# 2014 Sochi Olympic Winter Games **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985 "2014-02-10T17:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/221 "2014-02-23T18:44:08Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > I wouldn’t say that. They looked pretty lackluster during the early part of the tournament. They won, but they struggled against teams they should have beaten handily. It was only in the semifinals and finals that they seem to have gotten hot. > > Unfortunately, the US team is the polar opposite. It looked to me like they had the momentum going into the semifinals. But then they got beaten by Canada, and just totally collapsed against Finland. Granted I had the stress-free experience of watching those games already knowing the outcome, but I didn’t see that much struggle outside of struggling to beat streaky hot goaltenders with an abundance of quality scoring chances. Gudlevkis played an absolutely ridiculous game, turning what should have been a 6-1 game into a squeaker. Latvia had only a handful of legit scoring chances and their one goal came on a gimmick play. The game against the Finns was tight, but they were probably the 2nd best team in the tourney (might well have made the final if Rask hadn’t been too sick to play in the semi). Austria was a blowout, and Norway was the first time the guys played together. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/222 "2014-02-23T18:54:07Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > If the NHL pulls out of the Olympics, which is unfortunately sounding pretty likely, then the US (and Canada) are boned in 2014. Well, maybe not. Most of the other countries’ best players are in the NHL, too. People forget Canada won silver the last time NHL players WEREN’T (mostly) in the Olympics, finishing a penalty shot from gold - because the NHL was eating up all the good players from everywhere. Canada also won silver in 1992. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/223 "2014-02-23T20:12:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, maybe not. Most of the other countries’ best players are in the NHL, too. > > People forget Canada won silver the last time NHL players WEREN’T (mostly) in the Olympics, finishing a penalty shot from gold - because the NHL was eating up all the good players from everywhere. Canada also won silver in 1992. Yeah, but the Russian KHL has signed, and will continue to sign a lot of top-notch players. Canada will indeed be “boned” in the next Olympics if the NHL can’t come to an agreement. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/224 "2014-02-23T20:47:14Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yeah, but the Russian KHL has signed, and will continue to sign a lot of top-notch players. Canada will indeed be “boned” in the next Olympics if the NHL can’t come to an agreement. I’m not sure what percentage of top Russian players are in the KHL versus the NHL, but there’s still a lot of Russian talent playing in North America, it seems. The KHL is signing North American has-beens and never-weres and they’re succeeding; it cannot be THAT good a league. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/225 "2014-02-23T21:46:21Z")
Russians sweep the 50k! They must be going nuts. Miracle on Snow? Was hoping Noah H would end up better. A medal was probably unrealistic, but a top 10 seemed with reach. Brian ---
**Author:** ![jehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@jehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jehan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/226 "2014-02-24T00:15:35Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Anyone else find it amusing that Adelina was deemed not good enough to take a leg in the team competition, and wound up with gold in the singles event instead? > > USA split the long and short programs between our two top ladies skaters (Wagner and Gold) so they both leave Sochi with a bronze, at least. But Russia’s committee deliberately excluded Adelina from the team event, even though judging by rankings and ability, they must have realized they were taking a medal from around her neck. (Why be assholes?) > > Even Italy, where there’s a much larger difference between their #1 ladies skater (Carolina Kostner) and their #2 girl, they still let the #2 girl have the long program. A bit late to the party here, but out of the 4 events in the team competition, a team could only make a substitution in 2 of the events for the free program. Russia chose to substitute in the pairs and dance events (they could not substitute in the mens, as they had only one man qualify). Canada chose to substitute in the pairs and mens (As they were the first two events in the competition and the athletes had less time to rest and train before the single events. The US chose to substitute in the men (A good call, considering Jeremy Abbott’s performance), and the women. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/227 "2014-02-24T00:44:17Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I thought the U.S. was still potentially in it until about the third goal, in the third period. I was watching it on tape and started a lot of fast-forwarding at that point-- so did the U.S. players. > But The game was, overall, definitely closer than 5-0. U.S. missed two penalty shots, for instance. I’d probably make it 3-2 Finland if I was assigning goals on merit (not counting the second half of the third period, which was pretty much all garbage time). As an avid Pens fan, Dan f’n Bylsma happened. They dominated in the round robin using an aggressive forecheck against defensively weak teams (Pens during the regular season), then when they meet the first defensively stout team – when it finally counts – they changed up strategy to a passive forecheck, they didn’t make adjustments, and they used the most asinine and arrogant in-game roster decisions possible. Dan had home-ice last change substitution in both Canada and Finland games, and he decided to give the “visiting” coach the matchups they wanted – like Kessel vs. Toews – because Bylsma doesn’t _do_ matchups. Looked exactly like Pens and Bruins series in last years NHL playoffs. The stuff Parise and others said after the game were very subtly not kind to Dan, and there’s multiple reports that he lost the bench halfway through the Finland game and they started doing whatever they wanted. It sucks, too, because Bylsma could be one of the best coaches in hockey, but he simply never changes strategy, never adjusts, and never thinks he’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/228 "2014-02-24T01:51:38Z")
Bylsma’s coaching is being widely panned in the Canadian press. He’s normally out of the radar here, being in Pittsburgh, but your perception of him is essentially what observers here were amazed to see. He was horribly outcoached by Mike Babcock in the semifinal. I mean, it’s not easy to coach against the best defense ever put on ice and you can kind of understand that, but the team was completely lost in the bronze medal game, and that’s on coaching. What I found weird was that he seemed to abandon… well, \*to abandon the American style of hockey itself. \* American hockey is, traditionally, fast hockey, 200-foot hockey that places enormous emphasis on speed, unending movement, speed, more speed, and relentless aggression, and then some more speed. American-style hockey is a young man’s sport that tests the endurance of the opposition. Skate skate skate skate skate. The team I saw play Canada was nothing like that; they were weirdly tentative and didn’t seem to want to stretch the opposition out at all, despite being a team whose talents lay there. One writer called the Canada game “the largest margin of victory in the history of 1-0 games” - even at the end there seemed to be no urgency to score. Again, that’s against the mightiest D of all time, but Jesus, why weren’t they trying? Well, Jonathan Quick was trying. It should have been 4-0 but he was money. And they said so in the press; I can find quote after quote of players saying “we held back, we were passive.” Jesus, why? The Finland game was a travesty. It was more of the same but worse. I was baffled. I could not understand what they were trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/229 "2014-02-24T02:37:05Z")
On a larger note, now some people are criticizing the entire U.S. Olympic team: > **[U.S. officials defend team performance in Sochi](https://www.espn.com/olympics/winter/2014/story/_/id/10506104/2014-sochi-olympics-us-officials-defend-team-performance)** > > The speedskaters flopped, and the hockey team was blanked when it mattered most. If it wasn't for some brand new sports, the medal count would be paltry. I really do not understand this criticism, and I’m not even American: 1. While the U.S. overall performance was not as good as in Vancouver, that’s in large part because _Vancouver was either the best or second-best the USA has ever done,_ depending if you count by total medals or golds. 2. The criticism that “well, it’s because of new sports we won as many as we did” is absurd. That’s true of most countries. The article points out that Canada won more golds than the USA, but many Canadian golds were in events that have been recently introduced to the Olympics so how can you criticize that and then credit another country without accounting for the same thing? 3. The number of medals won in a winter Olympics is by its nature going to be quite variable. There aren’t that many events, and many of the new events are prone to weird and unpredictable results. 4. The USA does great in the Olympics. You have to consider ALL the Olympics; it’s silly to just look at Winter Games. The USA is almost always tops at the Summer Games. It stands to reason countries like the Netherlands, where they basically do one sport, or Norway or Canada will do unusually well at Winter Games, but are they beating American athletes at Summer Games? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/230 "2014-02-24T03:14:25Z")
That’s a weirdly whiny article. The only real standouts in the medal counts were (1) the utter Dutch domination of long track speed skating. I mean, they’re always dominant, but they took it to another level entirely in Sochi. The American speed skaters did truly suck and it’s not clear why, but (lack of) elevation might have something to do with it. And (2) the Canadian medal surge from Vancouver was mostly maintained, something that really wasn’t guaranteed. Other than that, the Russians got the usual home team boost on top of their typically strong performance, and Norway won umpty-seven medals in cross country and biathlon like they always do, I expect because Norwegian women give birth on skis and the infants have to learn to keep up if they want to suckle. No real surprises there. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/231 "2014-02-24T03:30:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Bylsma’s coaching is being widely panned in the Canadian press. He’s normally out of the radar here, being in Pittsburgh, but your perception of him is essentially what observers here were amazed to see. He was horribly outcoached by Mike Babcock in the semifinal. I mean, it’s not easy to coach against the best defense ever put on ice and you can kind of understand that, but the team was completely lost in the bronze medal game, and that’s on coaching. > > What I found weird was that he seemed to abandon… well, \*to abandon the American style of hockey itself. \* American hockey is, traditionally, fast hockey, 200-foot hockey that places enormous emphasis on speed, unending movement, speed, more speed, and relentless aggression, and then some more speed. American-style hockey is a young man’s sport that tests the endurance of the opposition. Skate skate skate skate skate. The team I saw play Canada was nothing like that; they were weirdly tentative and didn’t seem to want to stretch the opposition out at all, despite being a team whose talents lay there. One writer called the Canada game “the largest margin of victory in the history of 1-0 games” - even at the end there seemed to be no urgency to score. Again, that’s against the mightiest D of all time, but Jesus, why weren’t they trying? Well, Jonathan Quick was trying. It should have been 4-0 but he was money. > > And they said so in the press; I can find quote after quote of players saying “we held back, we were passive.” Jesus, why? > > The Finland game was a travesty. It was more of the same but worse. I was baffled. I could not understand what they were trying to do. And it’s weird because the majority in Pittsburgh still support him, even after 5 years of playoffs that end exactly like this Olympics for USA. It’s not _that_ they lose – Lord Stanley is one of the hardest trophies to win in all sports, for a reason – but that they just flame out, do dumb shit over and over, and never adapt, all the while wasting the prime years of two of this generations greatest players. Hopefully this brings national exposure to both Shero and Bylsma (Shero takes _no_ criticism for turning a Crosby/Malkin led team into Nashville North – grind the suckers down!) but somehow I doubt it will. And it was _incredible_ to see Crosby used effectively, for once. Even though he didn’t have the numbers, and even though they never quite figured out his winger situation, he was absolutely dominate in the two elimination games. He was everywhere, doing everything, and as the team got more comfortable with him he started to make those WTF passes that don’t even seem possible. His goal was gorgeous, where he poked checked it to himself in the defensive zone, blew past everyone in the neutral zone, and deked the King himself. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/232 "2014-02-24T03:37:16Z")
I think speed skating was a disappointment, only one medal (short track men’s relay) I was hoping (but not expecting) better in XC or Nordic Combined (hey, we got a medal before). Or women’s ski jumping. Alpine was OK, as well as sliding (bobsled and skeleton, luge not so much). 1st 2-man bobsled medal in 50+ years. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/233 "2014-02-24T14:15:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > On a larger note, now some people are criticizing the entire U.S. Olympic team: > > [2014 Sochi Olympics -- U.S. officials defend team performance - ESPN](http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2014/story/_/id/10506104/2014-sochi-olympics-us-officials-defend-team-performance) > > I really do not understand this criticism, and I’m not even American: > > 1. While the U.S. overall performance was not as good as in Vancouver, that’s in large part because _Vancouver was either the best or second-best the USA has ever done,_ depending if you count by total medals or golds. > > 2. The criticism that “well, it’s because of new sports we won as many as we did” is absurd. That’s true of most countries. The article points out that Canada won more golds than the USA, but many Canadian golds were in events that have been recently introduced to the Olympics so how can you criticize that and then credit another country without accounting for the same thing? > > 3. The number of medals won in a winter Olympics is by its nature going to be quite variable. There aren’t that many events, and many of the new events are prone to weird and unpredictable results. > > 4. The USA does great in the Olympics. You have to consider ALL the Olympics; it’s silly to just look at Winter Games. The USA is almost always tops at the Summer Games. It stands to reason countries like the Netherlands, where they basically do one sport, or Norway or Canada will do unusually well at Winter Games, but are they beating American athletes at Summer Games? Nope. Your points are well taken, but number 2 needs a bit of clarification. The article was specifically referring to brand-new sports, not to new-ish or relatively new ones. (Moguls has been around for twenty years, hasn’t it?) The Americans won five gold medals in events that did not exist in Vancouver–three of the four slopestyle events plus the two ski halfpipes. Take away those five and the country is left with just four gold medals–one in snowboard halfpipe, two in alpine skiing, and one in ice dancing. I don’t think any other country won more than two gold medals in events entirely new to these Games. Their totals would have been only marginally impacted. So if not for adding those the USA would have had a grand total of FOUR gold medals–that is, one fewer then Belarus. Think there wouldn’t have been calls for heads to roll with that result?? The mind boggles. And the powers that be in American Olympics are thanking their lucky stars for slopestyle and ski halfpipe– ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/234 "2014-02-24T15:48:35Z")
OTOH, if the new events weren’t added, there probably would have been more money available in the US Olympic budget for the Snowboard Slalom events, in which case Vic Wild might not have left for Russia, and those two golds might have belonged to the US. Too many “What Ifs” when you start changing the events around. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/235 "2014-02-24T17:04:33Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > OTOH, if the new events weren’t added, there probably would have been more money available in the US Olympic budget for the Snowboard Slalom events, in which case Vic Wild might not have left for Russia, and those two golds might have belonged to the US. Actually, Snowboard Slalom was a new event; they only had Giant Slalom in past Olympics. Even without the new events (and keep in mind that USA swept the podium in one of them), I doubt USA Skiing, which I assume was in charge of Olympic snowboarding, would have put money into snowboard slalom - does it put any money into halfpipe? I think the real problem is, there is no support from the public in the USA for “snowboard alpine.” Look at this year’s X-Games; the only snowboard events were Snowboarder X (which I think is another name for Snowboard Cross), Big Air, and halfpipe. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/236 "2014-02-24T17:28:19Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > OTOH, if the new events weren’t added, there probably would have been more money available in the US Olympic budget for the Snowboard Slalom events, in which case Vic Wild might not have left for Russia, and those two golds might have belonged to the US. > > Too many “What Ifs” when you start changing the events around. Only one of which was an older event. But ok …5 gold medals. Whee! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/237 "2014-02-24T17:33:26Z")
I think all the US winter sports resources should be thrown into one thing: the race for US Olympic gold in curling in 2018! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/238 "2014-02-24T18:00:07Z")
How much do the sports budgets come from the USOC and how much from their individual national associations or federations or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/239 "2014-02-24T18:28:31Z")
OK, what if heads do roll because of low medal counts? How do you change focus? I mean, if medal counts are what you want, then you have to focus on the medal-dense events. For the Winter games, that’s mostly cross-county/biathlon, and short-track/speed skating. I feel pretty confident that nothing in the US is going to make us more interested in the cross-country and biathlon events. And I’m pretty sure heads are already getting ready to roll within the US Speed Skating camp. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985/240 "2014-02-24T20:04:53Z")
Oh, I’m not arguing with you. (Though I’d add that alpine skiing and freestyle are pretty medal-dense as well.) I’m just pointing out that the handful of new events for 2014 changed the “narrative” for the US experience at Sochi. “Well, it was a pretty good Olympics for Team USA, all things considered”–that, the article linked by **RickJay** notwithstanding, seems to be the general consensus of what I’m reading. Without the medals provided by these new events, in which the US did disproportionately well and won a large number of golds, the narrative becomes “OMG we couldn’t even beat Belarus!” or “We’re number Twelve!” Big difference in how things are perceived. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2014-sochi-olympic-winter-games/680985.md?page=13)