# 2014 College Football General Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937 "2014-08-30T03:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/862 "2014-12-07T21:27:53Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I do. > > I think “Conference Strength” is additive…a not an average. > > I think Cincy and UCF have better football programs than ISU, Kansas, TTU. > > And it helps the better teams in the Big 12 get a foot in the door to a lot of HS talent in Florida. > > I know that Missouri was glad that TAMU joined the SEC at the same time Mizzou did. Mizzou recruits heavily from Texas and to tell a recruit that they will play in their home state every other year is better than not being able to say it.\* I overstated my point. It will be a rare year that Maryland, Rutgers, Cincinnati, or USF are in the top of their conferences. When you compare those schools to the top team in the Big10 and the Big12 respectively, those will likely be easy wins. It doesn’t, at least IMHO, add to a team’s resume to have a win over these schools to allow them to get into a CC game and get another win. I don’t see how it makes these conference _champions_ a better team than the champion of a conference that doesn’t use these tricks. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/863 "2014-12-07T21:31:14Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t get the love for conference championship games. In the Big12, every team plays the other. If a team has the best conference record out of that, that team is the champion; no need for a manufactured game to prove what 9 games already showed. The Big 12 seems to disagree … Personally, I agree. I’d like to see conferences capped at 10 teams. But that ship has long since sailed into the sunset, and you’re screaming into the wind. > [@](#): > > Why should Ohio State get rewarded because the Big 10 added chump teams like Rutgers and Maryland, to give it at least one more manufactured win, and have an additional opportunity to win in the CC game? The typical Maryland and Rutgers team from the last 10-15 years are as good or better than the typical Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern. Not seeing how they’re “chump teams.” And the CC is guaranteed to be quality opponent. And if you factor in basketball, recuiting, TV revenue, non-revenue sports, academics … it clearly makes a stronger conference. > [@](#): > > In the near future, I see conferences going to a 4 team playoff to give their champion yet another opportunity to bump those neanderthal conferences that only have a single championship game. Possible. Unlikely, but possible. > [@](#): > > Does anyone believe that adding UCF and Cincinnati would add to the strength of the Big12? Factoring in all the reasons above, yes. And in football, they’re both stronger programs than Iowa State, and Kansas. Could easily prove better than post-Snyder K State and post-Leach Texas Tech. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/864 "2014-12-07T21:43:31Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > All plays are reviewed. The replay judge must not have seen enough evidence to stop play and take a closer look. Oh. Well, in that case, I don’t understand what the replay judge was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/865 "2014-12-07T22:00:28Z")
Well, the top four came out just like I thought they would, and the matchups are just what I hoped they would be. If the Ducks can beat FSU and Bama in successive weeks, a very tall order, then they might get some grudging respect even from SEC fans. I know next to nothing about TCU, but I feel bad for them. They were the #3 team going into this weekend, won by over 50 points, and dropped to #6. It’s pretty obvious that they could have won 100-0 and still not gotten into the playoff. And it wasn’t even the unexpectedly brilliant play of OSU that kept them out. If OSU had laid an egg, TCU still wouldn’t have been in. Something wrong there. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/866 "2014-12-07T22:03:26Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > And it wasn’t even the unexpectedly brilliant play of OSU that kept them out. If OSU had laid an egg, TCU still wouldn’t have been in. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/867 "2014-12-07T22:04:41Z")
By the way, does anybody think that Mariota will not win the Heisman? It seems like being the front-runner all year might hurt his chances with some voters who pride themselves on their independent spirits, but jeez, to perform that well every week under that kind of pressure makes it even more impressive to me. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/868 "2014-12-07T22:06:04Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Cite? TCU was jumped by both OSU and Baylor. ETA: Actually, I have no quarrel with the final rankings of the top six. The “something wrong” was probably TCU being ranked #3 last week. But it still has to be heartbreaking to realize that there was absolutely nothing you could have done to stay in the top four. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/869 "2014-12-07T22:21:44Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The conference title has to be Baylor; that’s just the rule. > > In rankings, I’d pick TCU just based on the fact that they scheduled at least one decent non-confernce team. When you go with three creampuffs, you lose all benefit of the doubt. Yes, but the committee’s rules don’t require you to be the conference champ to get in the playoff. What are they trying to determine? The best four teams, or the best four conference champs? Baylor beat TCU, by 3 points, in Waco. They were aided by some really bad officiating calls, but that happens. Baylor lost to West Virginia. TCU beat West Virginia. Baylor played absolutely no one with a pulse in the non-conference. TCU defeated Minnesota - by a larger margin than Ohio State did, by the way. I agree, if you have to determine one Big XII champion, it should be Baylor. Doesn’t mean TCU couldn’t have been picked for the playoff over them, though. I think TCU’s overall resume is better than Baylor’s, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/870 "2014-12-07T22:25:08Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t get the love for conference championship games. In the Big12, every team plays the other. If a team has the best conference record out of that, that team is the champion; no need for a manufactured game to prove what 9 games already showed. When teams are tied, like this year, I believe that the head to head matchup speaks far more than what the stats or a 2nd game might show. Baylor was the Big12 champion in my mind. > > Why should Ohio State get rewarded because the Big 10 added chump teams like Rutgers and Maryland, to give it at least one more manufactured win, and have an additional opportunity to win in the CC game? > > In the near future, I see conferences going to a 4 team playoff to give their champion yet another opportunity to bump those neanderthal conferences that only have a single championship game. > > Does anyone believe that adding UCF and Cincinnati would add to the strength of the Big12? I’m with you here. The committee never said a conference championship _game_ was a requirement or a factor for the playoff; only that a conference champion got extra consideration. Yet Ohio State jumps into the top 4 with a shellacking of a Wisconsin team that was clearly not the second-best Big Ten team (Michigan State), while TCU drops three whole spots even though sharing the Big 12 title. In the past, when the Big 12 actually had 12 teams and played a championship game, there were at least two or three seasons where a BCS-title contending team like Texas or Oklahoma lost in the conference championship. That extra game can hurt you just as much as it helps you. Or more. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/871 "2014-12-07T22:32:24Z")
I also just can’t figure out what the committee was thinking with their final rankings. Okay, yeah, they were thinking “how can ESPN make the most money and get the most eyeballs?” but if a non-cynical me was thinking they might choose the best four teams, well … disaPPOINTED (to quote Kevin Kline in _A Fish Called Wanda_). TCU finished 11-1. Lost at Baylor (final ranking: 5) by 3 points. Defeated B1G member Minnesota by 23 points. Struggled against Kansas. Ohio State finished 12-1. Lost to Virginia Tech (unranked) by 14 points, _at home_. Defeated Minnesota by 7. Had to go to double overtime to defeat Penn State. Struggled with Indiana for three quarters (again, at home). I just don’t see what football-related reason puts Ohio State above TCU. I just don’t. You can’t erase that Virginia Tech loss. As for Baylor, I don’t feel that bad for them. Yes, they beat TCU head to head. But they also lost to West Virginia, and played pretty poorly in that game. They also played three patsies in the non-conference - TCU at least played Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/872 "2014-12-07T22:38:21Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > I’m with you here. The committee never said a conference championship _game_ was a requirement or a factor for the playoff; only that a conference champion got extra consideration. . I’m totally not seeing the “no true champion” nonsense being hurled at the Big 12. Round-robin + tiebreaker is a perfectly valid way of determining the conference champion; at least as valid as divisions/CCG. Everybody plays everybody else, and the team with the best record wins. In case of ties, go with head-to-head. So Baylor is the Big12 champion. Yay. The problem is, nobody said conference champions get a ticket to the dance. perhaps they should, when they expand to 8 teams; but that’s a debate for another day. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/873 "2014-12-07T22:40:26Z")
[QUOTE=Uncle Jocko] Yes, but the committee’s rules don’t require you to be the conference champ to get in the playoff. What are they trying to determine? The best four teams, or the best four conference champs? [/QUOTE] > [@TonySinclair](#): > > TCU was jumped by both OSU and Baylor. Yes, and? Your claim was that “if OSU had laid an egg, TCU still wouldn’t have been in.” I don’t buy that. If OSU (and Baylor) had won by FG in games where they were outplayed, I think there’s a really tough call to make, and TCU could have gotten it. No, Uncle Jocko, the committee’s rules don’t _require_ a conference champion, but AFAIK the rules don’t _require_ them to pick a team with a winning record. As a practical matter, the committee is going to aim to make the pick that makes the most sense to most people. If the Big 12 had named Baylor sole champion, the committee would have faced a lot of obvious criticism for picking TCU over the champion of their own conference. As it happened, the OSU blowout and the Big 12 confernence leadership’s idiocy bailed them out, and IMHO made the decision pretty easy. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/874 "2014-12-07T22:43:11Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m totally not seeing the “no true champion” nonsense being hurled at the Big 12. Round-robin + tiebreaker is a perfectly valid way of determining the conference champion; at least as valid as divisions/CCG. But that _isn’t_ the way they determine it. They named co-champions. That’s the point. Sole Champion \> Co-champion in most people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/875 "2014-12-07T22:49:10Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Yes, but the committee’s rules don’t require you to be the conference champ to get in the playoff. What are they trying to determine? The best four teams, or the best four conference champs? I agree. Which is why I said > [@](#): > > _The conference title_ has to be Baylor … > _In rankings_, I’d pick TCU ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/876 "2014-12-07T22:56:03Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Yes, and? Your claim was that “if OSU had laid an egg, TCU still wouldn’t have been in.” I don’t buy that. If OSU (and Baylor) had won by FG in games where they were outplayed, I think there’s a really tough call to make, and TCU could have gotten it. In which logic text did you learn that it’s OK to add your own conditions to someone else’s hypothetical, and then say he’s wrong? Baylor wasn’t outplayed, and didn’t win by a FG. Yes, if that had happened, AND OSU hadn’t blown out Wisconsin, then TCU would probably be in. Also, if Alabama, Oregon, and FSU had all lost miserably, TCU would definitely be in. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/877 "2014-12-07T23:11:52Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I agree. Which is why I said Yep, I see that. Now. I was arguing with a phantom and not you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/878 "2014-12-07T23:14:05Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > In which logic text did you learn that it’s OK to add your own conditions to someone else’s hypothetical, and then say he’s wrong? > > Baylor wasn’t outplayed, and didn’t win by a FG. Yes, if that had happened, AND OSU hadn’t blown out Wisconsin, then TCU would probably be in. Also, if Alabama, Oregon, and FSU had all lost miserably, TCU would definitely be in. I didn’t say you were wrong; I said “cite?” which is a request for supporting evidence or argumentation. I was wondering if you might offer some crazy theory about how it was all rigged or something, so I was just asking for your reasoning. As your second paragraph indicates, you agree that “if OSU had laid an egg, TCU still wouldn’t have been in” is not quite accurate, so we’re all good. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/879 "2014-12-07T23:22:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m totally not seeing the “no true champion” nonsense being hurled at the Big 12. Round-robin + tiebreaker is a perfectly valid way of determining the conference champion; at least as valid as divisions/CCG. Everybody plays everybody else, and the team with the best record wins. In case of ties, go with head-to-head. > > So Baylor is the Big12 champion. Yay. The problem is, nobody said conference champions get a ticket to the dance. perhaps they should, when they expand to 8 teams; but that’s a debate for another day. Yep, I am now totally with an 8-team playoff. Power 5 conference champs get in automatically, each conference determines their champ however they want. Have a game or not, I don’t care, but name one champion. Then fill out the field with 3 at-large teams. No more than 2 per conference. Easiest way is the next three highest ranked non-champions. This year you’d have: - Michigan State vs Alabama - Mississippi State vs Oregon - TCU vs Florida State - Baylor vs Ohio State I would watch the hell out of that. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/880 "2014-12-08T00:08:16Z")
Must be Mississippi State had a great week of practice, jumping over Michigan State despite neither team playing. Four teams is just too few. At the very least, they need to go to 8 teams. I feel for Baylor and TCU, but I’d feel bad for Ohio State if they had drawn the short straw. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937/881 "2014-12-08T00:37:21Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Yep, I am now totally with an 8-team playoff. Power 5 conference champs get in automatically, each conference determines their champ however they want. Have a game or not, I don’t care, but name one champion. > > Then fill out the field with 3 at-large teams. No more than 2 per conference. Easiest way is the next three highest ranked non-champions. > > This year you’d have: > > - Michigan State vs Alabama > - Mississippi State vs Oregon > - TCU vs Florida State > - Baylor vs Ohio State > > I would watch the hell out of that. And if you play at neutral fields, you have half empty stadiums like the PAC12 Championship game. Your asking the followers of the finalists to go to three games. And if you play at the home fields fans would possibly be facing sub zero temperatures and blizzards. At least the college players have to be there. I know the B1G whines about never having a home game in bowls. But no one wants to go to Columbus or Madison or Ann Arbor or Lincoln in January. I know the players will be on board, but how much more do we want to exploit these kids. Yes the stars are going to well compensated. But there are 80-90 players on each team that will never see an NFL contract and there is a added chance of a crippling injury for the blocking fullback or the guy on Special Teams. All this, because the Media and passionate fans feel like they are getting snubbed. I got news for everyone, no matter how many teams are in the playoff, someone is going to feel like they are getting snubbed. In the present scenario with an 8 team format, TCU, Baylor, Mississippi St and Michigan St are getting a gift by NOT playing in the Conference Championship Game. Ga Tech, Missouri, and Arizona are getting penalized for playing in the Conference Championship Game. > [@](#): > > Must be Mississippi State had a great week of practice, jumping over Michigan State despite neither team playing. Maybe the committee finally looked at Michigan St schedule and saw that they actually didn’t beat anyone in the Top 20. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-college-football-general-thread/696937.md?page=45)