# 2015 Hugo Award Nominees **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968 "2015-04-06T16:41:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/301 "2015-08-27T00:13:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Rick > > Find one place where anyone from the sad puppies ever has said vote for THIS book without reading it first. I’ll wait, but I am not going to hold my breath. > > How else can one read this? > > > [@](#): > > > > Going forward, [Beale] said, no matter how the Hugo administrators modify the nominating process to try to prevent manipulation (and there are two proposals being considered), he will still have enough supporters to control future awards. Specifically, “I have 390 sworn and numbered vile faceless minions—the hardcore shock troops—who are sworn to mindless and perfect obedience,” he said, acknowledging that his army wasn’t made up solely of sci-fi fans. On the contrary, “the people who are very anti-SJW said, ‘Okay, we want to get in on this.’” When I asked him how he might deploy those people in the future, he continued, “It’s very simple. The dark lord speaks, the minion acts.” OK One last time with feeling. Beale (VOX Day) is not part of the sad puppies. Here read it from the [International Lord of Hate](http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/16/im-not-vox-day/) himself > [@](#): > > I have repeated this stuff dozens of times, but apparently I need to repeat it again. > > The Sad Puppies 3 campaign is a separate and different entity than the Rabid Puppies campaign. > > I started Sad Puppies a few years ago. My goal was to demonstrate that the awards were biased, represented the likes of only one small part of fandom, and that authors with the wrong politics who got on the ballot would be attacked. All of that has been demonstrated rather conclusively. > > Brad Torgersen ran Sad Puppies 3, and I was one of the people who helped. The mission changed, and Brad’s main goal was to get deserving, worthy authors who would normally be ignored onto the ballot, regardless of their politics. > > Vox Day ran a separate campaign called Rabid Puppies. > > I believe that RP started with most of existing SP3 suggested slate, and then added more works that they liked. But I can’t speak for them. So thanks, for playing, here is your parting gift. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Since people on this very thread have posted about their dislike of the Puppy stories they have personally read, I’m going to ask: > > Cite? No problem. Would [www.noaward.com](http://www.noaward.com) do? > [@](#): > > How to Vote “No Award” in the 2015 Hugo Awards > > So that Good Triumphs over Evil or maybe this tweet > [@](#): > > Bob Snyder ‏@fordan May 19 > > Trying to avoid Puppy slates and some publishers providing only excerpts is making #Hugo Award voting much simpler! #noaward @TheHugoAwards ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/302 "2015-08-27T00:32:29Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > OK One last time with feeling. Beale (VOX Day) is not part of the sad puppies. No, he’s the head of the Rapid Puppies, the faction that was supposed to vote in lockstep and which - NOT the Sad Puppies - indeed got their slate onto the ballot. The force behind Castalia House, which name you see all over the ballot. The public face of the Puppy movement. That’s Theodore Beale: bigot, sexist, homophobe, one of the worst human beings on earth. Except for, possibly, his minions. That’s the person you and emarkp keep somehow managing to keep out of the conversation. Your own personal Stalin. > [@](#): > > No problem. Would [www.noaward.com](http://www.noaward.com) do? No, it absolutely will not do. If you had bothered to read it, you would have seen this: > [@](#): > > Summary: > > ``` > If you dislike everything on the ballot equally, vote No Award 1 and leave the rest blank. > > If you like some and dislike everything else equally, rank your favorites in preference order, then No Award, then leave the rest blank. > > If you like some candidates, dislike the others, but want to influence the relative placement of the works you dislike, then mark the candidates you like, then No Award, then the ones you dislike. > > ``` Not one word about not reading the nominations. Quite the contrary. They are instructions what to do _after you have read the nominations_. For the rest of you, here’s how disgusting the Sad Puppies were. Lou Antonelli, a definite Puppy, wrote “a letter to the Police Department of Spokane, Washington, telling them to be on the lookout for someone who may incite violence — Sasquan guest of honor David Gerrold.” This was _before_ the convention. Yes, he did. [He really, really did.](http://file770.com/?p=24256) ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/303 "2015-08-27T01:02:32Z")
[Vox Day’s involvement in the Sad Puppies slate](https://naomikritzer.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/vox-days-involvement-in-the-sad-puppies-slate/) > [@](#): > > Sarah Hoyt has also [posted about the ELoE](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2014/08/03/friendly-fire-in-the-science-fiction-wars/), and made it rather clear that she’s not entirely thrilled to be associated with VD, but also made it clear he’s a member: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Now, The Banished One is entitled to having whatever views he wants to have, and I’m the last person alive to say he must have mine or he can’t be a science fiction writer. (And it’s entirely possible he’s right and I’m wrong. I don’t think so, but we’re all colored by our past and our upbringing.) I’m just saying his blog rubs me wrong so often I haven’t done more than dip in and look at this or that when it relates to sf/me. … As for the rest of the ELoE, John C. Wright is more socially conservative than I am, but I don’t think he attempts to impose it except by proselytizing which is within permissible means. And Larry and I just want to write stories, make money and have fun. Sure, his view of government leaks into his books. And it leaks into my science fiction. But that’s because things written by someone tend to reflect that person’s opinion. > > > > ``` > > Brad Torgersen’s thoughts on VD are also worth noting, because when the subject of Larry Correia comes up [he says](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/sad-puppies-some-responses-to-the-fallout/), “Larry Correia is my blood brother. … I see this man (in the flesh) all the time. I know his wife and his family. I can think of no one I would want more (in my fox hole) when the chips are down and the bullets are flying. Be they real, or rhetorical, bullets.” Regarding Vox Day, on the other hand, he posted a [lengthy and spirited defense](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/shunning-and-radioactivity/) of [Geek Social Fallacy #1](http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html)(“Ostracizers are evil.”) > > Brad Torgersen was the person who publicly initiated, assembled, and promoted the Sad Puppies 3 slate, and there are a lot of people claiming that it represents no one but Brad, that it’s just “stuff Brad likes,” based on suggestions from [the people in his comment thread back in January, when he announced he was doing this](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/01/07/announcing-sad-puppies-3/) (though it’s worth noting that the people in that thread came up with maybe 25% of what actually went on his slate). > > But if you read Larry Correia’s journal you’ll get a rather different impression of how this shook out. > > From [February, when the slate was first announced:](http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/02/sad-puppies-3-the-slatening/) > > > [@](#): > > > > Here is our suggested slate! Brad Torgersen is this year’s banner carrier in our ongoing war against Puppy Related Sadness. Now that the registrations for memberships to nominate for the Hugo are closed, **here is what the Evil League of Evil authors came up with in discussion**. Here is the list, and I’ll talk about the philosophy/strategy below. > > > > [list omitted to save space] > > > > Now let’s talk STRATEGIC Puppies. > > These are my suggested nominations. I am under no delusions that you guys do exactly what I suggest. (seriously, it is like herding cats!). But I would encourage you to take a look at these, and consider nominating all of them. \*\*Everybody up there is someone who the ELoE talked about. \*\*Many of these are deserving, worthy types, who would basically be ignored because they don’t appease the SJW clique. > > (Boldface mine.) > > And in an [update post:](http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/02/09/sad-puppies-3-update/) > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > We made an effort to contact everyone we put on beforehand to warn them what was coming. Apparently we missed two of these. One was added the day we put up the suggestions because a couple of posters pointed them out, and they truly are excellent and talented, but we’d forgotten about them during our initial brainstorming. > > > > I can’t blame them for dropping out. And none of you should either. **The ELoE talked about this a lot before putting together a slate.** They have all personally experienced what happens when you draw the SJW contingent’s wrath. It isn’t pretty. > > > > ``` > > (Boldface mine, again) > > In the same post he talks about VD: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > He’s not even on the Sad Puppies slate this year, but he still lives rent free in their heads. > > > > Last year I liked a story written by a guy SJWs think is racist. Could a comment made a few years ago by Vox Day to Nora Jemisin be seen as racist? Yep. Has Nora Jemisin said a whole bunch of racist things herself leading up to that and then a bunch after? Yep. > > > > ``` > > I find it consistently interesting how invested Correia and Wright are in minimizing the objections to VD. There is an amazingly long list of positions VD has taken that are way outside the bounds of civilized discourse. There’s a lot of ground where I think reasonable people can disagree, but “should we educate girls” is not actually one of them, nor “is it okay for a husband to force his wife to have sex with him against her will” or “what exactly are the advantages of acid attacks on women?” > > Finally, I just want to note that when Brad Torgersen posted the slate, he said: > > > [@](#): > > > > And here it is! After much combobulating, the official SAD PUPPIES 3 slate is assembled! As noted earlier in the year, the SAD PUPPIES 3 list is a recommendation. Not an absolute. Gathered here is the best list ( **we think!** ) of entirely deserving works, writers, and editors — all of whom would not otherwise find themselves on the Hugo ballot without some extra oomph received from beyond the rarefied, insular halls of 21st century Worldcon “fandom.” > > (Boldface mine, again.) > > We. > > So, hey. Obviously, whatever else the ELoE is, it’s an informal organization; it’s partly an in-joke and an amusing self-chosen nickname for a clique of friends. But here’s what I feel pretty confident about: > > 1. This particular Evil League of Evil is Larry Correia, John C. Wright, Sarah Hoyt, and Vox Day. When Larry Correia talks about the ELoE, he doesn’t use the term like it’s a joke; he uses it as a straightforward shorthand for his clique. Vox Day is a member of the clique. In fact, the origination of the name for the clique came out of an indignant rejection of the idea that Wright might consider distancing himself from VD. > > 2. Larry Correia said that the ELoE discussed and “came up with” the names and works on the SP slate. > > 3. Larry Correia said that that VD “isn’t even on the slate” but I did not see anywhere that he said that VD had nothing to do with choosing the slate, and if he made that claim at this point, I guess I’d like him to unpack his previous statements about the ELoE’s involvement. > > I mean — I’m totally willing to believe that the final say here was Brad Torgersen’s, and the ELoE was acting entirely in an advisory capacity, suggesting fan writers and pro artists Brad might not have thought about and no one on his suggestions thread mentioned. > > But what I’m not willing to believe, given that collection of posts, was that Vox Day had _nothing whatsoever to do_ with the Sad Puppies slate. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/304 "2015-08-27T01:05:51Z")
Interesting article: > **[The scifi fans are alright: I saw the future at the Hugo Awards — and it will...](https://www.salon.com/2015/08/26/the_scifi_fans_are_alright_i_saw_the_future_at_the_hugo_awards_and_it_will_never_belong_to_the_toxic_right_wing_trolls/)** > > Online hate campaigns like Sad Puppies aren't harmless—but when we gather in person, their powers fizzle out ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/305 "2015-08-27T01:07:47Z")
On and this one that I can’t link to directly but if you go[here](https://twitter.com/hashtag/noaward?f=images&vertical=default) and scroll down past the top it will appear > [@](#): > > Mary Robbinette Kowel @maryrobinette "between me anonymous donors, @shimmerstories, @eklages, & @ jamietr that’s SEVENTY supporting memberships This on is fascinating on a couple of levels. First off, buying memberships for other people is supposed to be illegal (rule from when the Scientology tried to get L Ron a Hugo) It shows the anti puppies did the same thing as the puppies (got new people to join) but they didn’t ask the people to read the books first. However bringing new people in to World Con is only bad when the puppies do it. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/306 "2015-08-27T01:27:53Z")
One problem with books being pushed (by anybody) for specific content rather than objective merit (whatever that is) is that someone can get some mileage simply by having his cover say “Hugo Award Nominee”. If people buy it and think it’s crap, then they’ll think “Gee, if this got a nomination and it’s crap, what about the books that didn’t even get nominated. They must really be crap.” And the whole genre suffers. In fact, someone who lost to “No Award” could probably get away with saying that the judges decided that nothing was better than his novel!🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/307 "2015-08-27T01:46:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > On and this one that I can’t link to directly but if you go[here](https://twitter.com/hashtag/noaward?f=images&vertical=default) and scroll down past the top it will appear > This on is fascinating on a couple of levels. First off, buying memberships for other people is supposed to be illegal (rule from when the Scientology tried to get L Ron a Hugo) > It shows the anti puppies did the same thing as the puppies (got new people to join) but they didn’t ask the people to read the books first. > However bringing new people in to World Con is only bad when the puppies do it. No, it doesn’t show anything at all. It’s a line taken out of context and made meaningless. BTW, Why are you still avoiding the topic of Ted Beale? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/308 "2015-08-27T02:06:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > No, it doesn’t show anything at all. It’s a line taken out of context and made meaningless. > > BTW, Why are you still avoiding the topic of Ted Beale? Scroll up, I addressed that in post 301 Beale is not a sad puppy. No matter what pretzel logic you use he isn’t part of it. Sad does not equal rabid. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/309 "2015-08-27T02:23:31Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Scroll up, I addressed that in post 301 Beale is not a sad puppy. No matter what pretzel logic you use he isn’t part of it. Sad does not equal rabid. If the Westboro Baptist Church had taken over your totally principled denunciation of homosexuality you couldn’t get away with ignoring their presence when every outsider looked at the situation and vomited. There are not two groups of Puppies. There is one consolidated Puppyness, with Ted Beale the Alpha Dog. You own him. Nothing you ever do can be outside his shadow. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/310 "2015-08-27T02:31:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Scroll up, I addressed that in post 301 Beale is not a sad puppy. No matter what pretzel logic you use he isn’t part of it. Sad does not equal rabid. [Puppies in Their Own Words](http://www.jimchines.com/2015/06/puppies-in-their-own-words/) > [@](#): > > **Evolution of the Sad Puppies III Slate** : A number of folks have asked exactly how the slate was put together in 2015. Brad mentions soliciting suggestions, and said, “I’ve had a great many very good suggestions, and I am mulling the potential list now.” ([Source](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/why-sad-puppies-3-is-going-to-destroy-science-fiction/)) > > [The final slate](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/sad-puppies-3-the-2015-hugo-slate/) was announced on his blog on February 1, noting, “If you agree with our slate below — and we suspect you might — this is YOUR chance to make sure YOUR voice is heard.” > > So who made the final decision in this process? One commenter on Brad’s site [noted](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/sad-puppies-3-the-2015-hugo-slate/#comment-7369): > > > [@](#): > > > > “This list was generated by Brad Torgersen, Larry Correia, and a few other authors. Their fans have been suggesting various works, but, ultimately, the decision of which works to include was solely that of the participating authors.” > > This was neither confirmed nor denied by Brad, who [claims](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/sad-puppies-some-responses-to-the-fallout/), “SP3 is not a same-minded collective. We’ve actually had a tremendous amount of internal debate about how to proceed.” But who the “SP3 Brain Trust” includes is never clarified. Brad mentions only Larry Correia and Vox Day in that same post. > > Unlike the prior two years, Sad Puppies III presented a relatively full slate, with four or five nominees in most categories. While Torgersen suggests this list was a democratic group decision, [a spreadsheet posted on Google docs](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KsUUULAR4McYiosUfFT1lr9IRnJgYabSuX6qgSEs19s/edit#gid=0) suggests that most of the Sad Puppy candidates were not mentioned at all in the brainstorming blog posts, and were either suggested by other means, or else were the personal choices of Brad, Larry, and Vox. Vox Day may have also gone on to run his own campaign, but he absolutely _was_ involved in SP3, and right from the very beginning, too, helping to pick the works that would appear on the slate. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/311 "2015-08-27T02:44:47Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Emphasis added. From [here](http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/02/03/she-said-im-tired-of-the-war/). Which I found wile looking for the trigger of the bile on **Dinosaur**. Which comes from February 3, 2015 over a month before the nomination closed and the puppies were soliciting suggestions. Even with your pretzel logic, you can’t call that a suggestion to vote for a Hugo on a book since it had not even been nominated yet. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The tangent started with this: > Since Rick is addressing a straw man, a dumbed-down version of the actual complaints against the puppy brigade, it doesn’t particularly matter, IMO, that he’s wrong about how ethnicity and race interact, either. > > This is absurd. They told people to vote for exactly the same slate. Their entire modus depended on everyone voting for exactly the same slate. This is anathema to the idea of everyone voting for the people they genuinely think are deserving. You’re playing, “I’m not touching you!” expecting that because they never technically said, “Vote for people you haven’t read,” we can’t figure out what the intended effect would be. > > I encourage you to learn to count to > > 1. Encouraging people to vote for **exactly** the same full slate, so that not only would some of their preferred people make the short list, but nobody else’s preferred people would make the shortlist. They tried to guarantee a win for one of their people, no matter what the majority of fans would like, by preventing people from voting for anyone but one of their people in the final round. That loophole. There are five nominations in a category. The puppies say read the books and vote for the ones you like, now for the sake of argument lets say there are 100 puppies and they evenly split on what is the best book. So each of the five books gets 20% of the puppy vote. How in the fuck is that a slate? A slate is where someone says vote for book A short story B and so on so all 100 sad puppy votes go to the same person to try and get them to win. A slate is where you start a website to tell and instruct people on how vote no award. > [@](#): > > Are you shitting me? Cite that people have complained about him not caring whether voters are familiar with the works they vote for? Have you read this thread, for starters? Ah, the old my post is my cite. Yeah the same people that have to date not found anywhere where any of the sad puppies ever said don’t read the book, but vote this way. > [@](#): > > Yeah, okay. I’m not taking book recommendations from this thread for one of the skeezy assholes who tried to ruin the Hugos this year. Make the recommendation elsewhere, and I’ll consider it. Why am I not surprised that people around here didn’t like the books the SP’s put up, you approach them with such open minds. [/scarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/312 "2015-08-27T02:54:38Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The puppies say read the books and vote for the ones you like… Which is exactly what the [noaward.com](http://noaward.com) site said, and yet you used that as a cite that they were telling people \*not \*to read the nominations. You can try to have it both ways but nobody here will let you. Heck, Ted Beale won’t let you. Ted Beale, Ted Beale, Ted Beal… Oh, no. Not three times. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/313 "2015-08-27T03:03:14Z")
I read Tom Kratman’s “Big Boys Don’t Cry”. It’s a terrible, poorly-written story originally set in Keith Laumer’s “Bolo” universe, only it was so terrible and poorly-written that the gatekeepers of Laumer’s legacy thankfully refused to let it be associated with him, and so Kratman filed the serial numbers off and published it under (surprise, surprise) Vox Day’s Castalia House imprint. As a bonus, it contains a not-so-veiled personal attack on a SpaceBattles forum poster who mocked Kratman’s laughably bad self-insert Mary Sue fanfic about the War on Terror, because Kratman is _just that thin-skinned and petty._ And _this_ piece of shit was something that the Puppies felt was one of the best sci-fi/fantasy novellas of 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/314 "2015-08-27T03:19:22Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > How shocking that a Catholic believes Catholic doctrine. Now, hold on just one fucking minute. I’m no fan of Catholic doctrine as it relates to gays, but on behalf of the wonderful, caring, Catholics among my family and my friends, I have to object to your disingenuous attempt to shrug of the repulsive statements of your little buddy there as just “believing Catholic doctrine.” This is the Catholic doctrine towards homosexuality: > [@Catechism of the Catholic Church](#): > > The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition. This is what the guy you’re standing up for wrote: > [@John C. Wright](#): > > You are disgusting, limp, soulless sacks of filth. You have earned the contempt and hatred of all decent human beings forever, and we will do all we can to smash the filthy phallic idol of sodomy you bow and serve and worship. Contempt, because you struck from behind, cravenly; and hatred, because you serve a cloud of morally-retarded mental smog called Political Correctness, which is another word for hating everything good and bright and decent and sane in life. > > I have no hatred in my heart for any man’s politics, policies, or faith, any more than I have hatred for termites; but once they start undermining my house where I live, it is time to exterminate them. Actual Catholic teaching: Respect, compassion, sensitivity. John C. Wright’s teaching: Exterminate them like termites. You and **Rick** have both failed pretty spectacularly in differentiating Sad Puppies from Rabid Puppies, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter: the guy you hold up as an acceptable public face of the movement is a miserable shitbag bigot. We don’t need Ted Beale to discredit your movement. John Wright is more than enough to dump the entire movement into the shitter. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/315 "2015-08-27T03:42:22Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > [Puppies in Their Own Words](http://www.jimchines.com/2015/06/puppies-in-their-own-words/) > > Vox Day may have also gone on to run his own campaign, but he absolutely _was_ involved in SP3, and right from the very beginning, too, helping to pick the works that would appear on the slate. You might want to go back and read what Brad [wrote](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/sad-puppies-some-responses-to-the-fallout/) in context of how it was written. Yes he mentioned Vox. He was being attacked and attacked for not denouncing Vox. Here read it. > [@](#): > > For myself, and despite what some of my detractors may claim, I can say without reservation that I am not out to destroy fandom, nor the Hugos, nor do I wish to be an arsonist. In fact, I have argued (within the SP3 brain trust) that being arsonists is a terrible idea. I’d like to see reform, versus destruction. I also knew that being the “it” guy for this project this year (2015) would put my head on the ideological and rhetorical chopping block. Better men than myself have already mortgaged their reputations for the sake of change. I felt honor-bound to take my seat on the dunking machine chair. > > Maybe this damages me eternally in the minds of some? > > Those who actually know me and my work, know I am not a villain. > > And for those who claim I run with villains . . . Larry Correia is my blood brother. I will not throw this man beneath the bus. Look, I get it. Larry is the kind of guy guaranteed to infuriate ideological progressives and leftists, and he makes no apologies. I understand fully that many people can’t stand him. Me? I see this man (in the flesh) all the time. I know his wife and his family. I can think of no one I would want more (in my fox hole) when the chips are down and the bullets are flying. Be they real, or rhetorical, bullets. Larry Correia is a tremendous individual who has taken the bit (of SP) between his teeth, and charged ahead with gusto. I can do no less, during this third iteration of the project. > > And Vox Day? I already explained myself on that one, last year\*. Shunning and ostracisation are the activities of a frightened 13th century village, not the recourse of 21st century cosmopolitans. - Here is the [link](https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/shunning-and-radioactivity/) to what he said the previous year, short story he doesn’t think condemning someone is the morally right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/316 "2015-08-27T04:28:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Okay, what is the truth that others are getting wrong? Well they have lied time after time about the sad puppies and their goals. You have witnessed some of it in this thread. But you want more? How about a senior editor at Tor books (part of the cool kids group) who in a Facebook post promoting one of their people for something said in response to a question “what are the puppies?” said and I qoute > [@](#): > > “There are two extreme right-wing to neo-nazi groups, called the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies respectively, that are calling for the end of social justice in science fiction and fantasy. They are unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic. A noisy few but they’ve been able to gather some Gamergate folks around them and elect a slate of bad-to-reprehensible works on this year’s Hugo ballot.” Unbelievable right? It’s true, the post has been taken down,[but screen shots exist](http://cedarwrites.com/fear-and-loathing-at-tor/). Now when the going gets weird, the weird get going. People started taking her to task on her comment so being the adult adult that she is, she responded by posting pictures of cats. People pointed out that the sad puppies have women and a bisexual on their slate, and she posts pictures of cats. (No shit look at the screen shots) One author that supports the sad puppies Peter Grant was so upset he wrote an [open letter](http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/an-open-letter-to-tom-doherty-of-tor.html) to Tom Doherty which in part said > [@](#): > > Mr. Doherty, I spent eighteen years working with the victims of racial and tribal violence in South Africa, trying to overturn the vicious and racist policies of apartheid. The white government sought to rule by diktat, and the so-called ‘liberation movements’ who opposed it sought to render white rule impossible through terror. Groups such as ours that sought to bring relief and new hope to areas of conflict were targeted by both sides. We paid a heavy price for our beliefs. Twenty-seven of us died during those years, and more have died since. I’ve written here from time to time about some aspects of our experiences. If you’d like to know more, try this article, or this one. As for my attitude towards racism, try this article for a start. > > Given that background, you’ll understand that to be told by Ms. Gallo that, as a supporter of the Sad Puppy campaign, I’m “unrepentantly racist”, is utterly unacceptable to me. Furthermore, I’ve fought (and I mean exchanged gunfire with) real neo-Nazis who sought to impose Nazi-like ideals of racial purity on a country at war with itself. Thus, to be told that I’m a member of an “extreme right-wing to neo-nazi group” is equally unacceptable. I could go on cherry-picking individual clauses out of Ms. Gallo’s statements, but why bother? I think you can understand why I exploded with anger when I read it. She has no idea about those realities. I do. I will bear their scars, mental, spiritual and physical, until the day I die. this got so out of hand Tom Doherty wrote an [apology letter](http://www.tor.com/2015/06/08/a-message-from-tom-doherty-to-our-readers-and-authors/). Now what makes this double funny is Jim Butcher author a very successful author and sad puppy nominee is published by Tor. The art director of Tor Books called one of their best selling authors a bad-to-reprehensible writer. Look at the screen caps above Jim himself calls her unprofessional. Hell I even commented in that thread to Mr. Butcher that I didn’t want to tell him how to run his business, but I have heard that Baen doesn’t insult the authors that write for them. so when it was over she posted an [non-apology apology](http://cedarwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gallo-apology.jpg) Over and over the SJW have called both Brad and Larry homophobic and racist. Both have said take a look at what we have written and show us where we have ever been racist or homophobic. No one ever has. So you will understand that the sad puppies take the attitude that an SJW is lying, until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/317 "2015-08-27T05:46:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > FWIW, Wright also claimed to write, in an afternoon, a better version of the Dinosaur story. [I’m curious whether folks agree with his opinion.](http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/11/the-queen-of-the-tyrant-lizards/) Errm, no. It’s got no rhythm and no emotion - in the original, you can _feel_ the love between narrator and victim. Here, _bupkis_. And far too fucking long. And the political digs are _so_ fucking unsubtle. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/318 "2015-08-27T05:59:18Z")
> [@Cara\_mel](#): > > You’ve said this twice already. How about expanding? What’s to expand on? I’m pointing out that being Hispanic does not mean one necessarily _isn’t_ white. > [@](#): > > If the SPs are a bunch of “old white guys,” how does he fit in? _I_ didn’t say they were a bunch of old white guys. I just said _if_ Correia is being taken as a counter-example _for his (nonexistent) Hispanicness_, he’s a poor one, as his hypothetical Hispanicness doesn’t preclude his Whiteness. Much better to argue that he doesn’t fit ‘old white guy’ because he’s not _old_. Guy’s only 38. > [@](#): > > What about Sarah Hoyt, is she an old white guy too? Why are you asking me? I didn’t call her one. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/319 "2015-08-27T10:32:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Errm, no. It’s got no rhythm and no emotion - in the original, you can _feel_ the love between narrator and victim. Here, _bupkis_. And far too fucking long. And the political digs are _so_ fucking unsubtle. The lack of rhythm is what got me. Wright’s clearly going for something, but it comes across as unbearably pompous and pretentious: he can’t carry off the overwrought language he tries to use. And the imagery is hackneyed and manipulative. I stopped once the little black girl was shot in slo-mo, her pink dress described in detail. ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_mel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@Cara\_mel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cara_mel)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968/320 "2015-08-27T10:46:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What’s to expand on? I’m pointing out that being Hispanic does not mean one necessarily _isn’t_ white._I_ didn’t say they were a bunch of old white guys. I just said _if_ Correia is being taken as a counter-example _for his (nonexistent) Hispanicness_, he’s a poor one, as his hypothetical Hispanicness doesn’t preclude his Whiteness. The discussion at the time was the SPs have repeatedly been described as a bunch of old white guys, i.e. not of minority status. Oh yes, I know _you_ didn’t say that. However, I couldn’t help but notice you were implying rather strongly that Correia is not Hispanic, even though he describes himself as such. It’s kind of relevant because, you know, it’s the minorities that the puppies are supposedly trying to keep out of the genre. You seem to think he’s pretty white, so wondering why you think that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2015-hugo-award-nominees/716968.md?page=17)