinger to posts with content ratio is about 1,000 to 1, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/82 "2013-02-13T17:16:14Z")
There are ways to close the “gun show loophole” without making it nigh-impossible for regular people to transfer or sell a gun occasionally. It could be as simple as a law stating “if you sell more than 5 [or 10 or 20] guns in one year then you are considered a gun dealer and must conduct background checks”. That by itself would close most of the “loopholes” that are often criticized, while allowing you to give a gun to your nephew, or sell your old revolver, without hardship. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/83 "2013-02-13T17:17:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Shame that Obama didn’t bother with the first half of that sentence during his first term. > > I didn’t watch it. All I know is that he came out and ran his mouth instead of telling us the honest truth: “State of the Union? We’re fucked. Have a nice evening, folks”. How would you “all I know” that if you didn’t watch it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/84 "2013-02-13T17:19:18Z")
Most people familiar with guns understand that, at gun shows (or at least the ones I’ve been to) there are lots of folks with tables who sell their guns, but aren’t considered “gun dealers”. A lot of these folks (and I have nothing against them) derive most of their income from these gun sales, but still aren’t actually considered “gun dealers”. They should be, and they should have to conduct background checks just like other gun dealers. The law can be fashioned in a way to not impact most private-party transfers. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/85 "2013-02-13T17:19:39Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > How would you “all I know” that if you didn’t watch it? I’m pretty sure it would have been all over the news if he had said that. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/86 "2013-02-13T17:25:19Z")
In the proposal to give/sell your gun to little Timmy, you take your gun to a firearms dealer who runs the background check or to the police. The only way that private gun sales would be “criminalized” under the proposal is if they don’t follow the law and take it somewhere to get the required background check. Who cares. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/87 "2013-02-13T17:44:58Z")
I kept hearing, “(they) want a vote.” I didn’t hear on what they would be voting. Some form of gun control, of course, but what? The Feinstein bill? And what about all of the talk on new projects, which have to be “revenue neutral”? Was that code for “dammit, more taxes on the rich”? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/88 "2013-02-13T17:48:50Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > In the proposal to give/sell your gun to little Timmy, you take your gun to a firearms dealer who runs the background check or to the police. The only way that private gun sales would be “criminalized” under the proposal is if they don’t follow the law and take it somewhere to get the required background check. Who cares. It’s not reasonable. We have guns at our hunting camp that are just camp guns. Nobody even knows who owns them anymore. Hypothetical: My grandfather brought back a Japanese rifle from WWII. He passed away but the gun is at our camp. I go up to the camp one weekend, which is jointly owned by my father and three uncles and give the rifle to my kid to shoot and he ends up taking it home and keeping it at his house for three years. How many of us should go to prison? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/89 "2013-02-13T17:49:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > The only thing not covered is sales by private individuals who don’t sell guns for a living. This makes sense, as there needs to be some way for regular people like me to sell a gun. Go back to my example from earlier in the thread: If I give my nephew a gun to go deer hunting with, should I be locked up for not doing a background check? You should have a background check to give guns to relatives. What if your nephew is a convicted felon? The way to do this is that you and nephew go to a gun shop. Pay the owner $15, and he runs a background check for you. Easy peasy. This isn’t as onerous as gun enthusiasts are suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/90 "2013-02-13T17:50:10Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I kept hearing, “(they) want a vote.” I didn’t hear on what they would be voting. Some form of gun control, of course, but what? The Feinstein bill? My point exactly. He demands a vote as if there is even a proposal to vote on, just after he deliberately misleads with vague and confusing terminology that was designed to pander to his base and not be a meaningful discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/91 "2013-02-13T17:52:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s not reasonable. > > We have guns at our hunting camp that are just camp guns. Nobody even knows who owns them anymore. > > Hypothetical: > > My grandfather brought back a Japanese rifle from WWII. He passed away but the gun is at our camp. I go up to the camp one weekend, which is jointly owned by my father and three uncles and give the rifle to my kid to shoot and he ends up taking it home and keeping it at his house for three years. > > How many of us should go to prison? If the guns are part of the camp, I’d say whoever owns the camp. If not, one of you should go and register it. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/92 "2013-02-13T17:58:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If the guns are part of the camp, I’d say whoever owns the camp. If not, one of you should go and register it. Four people own the camp. Register it where? With whom? You realize that gun registration doesn’t exist and is fiercely opposed by gun supporters because it’s the first step towards confiscation, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/93 "2013-02-13T18:03:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Four people own the camp. > > Register it where? With whom? > > You realize that gun registration doesn’t exist and is fiercely opposed by gun supporters because it’s the first step towards confiscation, right? What is the second step? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/94 "2013-02-13T18:03:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You realize that gun registration doesn’t exist and is fiercely opposed by gun supporters . . . I realize that. > [@Debaser](#): > > . . . because it’s the first step towards confiscation, right? But not that, and neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/95 "2013-02-13T18:05:47Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Four people own the camp. Then they are presumably adults and can decide complex issues. > [@](#): > > Register it where? With whom? I’d imagine that ownership would be nebulous as long as it is only used at the camp. I assume that anything that might pass would include grandfathering in older guns like this. But ideally guns would be attached to individuals and changing that attachment would require a background check. > [@](#): > > You realize that gun registration doesn’t exist and is fiercely opposed by gun supporters because it’s the first step towards confiscation, right? It’s fiercely opposed by gun supporters because they have a cartoonish view of reality and are afraid of black helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/96 "2013-02-13T18:09:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s fiercely opposed by gun supporters because they have a cartoonish view of reality and are afraid of black helicopters. Now now. That’s not really fair or accurate. It’s more like a graphic novel or superhero comic than a cartoon. I mean, haven’t you ever seen any of the NRAs publications? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/97 "2013-02-13T18:16:03Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s not reasonable. > > We have guns at our hunting camp that are just camp guns. Nobody even knows who owns them anymore. > > Hypothetical: > > My grandfather brought back a Japanese rifle from WWII. He passed away but the gun is at our camp. I go up to the camp one weekend, which is jointly owned by my father and three uncles and give the rifle to my kid to shoot and he ends up taking it home and keeping it at his house for three years. > > How many of us should go to prison? Really? You guys just leave old guns lying around at your gun camp? Is that responsible gun ownership? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/98 "2013-02-13T18:31:49Z")
So we have a problem with criminals getting guns from gun shows w/o background checks, and you think that shouldn’t be addressed because of some rusty old communal guns at a “gun camp”? Because you can’t be bothered to have someone run a background check for the guns and pay a $15 fee? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/99 "2013-02-13T18:41:28Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > My point exactly. He demands a vote as if there is even a proposal to vote on, just after he deliberately misleads with vague and confusing terminology that was designed to pander to his base and not be a meaningful discussion. President Obama’s proposals are well documented. Nothing vague or misleading. Republicans don’t want to vote on these, for obvious reasons. Voting for pisses off a few people, voting against is insane. Thus, they’d rather not vote. Obama, on the other hand, would like everyone to have to vote yea or nay, because when forced to take a position, most members will probably vote for these things. > [@](#): > > 1. CLOSING BACKGROUND-CHECK LOOPHOLES: > > • Require background checks for all gun sales > > • Strengthen the background-check system > > 1. BANNING MILITARY-STYLE ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES > . > • Get military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines off the streets > > • Reinstate and strengthen the ban on assault weapons > > • End the freeze on gun-violence research > > • Preserve the rights of healthcare providers to protect their patients and communities from gun violence > > • Encourage gun owners to live up to their responsibility to store guns safely > > 1. MAKING SCHOOLS SAFER > > • Put up to 1,000 more school resource officers and counselors in schools and help schools invest in safety > > • Ensure every school has a comprehensive emergency-management plan > > • Create a safer climate at schools across the country > 4. IMPROVING MENTAL-HEALTH SERVICES > > • Make sure students and young adults get treatment for mental-health issues > > • Ensure coverage of mental-health treatment ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/100 "2013-02-13T19:27:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What is the second step? Hitler. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142.md?page=6)