# 2015 Hugo Award Nominees **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968 "2015-04-06T16:41:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/261 "2015-08-26T03:04:03Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Unlike the puppy haters I don’t give a book thumbs up or recommend it or against it until I have read it. Since people on this very thread have posted about their dislike of the Puppy stories they have personally read, I’m going to ask: Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/262 "2015-08-26T04:18:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Rick View Post > > This is really funny since Larry Correia isn’t white, he is Hispanic > > The two are not mutually exclusive. According to the Federal Government he isn’t white he is Hispanic. Don’t argue with me, call your congresscritter. > [@astorian](#): > > I read very little science fiction or fantasy, and almost none of what I HAVE read is contemporary. So, I’m not entitled to an opinion as to the quality of the books that were up for consideration this year or the political arguments of either the Sad Puppies or their foes. > > I will merely ask a few questions: > > IQ1) IS there, in fact, a large and growing gap in the sci-fi world between what’s popular and what wins awards and critical acclaim? There certainly IS such a gap now when it comes to modern movies and movie awards (the public at large goes to see the new superhero movie at the multiplex, while the critics’ awards go to subtitled films about LBGT issues). That’s not necessarily a bad thing- I’d much rather see\*\*\* Avengers: Age of Ultron \*\*\* than anything currently at the local arthouse, but I don’t delude myself that it’s a cinematic masterpiece or a work of art. > IQ2) HAVE there, in fact, been any serious miscarriages of justice in the Hugo or Nebula voting based on politics? I honestly have no idea- ARE there any conservative writers who’ve been denied awards for their political views? ARE there any mediocre books that have won awards for their political stances only? Or are conservative sci-fi fans just whining about nothing? Science Fiction book sales are going down year over year, people on the sad puppies think it is because the story has gotten lost behind the message. The SP feel the most important thing is the story, not the message or the authors politics or sexual orientation. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > By urging people who have never even read the books, or had any real interest in science fiction to vote as a bloc for the nominees. It was legal and exploited a flaw in the system, but the effect is the same if someone bussed in thousands of Democratic voters, gave them housing, and registered them to vote in the district in order to elect a Democratic candidate. > > And, please, point to ten examples (other than “If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love”) of the type of story the Puppies are talking about that was nominated for a Hugo. I’m betting you can’t and you won’t. > > Finally, here’s a [neat analysis from Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/08/24/sad_puppies_at_the_hugo_awards_what_their_failure_tells_us_about_donald.html). Find one place where anyone from the sad puppies ever has said vote for THIS book without reading it first. I’ll wait, but I am not going to hold my breath. > [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by John C. Wright > > “Cousin! You ask why we are here? We are here to acclaim one of us to the kingship over the rest, now that Man is gone.” > > I… have never seen the word “acclaim” used that way, with a “to” clause. One should properly say, “We are here to acclaim one of us king.” (ETA: I’m not even sure that makes sense with the connotations of “acclaim,” but at least it doesn’t offend my sense of diction.) Fifteen seconds with the dictionary on my phone gave me this: acclaim verb used with object 1. to welcome or salute with shouts or sounds of joy and approval; applaud: _to acclaim the conquering heroes_ 2. to announce or proclaim with enthusiastic approval: _to acclaim the new king_ > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah: did you notice that these are suggestions **for a slate** , exactly the way I’m saying they SHOULDN’T make their suggestions going forward? The slate is exactly the way they exploited the loophole in the rules. If they don’t want their tactics to be the focus–if they want the focus to be on the books–stop using the slate tactic. So once again what loophole did they exploit? The sad puppies bought their own memberships with their own money read the books and voted for the ones they liked. The only two differences between us and the cool kids is 1. We did it in front of the curtain, instead of in the back room and 2. we are the wrong fans, because we are not TrueFans. So which part is the loop hole? Talking out what we like publicly or the fact that we are the wrong fans? > [@](#): > > Yeah, I catch both that that’s a Very Special Book Bomb (apparently the normal ones don’t ask people to read the books), and also that they’re asking people actually to read only because they got called out for not giving a shit about that piece of the puzzle. First off this is almost too stupid to reply to. “apparently the normal ones don’t ask people to read the books” Yeah Larry makes a habit of telling people to buy books by other authors and NOT read them. Cite that he got “called out for not giving a shit about that piece of the puzzle” put up or shut up. > [@Fenris](#): > > Of course he is. If you’re a Republican and (say) David Duke or whoever’s in charge of the Klan right now comes out in favor of your agenda, you damned well better distance yourself from him. > > Correia didn’t distance himself from Beale at all, except for weakass, pussy statements like (general quote) “I can’t control what Beale says” > > I don’t care that he’s married to a black woman, I care that he’s not willing to distance himself from the guy (Beale) who thinks black people are genetically sub-human. And given that Correia is married to a black woman, his fellating of Beale becomes that much more reprehensible. As has been mentioned Brad Torgersen is married to a African-American woman, not Larry Correia. If this is going to be your level of interest and involvement in this thread, may you should pass. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I thought it was Torgersen who was married to a black woman, though I’m the first to admit I don’t know any of these personalities at all. > > Still, you’re right in your larger point. Someone starts a movement they call “Wise Owls,” arguing in favor of “traditional woodcarving.” Someone else immediately joins that movement, then creates a spin-off called “Wicked Owls,” arguing in favor of “traditional woodcarving of Aryan themes.” The Wicked Owls gain more of a following. What should the Wise Owls do? Change their name (it’s a new movement, so the name is meaningless) and repudiate like a motherfuck. So you think that if a hamburger stand names [Tommy’s](http://www.originaltommys.com/) becomes popular and famous and a competitor starts a business call [Tommies](http://www.yelp.com/biz/tommies-hamburgers-northridge) that Tommy’s should change it’s name. Interesting business strategy. But no. Sad Puppies was around for 2 years before rabid puppies. > [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Larry Correia > > As you all know by now, the Hugo Awards were presented Saturday, and No Award dominated most of the categories. Rather than let any outsiders win, they burned their village in order to “save it”. And they did so while cheering, gloating, and generally being snide exclusive assholes about it. This year’s awards have an asterisk next to them. It was all about politics rather than the quality of the work. Even the pre-award show was a totally biased joke. In addition they changed the voting rules to make their archaic rules system even more convoluted in order to keep out future barbarian hordes. They gave as many No Awards this time as in the entire history of the awards. > > So, the Puppies are claiming “victory”, and are moreover claiming that any outcome at the Hugos would have been a “victory” for them. However, they are wrong. They lost, we won. Where exactly in Larry quote is he claiming “Victory”? > [@](#): > > Actually, you know what would be really funny? If Correia did his research, and talked to (and listened to) all the right people, and actually put all the best and most worthy works and people into his slate for nomination. That would be hysterical. Oh you mean he should listen the TrueFans, not us regular guys that don’t sit at the cool kids table. > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Did you read the Wired article? > > Maybe this is just braggadocio, but these are not the words of someone who is trying to get people to read books and nominate the ones they enjoy. And since it was his slate that carried the nominations, this is significant, I think. > > I’m not against giving the Puppies (well, not Beale, he’s a waste of skin) a fair hearing on their grievances, but it’s like trying to nail down jello. I’ve read a fair bit of pro- and anti- Puppy stuff, and I’m still not entirely sure what Correia is on about, besides the fact that he feels entitled to an award on account of selling really well, and he’s upset that he won’t get it because he’s pissed a bunch of people off. Larry’s website is down for maintenance right now, so I can’t quote it, but he turned down the nomination this year and has publicly stated that he will not accept a nomination in the future. > [@Amara\_1](#): > > Scalzi has also said that, while legal, it’s an [asshole](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/08/24/being-a-jerk-about-the-hugos-not-as-effective-a-strategy-as-you-might-think/) tactic. [Scalzi](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/04/04/a-note-about-the-hugo-nominations-this-year/) has also pointed out that the use of “No Award” is similarly a legal tactic. George R R Martin further [notes](http://grrm.livejournal.com/418643.html) Yeah the guy with 4 Hugos sees no problem with the system. In other news, water is wet. As I have said before Scalzi has done the same thing, as as Tor books. It is only wrong when the wrong fans do it. > [@](#): > > The problem with this is that Brad’s “nomination” list has very little correlation with the slate(s). Larry Correia ["]states]([SAD PUPPIES 3: The Slatening? | Monster Hunter Nation](http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/02/sad-puppies-3-the-slatening/)[/URL) that the final slate was chosen by the > It’s hard to believe but this group call themselves the Evil League of Evil. And who are ELOE? I’ll let John C. Wright [speak](http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/06/the-evil-league-of-evil-is-given-pious-advice/) > > Sarah Hoyt, Correia & Vox all reference the ELOE in different posts. So the final slate was picked by a small group with Vox Day being an integral part of the group. Sigh, so you can’t recognize sarcasm when you see it. It’s a pity really. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/263 "2015-08-26T04:20:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Since people on this very thread have posted about their dislike of the Puppy stories they have personally read, I’m going to ask: > > Cite? Really? You don’t think I can dig them up? Seriously? It’s time I head to bed, but I will be happy to supply with them tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/264 "2015-08-26T04:25:38Z")
If liberal/progressives are overrepresented in the science fiction field it would not surprise me any more than it would surprise me if conservatives are overrepresented in the field of historical novels. (Looking forward as opposed to looking back.) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/265 "2015-08-26T04:58:45Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Find one place where anyone from the sad puppies ever has said vote for THIS book without reading it first. I’ll wait, but I am not going to hold my breath. How else can one read this? > [@](#): > > Going forward, [Beale] said, no matter how the Hugo administrators modify the nominating process to try to prevent manipulation (and there are two proposals being considered), he will still have enough supporters to control future awards. Specifically, “I have 390 sworn and numbered vile faceless minions—the hardcore shock troops—who are sworn to mindless and perfect obedience,” he said, acknowledging that his army wasn’t made up solely of sci-fi fans. On the contrary, “the people who are very anti-SJW said, ‘Okay, we want to get in on this.’” When I asked him how he might deploy those people in the future, he continued, “It’s very simple. The dark lord speaks, the minion acts.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/266 "2015-08-26T09:07:21Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I have comments about many of the posts here, but there are two of them I want to address directly. > In the sixteen years I have been a member of this board this is the single most condescending comment I have ever read. Unfucking believable. So it is your position that a college educated African-American woman is too stupid to know that the person she has been married to for for over 21 years is racist? You said that with a straight face and then have the gall to say that the sad puppies are racist? Yeah no racism on your side, nope none whatsoever. > > See above When did I say the Sad Puppies, or anyone besides Beale, was a racist? As for the author’s wife, I take no position on her intelligence; I know nothing about her. I’m just pointing out the weakness and pointlessness of trying to “prove” one is not a racist with a black wife. That tells us very little about someone’s view of race. I’m in an interracial marriage too, by the way. It doesn’t mean I’m not a racist. I strive to not be a racist, but in my view no one can truly know for sure if they have any racist thoughts or beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/267 "2015-08-26T10:01:47Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > According to the Federal Government he isn’t white he is Hispanic. Don’t argue with me, call your congresscritter. That’ll be hard… and [anyway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Definitions_in_the_United_States): > [@](#): > > The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to “a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race” and **states that Hispanics or Latinos can be of any race** , any ancestry, any ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/268 "2015-08-26T10:03:15Z")
Veteran game and puzzle designer Mike Selinker [on what he’d do](http://selinker.tumblr.com/post/127539574268/a-game-designer-tries-to-fix-the-hugo-awards). Oh, and a reminder that racism doesn’t exclusively mean “doesn’t like black people.” ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_mel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@Cara\_mel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cara_mel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/269 "2015-08-26T11:28:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’ll be hard… > > and [anyway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Definitions_in_the_United_States): Doesn’t matter, **MrDibble**. For the sake of this argument, Hispanic is regarded as a minority in the USA, therefore Larry Correia cannot be labelled as an “old white guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/270 "2015-08-26T11:37:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When did I say the Sad Puppies, or anyone besides Beale, was a racist? As for the author’s wife, I take no position on her intelligence; I know nothing about her. I’m just pointing out the weakness and pointlessness of trying to “prove” one is not a racist with a black wife. That tells us very little about someone’s view of race. > > I’m in an interracial marriage too, by the way. It doesn’t mean I’m not a racist. I strive to not be a racist, but in my view no one can truly know for sure if they have any racist thoughts or beliefs. Logically speaking, seeing as plenty of misogynists are married to women, I don’t see why it would be so strange if some racists were married to people of different races. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/271 "2015-08-26T11:39:29Z")
> [@Cara\_mel](#): > > Doesn’t matter, **MrDibble**. For the sake of this argument, Hispanic is regarded as a minority in the USA, therefore Larry Correia cannot be labelled as an “old white guy.” The tangent started with this: > [@Rick](#): > > Want proof? The Anti Puppies said loud and long that the SPs are nothing but a bunch of old white guys wanting things back the way they were. This is really funny since Larry Correia isn’t white, he is Hispanic. Since Rick is addressing a straw man, a dumbed-down version of the actual complaints against the puppy brigade, it doesn’t particularly matter, IMO, that he’s wrong about how ethnicity and race interact, either. > [@Rick](#): > > Find one place where anyone from the sad puppies ever has said vote for THIS book without reading it first. I’ll wait, but I am not going to hold my breath. This is absurd. They told people to vote for exactly the same slate. Their entire modus depended on everyone voting for exactly the same slate. This is anathema to the idea of everyone voting for the people they genuinely think are deserving. You’re playing, “I’m not touching you!” expecting that because they never technically said, “Vote for people you haven’t read,” we can’t figure out what the intended effect would be. > [@](#): > > So once again what loophole did they exploit? The sad puppies bought their own memberships with their own money read the books and voted for the ones they liked. The only two differences between us and the cool kids is 1. We did it in front of the curtain, instead of in the back room and 2. we are the wrong fans, because we are not TrueFans. So which part is the loop hole? Talking out what we like publicly or the fact that we are the wrong fans? I encourage you to learn to count to 1. Encouraging people to vote for **exactly** the same full slate, so that not only would some of their preferred people make the short list, but nobody else’s preferred people would make the shortlist. They tried to guarantee a win for one of their people, no matter what the majority of fans would like, by preventing people from voting for anyone but one of their people in the final round. That loophole. > [@](#): > > First off this is almost too stupid to reply to. “apparently the normal ones don’t ask people to read the books” Yeah Larry makes a habit of telling people to buy books by other authors and NOT read them. Cite that he got “called out for not giving a shit about that piece of the puzzle” put up or shut up. Are you shitting me? Cite that people have complained about him not caring whether voters are familiar with the works they vote for? Have you read this thread, for starters? > [@Rick](#): > > I’ll address the rest of your drivel later, but I have to address this one special. Of the 5 billion threads here is CS how many of them are active since August 16, 2015? Why do I ask, you say? > See that is the date I finished reading the book and posted a review on Amazon (go ahead check it is at 4.4 stars currently) > Unlike the puppy haters I don’t give a book thumbs up or recommend it or against it until I have read it. Yeah, okay. I’m not taking book recommendations from this thread for one of the skeezy assholes who tried to ruin the Hugos this year. Make the recommendation elsewhere, and I’ll consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/272 "2015-08-26T11:53:24Z")
Rick, apparently you identify as a Sad Puppy. Did you nominate for the 2015 Hugos, and did you nominate the SP’s slate in lockstep with them? If you nominated the SP’s slate, or believe what they did was right, can you honestly say that there was _nothing else_ published in the SFF genre from 2014 that you enjoyed more and also might be worthy of a Hugo? This is what the Puppies asked their followers to claim with their nominations. IMHO, they had their followers lie to the rest of the Worldcon. The rest of fandom reared up and said, “Hell with that shit.” As soon as I heard about the upswell in supporting memberships to Sasquan, I knew what was going to happen. The analogy of the obstacle/footrace is an excellent one. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/273 "2015-08-26T12:38:25Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > As has been mentioned Brad Torgersen is married to a African-American woman, not Larry Correia. If this is going to be your level of interest and involvement in this thread, may you should pass. Nice job dealing with the substance of the comment–one of the two heads of the Sad Puppies is married to a black woman but still won’t denounce his buddy who’s saying his wife is sub-human–THAT is the point, not which one of the flunkies is interracially married. If this is going to be your level of intellectual honesty in this thread, maybe you should give it a pass. Also, earlier, you wrote “MC David what’s his face told people not to boo” That would be “David Gerrold”: Hugo winner, Star Trek writer, etc. So, if that’s your standard for discussion, you fail. And as someone said, “If this is going to be your level of interest and involvement in this thread, may[be] you should pass.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/274 "2015-08-26T12:50:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’ll be hard… > > and [anyway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic#Definitions_in_the_United_States): From the EEOC definition of minority > [@](#): > > Minority: The smaller part of a group. A group within a country or state that differs in race, religion or national origin from the dominant group. According to EEOC guidelines, minority is used to mean four particular groups who share a race, color or national origin. > > These groups are: > American Indian or Alaskan Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North America, and who maintain their culture through a tribe or community. > Asian or Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original people of the Far East, Southeast Asia, India, or the Pacific Islands. These areas include, for example, China, India, Korea, the Philippine Islands, and Samoa. > Black (except Hispanic). A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. > **Hispanic. A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.** > The many peoples with origins in Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East make up the dominant white population. Of course, many more minority groups can be identified in the American population. However, they are not classified separately as minorities under EEO law. It should be noted that women are not classified as a minority. However, they have experienced the same kind of systematic exclusion from the economy as the various minorities. Thus, they are considered as having “minority status” as far as the law is concerned. He is a minority by the federal government ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/275 "2015-08-26T12:52:23Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > From the EEOC definition of minority > > He is a minority by the federal government So what? You were attacking a straw man anyway. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/276 "2015-08-26T14:11:25Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > According to the Federal Government he isn’t white he is Hispanic. Don’t argue with me, call your congresscritter. Not really, no. Correia is of Portuguese descent, and has claimed that he discovered when filling out EEOC forms that the Department of Labor considers people of Portuguese descent to be Latino. However, the US Census, folliwing Office of Management and Budget guidelines, [does not consider Portuguese to be Hispanic](http://portuguese-american-journal.com/disclaimer-us-census-bureau-will-not-classify-portuguese-as-hispanic-update/). Correia is merely attempting a cargo-cult version of identity politics. > [@](#): > > Science Fiction book sales are going down year over year, people on the sad puppies think it is because the story has gotten lost behind the message. The SP feel the most important thing is the story, not the message or the authors politics or sexual orientation. Again, when the SP slate included, for Best Novella, one story by Tom Kratman and _three_ by John C. Wright, the above is shown to be just so much disingenuous bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/277 "2015-08-26T14:26:13Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > From the EEOC definition of minority > > He is a minority by the federal government If he _were_ Hispanic (which, apparently, he isn’t), he could _still_ be an old White guy - _and_ a minority. Like I originally said, the two terms aren’t mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/278 "2015-08-26T15:14:54Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Yeah the guy with 4 Hugos sees no problem with the system. In other news, water is wet. As I have said before Scalzi has done the same thing, as as Tor books. It is only wrong when the wrong fans do it. You’re moving goalposts quite widely here. Your points were that slates were legal and had been done before. You first stated that Scalzi thought that slating was a legal tactic. I pointed out that a) Scalzi said it was legal but a dick move and b) it is ALSO legal to vote “No Award”. I further pointed out that there was historical precedent for Worldcon voters to put slated works below, “No Award”. I then gave a history of campaigning for the Hugos to show that the pup slates were unprecedented. And your response was to ignore all of that to snark on GRRM?? If you are so convinced that you are right, can you cite other slates? And by slates, I mean suggested nominations that fit the ballot size and asked to vote in lockstep. > [@](#): > > Sigh, so you can’t recognize sarcasm when you see it. It’s a pity really. Where’s the sarcasm? Those folks refer to themselves over and over as members of the ELOE. The **fact** is that Correia stated that he and Vox were instrumental in picking the slate. Unless you’re calling him a liar. If you disagree, please point out how the slate nominees were picked. And you missed my question regarding why you believe that 20% (this is the total for both pup factions) of voters should somehow win the awards. I disagree that the pup factions were separate but if you want to draw a very artificial distinction then the sad pups were 10% of the voters. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/279 "2015-08-26T16:32:49Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So you think that if a hamburger stand names [Tommy’s](http://www.originaltommys.com/) becomes popular and famous and a competitor starts a business call [Tommies](http://www.yelp.com/biz/tommies-hamburgers-northridge) that Tommy’s should change it’s name. Interesting business strategy. But no. Sad Puppies was around for 2 years before rabid puppies. If “Tommies” becomes more known, more successful, and is associated with white supremacists? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/280 "2015-08-26T16:55:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If “Tommies” becomes more known, more successful, and is associated with white supremacists? Yes. And, most importantly, “Tommy’s” must not hang out with, speak nicely about, or otherwise promote “Tommies” in their white supremacist pursuits. Because if they do? Then they are deservedly associated with all of “Tommies” baggage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=15)