# 2014 College Football General Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937 "2014-08-30T03:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/262 "2014-10-12T16:38:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is no Big Ten envy of the SEC. The Big Ten is far superior to the SEC in terms of the quality of the institutions. In football, the Big Ten has the courage to schedule road games against quality opponents, whereas the SEC adheres to the Schedule Every Creampuff philosophy. Look at the non-conference games of the “mighty” SEC west: > > West Virginia > Florida Atlantic > Southern Mississippi > Western Carolina > Nicholls State > Texas Tech > Northern Illinois > Alabama-Birmingham > San Jose State > Kansas State > Louisiana Tech > Samford > Wisconsin > Sam Houston > Louisiana Monroe > New Mexico State > Boise State > Louisiana-Lafayette > Memphis > Presbyterian > Southern Mississippi > Alabama-Birmingham > South Alabama > Tennessee Martin > Lamar > Rice > Southern Methodist > Louisiana Monroe To be fair, how many of those games are against teams who requested them - not so much for the chance to take down an SEC team as for the money? (How many of these games are away games for the SEC team?) You try paying for 14 sports (which is a requirement for all Division I schools - and if you’re not in DI, you don’t get a share of the DI basketball money). ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/263 "2014-10-12T16:41:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The week by week analysis is probably not that far off, but the cases where Michigan State’s games were tougher than Miss St’s are orders of magnitude greater. Plus I’m unconvinced that Alabama is a more worthy foe than Maryland, having just barely squeaked by an unranked team by one point. I’m also not convinced that at season’s end, Penn State won’t be a better team than Mississippi. > > And totally off the wall here, but what’s with “Ole Miss”? Just call yourselves Mississippi, for God’s sake. We don’t say “Ole Mich” up here. > > At the end of the day, be you Mississippi or Mississippi State, you still gotta live in Mississippi. Orders of Magnitude? :dubious: But I guess you don’t have a problem with one of your schools insist on being called **THE Ohio State University**. Just how pretentious is that? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/264 "2014-10-12T16:51:58Z")
How about “The U” ? 😛 “_ **THE** _ SW Central Louisiana State A&M of Eunice!” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/265 "2014-10-12T16:53:13Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > To be fair, how many of those games are against teams who requested them - not so much for the chance to take down an SEC team as for the money? (How many of these games are away games for the SEC team?) You try paying for 14 sports (which is a requirement for all Division I schools - and if you’re not in DI, you don’t get a share of the DI basketball money). To be fair, a lot of the lower FBS schools and some FCS schools seek money to play the upper level schools. That’s how they fund their programs. I just think the SEC likes to feed off these schools a little more than the other conferences, then use their non-conference record as proof of their superiority. > [@](#): > > But I guess you don’t have a problem with one of your schools insist on being called THE Ohio State University. Just how pretentious is that? It’s a bit silly, but when you’re a Big Ten school it’s quite difficult to be modest, being the leaders and best and all. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/266 "2014-10-12T17:04:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I just think the SEC likes to feed off these schools a little more than the other conferences, then use their non-conference record as proof of their superiority. I think this is he proof of their superiority Jan 8, 2007: Florida 41, OSU 14 Jan 7, 2008: LSU 38, OSU 24 Jan 8, 2009: Florida 24, Oklahoma 14 Jan 7, 2010: Alabama 37, Texas 21 Jan 10, 2011: Auburn 22, Oregon 19 Jan 7, 2013: Alabama 42, Notre Dame 14 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/267 "2014-10-12T18:12:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > then use their non-conference record as proof of their superiority. The non-conference record is irrelevant in the SEC. The games that matter are the conference games–at one point, 6 of the 7 teams in the SEC West were ranked teams this year. Mississippi State just beat three Top 10 teams (#8, #6, and #2) in consecutive games. Nobody else has done that in the last 30 years, and only 5 teams have ever done it. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/268 "2014-10-12T19:02:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The non-conference record is irrelevant in the SEC. The games that matter are the conference games–at one point, 6 of the 7 teams in the SEC West were ranked teams this year. Mississippi State just beat three Top 10 teams (#8, #6, and #2) in consecutive games. Nobody else has done that in the last 30 years, and only 5 teams have ever done it. Sorry OAK, OoC games are not irrelevant. If SECw was losing those OoC games they would not be ranked in the top 10. But the fact is the SECw has won all their OoC games, and games against the SECe. All of them. If the SEC was losing all those BCS Nat’l Championship (Non conference in most of them), the SEC would not boasting as much as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/269 "2014-10-12T20:40:19Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Perhaps an independent viewpoint might be worth considering in the “which conference is mightier?” debate. > > [Jeff Sagarin’s College Football Ratings](http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm) places the conferences in this order: Posted this in the other thread, but when Sagarin has Auburn ranked OVER THE TEAM THAT JUST BEAT THEM, he loses all credibility. I’m okay with looking at computer models in the abstract, but when the model can’t adjust to what happened on the actual field of play, what the fuck good is it? It’d be like Romney trying to schedule his inauguration because exit polls showed he should have won. The actual game is the most dispassionate and objective arbiter there is, but apparently Sagarin’s model has a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/270 "2014-10-12T20:50:01Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > So how many people would have taken the under @115 pts for the Baylor/TCU game? When Cal beat WSU by an identical score last week, it was widely derided as a farce. I don’t hear anybody sneering about Baylor-TCU. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/271 "2014-10-12T20:53:59Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > You just don’t see games like Ohio St vs Miss State team in the regular season. Or Alabama vs Illinois. Or Oklahoma v Duke. > . You’re not looking very hard. Cal plays a Power 5 team every year – we just completed a home-and-home with Ohio State and Northwestern, and have Texas coming up the next 2 years. Tennessee – to their everlasting credit – played home-and-home in the past 10 years with Cal, UCLA and Oregon (and lost 5 out of 6). ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/272 "2014-10-12T21:18:30Z")
Georgia has never been the toughest scheduler, especially since we get Tech OOC at the end of the year. But working from memory, we have also played Clemson, Ok State, Arizona State, Boise State, and even Colorado in the past few years. I seem to remember LSU playing UW, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Oregon in recent memory. This is all a futile argument though I’d say. Nobody’s going to change their mind even if someone points out they are wrong. Classic college football argument! I have my reservations about the playoff system but at least it will let us reduce some of these cat fights at the end of the season. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/273 "2014-10-12T21:44:58Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > When Cal beat WSU by an identical score last week, it was widely derided as a farce. I don’t hear anybody sneering about Baylor-TCU. It was the same total, but the Cal/Wazzu game was one point, not 2. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/274 "2014-10-12T22:23:23Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You’re not looking very hard. > > Cal plays a Power 5 team every year – we just completed a home-and-home with Ohio State and Northwestern, and have Texas coming up the next 2 years. > > Tennessee – to their everlasting credit – played home-and-home in the past 10 years with Cal, UCLA and Oregon (and lost 5 out of 6). Are you trying to tell me that Northwestern is a first tier team? Ohio St vs Cal is the exception that proves the rule. Perennial Top 10 teams do not play 2nd Tier teams from other conferences. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/275 "2014-10-12T22:25:17Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > When Cal beat WSU by an identical score last week, it was widely derided as a farce. I don’t hear anybody sneering about Baylor-TCU. Baylor and TCU were Top 10 teams. :smack: 😃 Honestly, I didn’t see any sneering about the Cal/WSU game. I don’t think anyone cared. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/276 "2014-10-12T22:28:26Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Posted this in the other thread, but when Sagarin has Auburn ranked OVER THE TEAM THAT JUST BEAT THEM, he loses all credibility. I’m okay with looking at computer models in the abstract, but when the model can’t adjust to what happened on the actual field of play, what the fuck good is it? It’d be like Romney trying to schedule his inauguration because exit polls showed he should have won. The actual game is the most dispassionate and objective arbiter there is, but apparently Sagarin’s model has a problem with that. if you take the margin of victory out of the equation, Ole Miss is #1, Miss St #2, and Auburn #3. (last column) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/277 "2014-10-12T23:10:47Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > if you take the margin of victory out of the equation, Ole Miss is #1, Miss St #2, and Auburn #3. > > (last column) Which points out part of the problem. When winning early games by a lot outweighs LOSING, the model is wrong. Football is not about margin of victory or strength of schedule. There is exactly ONE stat that matters and it seems like Sagarin’s model does a poor job of accounting for actual head-to-head matchups. Unless the purpose is to predict who would win if they played again - which under the current system is extremely unlikely to happen and of very limited utility. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/278 "2014-10-13T01:25:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s see… Indiana went to Missouri and beat them. Maryland played West Virginia, Michigan played Notre Dame and Utah, Michigan State went out to Oregon, Illinois went to Washington, Iowa went to Pittsburgh, Nebraska played Miami FL, Ohios State played Virginia Tech, Northwestern played California, Purdue played Notre Dame, Wisconsin played LSU in their neighboring state of Texas. Not that the Big Ten plays some creampuffs, but the Big Ten’s non-conference schedule is infinitely more challenging than the SEC. I love how you come up with this stupid ass argument all the time, and every year someone points out how you Big 10 fans cherry pick teams because it’s such a stupid point. You left off SEC opponents Oklahoma, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St, UCF, Louisville, and Indiana (who admittedly sucks). Don’t pick half the SEC, then compare their OOC schedule to the few decent OOC opponents that you can find throughout the entire Big 10. As if that isn’t enough, we beat your ass in the bowls every year in head-to-head matchups. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/279 "2014-10-13T14:58:47Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Which points out part of the problem. When winning early games by a lot outweighs LOSING, the model is wrong. Football is not about margin of victory or strength of schedule. There is exactly ONE stat that matters and it seems like Sagarin’s model does a poor job of accounting for actual head-to-head matchups. Unless the purpose is to predict who would win if they played again - which under the current system is extremely unlikely to happen and of very limited utility. You don’t get the trophy for being the best team all season. You get it for being the best at the end of the season. Or did I miss a rule that says that the committees that choose the teams for the College Football Playoff and the at-large teams for the Division I Men’s Basketball Tournament aren’t allowed to take things like current injuries into account? ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/280 "2014-10-13T15:00:14Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Mississippi State just beat three Top 10 teams (#8, #6, and #2) in consecutive games. No, they beat 3 teams ranked in the top 10 **that week**. There is no way you can call LSU or A&M a top 10 team. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/281 "2014-10-13T15:22:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The non-conference record is irrelevant in the SEC. The games that matter are the conference games–at one point, 6 of the 7 teams in the SEC West **were** ranked teams this year… If you ignore OOC scheduling, then you just get into circular logic. The SEC West is awesome because they play the other teams in the SEC West, which is awesome. “were” ranked is significant: LSU sucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937.md?page=15)