# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/261 "2015-07-22T07:48:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That ignores that “national socialism” is generally used to refer to Hitler and co., not anybody who has both socialist and nationalist tendencies. Its also pretty obvious that Kevin Williamson was deliberately using the term to smear Sanders, nevermind that Sanders is Jewish and had relatives who died in the Holocaust. I agree 100% that Sanders is not Hitler, and speaking as a conservative who understands where they are going with these arguments, this is mainly intended as a rib. No one believes Sanders is Hitler, or even Mussolini. But it is actually absurd to combine nationalism with socialism, and fair to call out such absurdity as national socialism. It’s not like liberals never rib Republicans in similar ways for their nonsensical policies. The word “Taliban” has often been thrown at us. Of course, Sanders isn’t really a socialist, he’s actually right-wing compared to European Labor parties. He should just drop the label and admit that he’s just an old style New Deal Democrat. > [@](#): > > Why should socialism be confined to narrow utopian positivist 19th Century Marxism and the even more naive hippies of the 20th and Tumblristas of the 21st Centuries? Also by this reasoning “real” capitalism is also internationalist, at least if the reasoning of classical economics is taken to its logical conclusion. It doesn’t HAVE to be, but it’s fair to ask, are all people deserving of social and economic justice, or do Americans come first, even if that means we intentionally disadvantage poor foreigners? Like I said, you can be socialist and also be an American Firster, but it’s kinda a selfish socialism. Capitalism doesn’t have this moral dilemma, because although capitalism is better when it’s international, it’s morality is irrelevant to the philosophy except to the extent that it’s consistent with freedom and liberty. > [@](#): > > The question isn’t of either/or but between what can be achieved in the short-term and the long-term. I get that, but sometimes you have to choose your priorities. Some US trade policies protect jobs here but seriously disadvantage poor people abroad trying to get ahead. That’s not a matter of short term vs. long term, it’s about things we can do now to help lift Third World people out of poverty. We’ve seen a billion lifted out of poverty in the last 15 years, but a lot of people on the left in this country don’t like the policies that got us there. I don’t think socialists can claim moral authority while wanting to dismantle the very policies that led to such a huge decrease in world poverty. > [@](#): > > Its called adapting to the circumstances. If the choice is between achieving reform in one country or wasting support and time in pursuing utopianist schemes, the former is preferable. Very few supporters of capitalism outside of the Murray Rothbard types think its a good idea to engage in free trade with North Korea-does that undermine the “idealism of early capitalism”? :dubious::rolleyes: I’m not suggesting going straight for utopian socialism. I don’t expect even Bernie Sanders to be so pure as to want everything now lest I call him a hypocrite. I don’t expect him to support nationalization of industry. He wants to make life better for the poor and middle class in this country. But it’s not exactly a controversial position to also want to make life better for people abroad. Sanders’ policies would actually significantly worsen world poverty in order to make us just a little bit better off. It is quite fair to call that national socialism. It’s a big middle finger to the world’s poor and emerging middle classes. > [@](#): > > Kudos to the Senator for standing up to those nilhistic hecklers, although I’d be delighted if the concern troll Right aligns itself with the Social Justice Warrior hacks. I was also impressed with how Sanders handled them. But I’m sure you also see why that’s a problem for him with some of the voters he needs to win.🙂 Sanders is focused like a laser beam on economic justice. That’s good, that’s a major concern of Americans to the point where even Republicans have to talk about it now. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people I know who usually vote Republican who are receptive to Bernie Sanders in a way they will never be to Hillary Clinton. He’s honest, cares about regular folks, and him not being a Democrat is actually an advantage with that group. But while almost all people of color care about economic justice, the reality of their daily lives revolves around their racial identity and how others treat them. As one protesters said, free college and ACA won’t protect him from police violence. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/262 "2015-07-22T13:23:58Z")
How the NRA helped Bernie first get elected to Congress: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059\_story.html?tid=pm\_politics\_pop\_b](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop_b) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/263 "2015-07-22T15:30:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’ve seen a billion lifted out of poverty in the last 15 years . . . Not by free-trade-and-austerity neoliberalism, we haven’t. Not by military-capitalist-aggression neoconservatism, neither. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/264 "2015-07-22T15:33:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But while almost all people of color care about economic justice, the reality of their daily lives revolves around their racial identity and how others treat them. As one protesters said, free college and ACA won’t protect him from police violence. No, but visible middle-class status might help a bit. It won’t protect him entirely, but it will help. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/265 "2015-07-22T15:50:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As one protesters said, free college and ACA won’t protect him from police violence. And vaccinations won’t protect them from tripping because their shoelace is untied. :rolleyes: I understand these people have legitimate concerns, but get a grip, will ya? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/266 "2015-07-22T16:55:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I guess if you don’t expect authenticity, honesty, or direct answers to questions… I expect what I usually get from politicians, be they Democratic, Republican, Green, Libertarian, or Raving Monster Loonie. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/267 "2015-08-21T10:12:28Z")
A case is made for Bernie sanders’ executive abilities: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/20/bernie-sanders-is-the-uncola-of-american-politics/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/20/bernie-sanders-is-the-uncola-of-american-politics/) > [@](#): > > FIX: Describe Sanders time as mayor of Burlington. Is he viewed as a successful mayor? Why or why not? > > GRAFF: Incredibly successful. The origins of almost everything great in Burlington today can be traced back to Bernie’s tenure as mayor. When he was elected in 1981 many city leaders feared he would care more about foreign policy (his team and his supporters were known as “Sanderistas”) than city matters. But he was laser-focused on fixing potholes and economic development and rebuilding the waterfront and saving the downtown and providing arts and developing programs for children. Today Burlington ranks as one of the most livable cities in the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/268 "2015-08-21T10:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But he was laser-focused on fixing potholes and economic development and rebuilding the waterfront and saving the downtown and providing arts and developing programs for children. Damn that socialism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/269 "2015-08-21T11:27:37Z")
De Blasio could learn a little something from that. Some socialists actually do get so focused on their big plans that they neglect their actual job. It’s good to know that Sanders didn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/270 "2015-08-21T13:29:12Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Damn that socialism. Yeah! He just want’s to turn us into Norway! We don’t want to be like the Norwegians, with the highest Human Development Index ranking in the world, top of the Legatum Prosperity Index five years running and $80,000 GDP! Damn [del]Commies[/del] Socialists! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/271 "2015-08-21T13:31:13Z")
We could just settle for being the \*happiest \*people in the world - the Danes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/272 "2015-08-21T14:15:07Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Yeah! He just want’s to turn us into Norway! We don’t want to be like the Norwegians, with the highest Human Development Index ranking in the world, top of the Legatum Prosperity Index five years running and $80,000 GDP! > > Damn [del]Commies[/del] Socialists! Well, there’s a catch: It only works if we eat lutefisk. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/273 "2015-08-22T02:43:17Z")
And have a massive oil surplus. Think Norway puts its resources off limits for development? ---
**Author:** ![Bimmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bimmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bimmer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/274 "2015-08-22T12:29:33Z")
The DNC is using their old trick of using a ‘sheepdog’ to round up the far Lefties and corral them until the it’s nomination time. Then the ‘sheepdog’ dutifully opens the coral and tells all the far Lefties to vote for whomever the DNC believes has the best chance at winning the Presidency. Afterward all the far Lefties will be basically ignored until before the next election. The DNC uses this tactic with the Black voter base also. Good old Bernie has always known how close he can sail into the wind while still hanging onto his job as professional politician. He knows the DNC knows he knows. Like that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/275 "2015-08-22T13:54:18Z")
What if “whomever the DNC believes has the best chance” turns out to be Sanders himself? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/276 "2015-08-22T14:20:11Z")
That’s hilarious. If it’s not going to be Clinton, and no one else can be lured into the race, it’s Martin O’Malley. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/277 "2015-08-22T15:07:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s hilarious. If it’s not going to be Clinton, and no one else can be lured into the race, it’s Martin O’Malley. Sanders has a much bigger and more enthusiastic grassroots following; what gives O’Malley an advantage? ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/278 "2015-08-22T17:12:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s hilarious. If it’s not going to be Clinton, and no one else can be lured into the race, it’s Martin O’Malley. Hmmm… Another 3-syllable name? Doubtful. Then there’s the O’Malley \<\> O’Bama thing… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/279 "2015-08-22T17:23:16Z")
What does the number of syllables have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/280 "2015-08-23T06:17:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sanders has a much bigger and more enthusiastic grassroots following; what gives O’Malley an advantage? The fact that the DNC will never get behind him. If he did win the nomination, mainstream Democrats would distance themselves from the nominee like they did to McGovern. I’d been agreeing with a lot of what Sanders said, but he’s very wrong about this: [http://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-takes-aim-greedy-koch-brothers-014259513--election.html](http://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-takes-aim-greedy-koch-brothers-014259513--election.html) Sanders really hates free speech. He believes that by the act of spreading their message with their money, the Koch Brothers are threatening democracy. No, if the Koch Brothers were giving politicians millions of dollars, that would threaten democracy. If the Koch Brothers were giving millions to the Clinton Foundation, that would be threatening democracy. By runnings ads expressing their viewpoints, that’s participating in democracy. Apparently Sanders thinks that he has special rights as a politician. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=15)