# 2015 Hugo Award Nominees **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968 "2015-04-06T16:41:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/241 "2015-08-25T22:46:42Z")
[An interesting post by the authors of Dinosaur](http://amptoons.com/blog/2015/04/24/on-hugos-and-the-no-award-option/): > [@](#): > > Imagine a race that’s in two stages. In stage one, the athletes run an obstacle course, each in their own lane, leaping over hurdles. The athletes who make it through the obstacle course fastest then compete in a footrace to determine the winner. > > The Puppies noticed that there’s no rule explicitly forbidding spectators knocking down hurdles, and so they knocked down the hurdles in their favorite athlete’s lanes. And of course, those athletes ran the obstacle course the fastest. > > Now we’re at the start line of the second stage. And now the puppies are telling me that how these athletes ended up reaching the second stage of the race doesn’t matter. > > With all due respect, ARE YOU FRAKKING KIDDING ME? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/242 "2015-08-25T22:55:19Z")
I wouldn’t call it interesting. It’s yet another inept analogy rather than the actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/243 "2015-08-25T23:04:05Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I wouldn’t call it interesting. It’s yet another inept analogy rather than the actual facts. …says the guy who parrots the comparison of Dinosaur to Mouse. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/244 "2015-08-25T23:53:05Z")
I didn’t parrot anything. It was the first thing I thought of when I read it. The analogy is just as silly as ‘shat in the punchbowl’. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/245 "2015-08-25T23:55:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wow. I just read the comments on that story. They start in March 2013 and run overwhelmingly positive, like 90% gushing. > > Until Groundhog Day 2015. Then the haters come in, **en masse**. > > I wonder what happened around February 2015? Hmm? Hmm? > > Edit: as for the critics identifying too heavily with the attackers, that shows up pretty clearly in the comments. Some of the critics are livid that the author and other socialists dislike working-class people, while others suggest in oh-so-coy language that really it’d be a bunch of black guys who’d commit the crime. > > Yeah, I think it’s clear where the hate is coming from. I hadn’t read those comments, but they are disturbingly similar to those on Correia’s post linked to above. Imagine what the proverbial Martian anthropologist would make of the early comments vs. the later. I noticed that Jim van Pelt called it a poem. Very insightful guy. I admit that the story is not f&sf per se, but uses imagery associated with fantasy/sf to make a metaphorical point. I’ve done it myself in poetry. Those upset that a story not a “true” fantasy made the ballot might contemplate this: Damon Knight, the founder of SFWA, denounced people who put fantasy stories on the ballot because only “true” science fiction was legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/246 "2015-08-25T23:58:07Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I didn’t parrot anything. It was the first thing I thought of when I read it. Absolutely at this point I take everything you say at face value. It’s a lousy analogy based on the most superficial of readings, and doesn’t remotely rise to the level of criticism, as I said earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/247 "2015-08-26T00:04:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wow. I just read the comments on that story. They start in March 2013 and run overwhelmingly positive, like 90% gushing. > > Until Groundhog Day 2015. Then the haters come in, **en masse**. > > I wonder what happened around February 2015? Hmm? Hmm? > > Edit: as for the critics identifying too heavily with the attackers, that shows up pretty clearly in the comments. Some of the critics are livid that the author and other socialists dislike working-class people, while others suggest in oh-so-coy language that really it’d be a bunch of black guys who’d commit the crime. > > Yeah, I think it’s clear where the hate is coming from. …I have no idea what you’re getting at. Feb 2015? What happened then? I’m clearly missing your point. And I can assure you that I have no idea–and until you mentioned it, never once thought about–the race of the attackers or the victims. It was (to me) a dull prose-poem about a woman who’s boyfriend was beaten up and she daydreams. ETA: While (you’re right) that the hate does start around early Feb 2015, there’s one really thought-provoking comment “Think about this. It’s a story about a woman telling herself a science fiction story.”. Hmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/248 "2015-08-26T00:19:04Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I wouldn’t call it interesting. It’s yet another inept analogy rather than the actual facts. You’re missing my greater point about the fact that the Puppies have criticized **Dinosaur** as not being sci-fi/fantasy yet nominating **Parliament**. Whether you think it’s interesting or better than **Parliament** (it is), for the Puppies to deride it as not worthy of Hugo consideration because of genre then to turn around and nominate **Parliament** ludicrous. Just like the “A book with a spaceship should be space opera” and the “Sci-fi should be hard and non-political” arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/249 "2015-08-26T00:20:14Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > …I have no idea what you’re getting at. Feb 2015? What happened then? I’m clearly missing your point. It was around that time that the puppy brigade were gearing up. [Right before Groundhog Day, however, a right-wing blogger wrote a scathing review of the story](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/31/if-you-were-a-grown-up-my-love/). Turns out she [is one of the brigade herself](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/08/23/burning-down-the-field-in-order-to-save-it/). Quelle surprise! > [@](#): > > And I can assure you that I have no idea–and until you mentioned it, never once thought about–the race of the attackers or the victims. It was (to me) a dull prose-poem about a woman who’s boyfriend was beaten up and she daydreams. The author in her blog says she’d never thought about the attacker’s race, either, or about their class, and that the gin-soaked line was not intended to point at working class people. Which, OF COURSE it isn’t, despite the insane over-reading. What self-respecting redneck in the US goes anywhere near gin? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/250 "2015-08-26T00:25:03Z")
**Fenris** , in case I’m not being clear, I’m not saying that only a racist would hate the story. You’re welcome to hate the story for all the wrong reasons you want to, and that doesn’t make you a racist. But those comments on the story, goddamn, some of those people are really wearing it on their sleeves, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/251 "2015-08-26T01:08:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It was around that time that the puppy brigade were gearing up. [Right before Groundhog Day, however, a right-wing blogger wrote a scathing review of the story](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/31/if-you-were-a-grown-up-my-love/). Turns out she [is one of the brigade herself](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/08/23/burning-down-the-field-in-order-to-save-it/). Quelle surprise! AAAAhhhhh…I thought you were talking about nationally/internationally–and I didn’t think a Federal Judge temporarily halting Obama’s executive order on immigration was really all that relevant. 😉 > [@](#): > > The author in her blog says she’d never thought about the attacker’s race, either, or about their class, and that the gin-soaked line was not intended to point at working class people. Which, OF COURSE it isn’t, despite the insane over-reading. What self-respecting redneck in the US goes anywhere near gin? At least for a period, in the UK, gin did seem to mean “lower class”. See **1984** for an example. That said, that only occurred to me after the time that class/race had been brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/252 "2015-08-26T01:16:30Z")
Reno Nevada writes: \> More people attended Sasquan than any other Worldcon ever. I believe this is wrong. The only number I can find online for the attendance at Sasquan was somebody’s guess that it was about 5,000. The biggest Worldcons so far have been the 1984 in Los Angeles and the 2014 in London. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/253 "2015-08-26T01:19:21Z")
The Hugos have always had a fair bit of blurring around the edges of the genre. Basically, the criterion they use is that if something is enjoyed by a lot of science fiction fans, then it counts as science fiction. So yeah, some winners might not exactly be quite properly science fiction… but then, look up the 1969 winner for Best Dramatic Presentation. That’s _definitely_ not science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/254 "2015-08-26T01:26:46Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Again you get the facts wrong. Wright objected [AFTER the creators confirmed the relationship](http://web.archive.org/web/20141229160245/http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/12/the-perversion-of-a-legend/) So he’s an even bigger idiot and asshole (assidole? idiast?) that hitherto indicated. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/255 "2015-08-26T01:28:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …look up the 1969 winner for Best Dramatic Presentation. That’s _definitely_ not science fiction. I think you mean the 1970 award, which was given for “News Coverage of _Apollo 11_,” published in the year preceding. The 1969 presentation was to _2001: A Space Odyssey_. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/256 "2015-08-26T01:44:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It was around that time that the puppy brigade were gearing up. [Right before Groundhog Day, however, a right-wing blogger wrote a scathing review of the story](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/01/31/if-you-were-a-grown-up-my-love/). Turns out she [is one of the brigade herself](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/08/23/burning-down-the-field-in-order-to-save-it/). Quelle surprise! First time I’ve seen that. It’s almost compellingly insane, on the level of Timecube but in sentences. She would be perfect as a Doper. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/257 "2015-08-26T02:15:15Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > You “forgot” to show any of the Puppies urging anyone to vote for books they didn’t read. You didn’t read my post. The puppies solicited others _to tell them who to nominate_ (I spoke to one, and I know what that person selected for the ballot). Brad Torgerson took the suggestions. If he had read that book (and another that I’m pretty sure was solicited), why did he have to have someone tell him to nominate it? It means he either didn’t read it, or read it, didn’t think it was worth a nomination, and nominated it anyway. Also, given the time frame from when the nominations were solicited and when they were announced, he didn’t have _time_ to read them. It’s also quite clear that the Rabid Puppies slate was voted on by people who had not read the works. Again, there wasn’t enough time for them to read the entire slate. They voted for the works not on quality, not because it was the type of SF they like, but just because Vox Day told them to. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/258 "2015-08-26T02:30:25Z")
Re: “If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love.” Love it or hate it (I loved it and gave it three stars – the highest rating – on Tangent Online’s Recommended Reading list that year\*), that’s a side issue. The big issue is this: No one on the SP/RP clique has ever come up with any concrete examples of stories they think are ruining SF other than that one. I see that someone in the thread (not the SP/RP, who always avoid the issue) has now pointed to a second. So two stories out of the hundred or so that have been nominated for Hugos in the past 15 years. This is somehow a threat to the genre?\*\* :dubious: The Puppies are incapable of understanding that the voting was due to the fact that people _liked_ the stories they voted for. They can’t conceive of a world where anyone has any opinion other than theirs, and thus claim conspiracies. But ultimately their issue is that some stories they hated won award, and some they liked did not. Just like with every award ever given for anything. They remind me of Communists: trying to fit the square pegs of reality into the round holes of their misconception. \*I also gave three stars to Brad Torgerson’s “The Chaplain’s Legacy.” So what am I, a Social Justice Warrior or a Sad Puppy? Or maybe option 3, which the SPs and RPs don’t seem to think possible: someone who likes a great story. \*\*Not to mention all the popular works that won awards. As I pointed out, most of the best novel Hugos went to authors who are popular, but within the field and sometimes beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/259 "2015-08-26T02:38:38Z")
I have comments about many of the posts here, but there are two of them I want to address directly. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are lots of different kinds of racists – there are “I hate all [slur for black people] and they should all die/go away” racists; there are “I don’t hate black people but they are inferior” racists; there are “Not all black people are inferior, but most are” racists; there are “black people are fine and I have no problem with them as long as they act like white people” racists; and many, many more. Many of these types of racists (and maybe even most) wouldn’t really have a problem marrying a black person, as long as it was the ‘one of the good ones’ (or whatever). > > Whenever someone puts up a black friend/relative/spouse/etc. as supposed “proof” that they are not racists, it makes me suspect pretty strongly that they don’t really understand what racism is, beyond the “I hate all [racial slur] and they should die/go away” kind of racism. In the sixteen years I have been a member of this board this is the single most condescending comment I have ever read. Unfucking believable. So it is your position that a college educated African-American woman is too stupid to know that the person she has been married to for for over 21 years is racist? You said that with a straight face and then have the gall to say that the sad puppies are racist? Yeah no racism on your side, nope none whatsoever. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know if he’s a racist and I haven’t called him one. See above ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/260 "2015-08-26T02:47:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So I just checked. Cafe Society has approximately five billion threads in which people recommend science fiction novels. Do you know how many times you’ve recommended Chaplain’s War in a thread for book recommendations, instead of in a thread about the skeezy asshole who wrote it and his plan to fuck up the awards? > > Zero. > > Pardon me if I don’t take your recommendation here as any more persuasive than I take the Very Special Book Bomb that **this time** has books people should actually read. > > (Now, the Sad Puppy move at this point would be to go bump one of those threads to recommend Chaplain’s War and then say, “See? See? It’s a sincere recommendation!” Don’t even bother at this point. Nobody will be convinced.) I’ll address the rest of your drivel later, but I have to address this one special. Of the 5 billion threads here is CS how many of them are active since August 16, 2015? Why do I ask, you say? See that is the date I finished reading the book and posted a review on Amazon (go ahead check it is at 4.4 stars currently) Unlike the puppy haters I don’t give a book thumbs up or recommend it or against it until I have read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=14)