# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/301 "2015-08-23T21:02:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > –wait, that’s your Bubba. You left out all the peace and prosperity stuff. > [@](#): > > Bernie? I think he tried to pass bills. What was he supposed to do? How’d that go? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/302 "2015-08-23T23:26:36Z")
My current thoughts on Sanders and some of his supporters is written [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18618976&postcount=25). I’d just be copying and pasting the whole thing, so I’ll just link it. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/303 "2015-08-24T00:29:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still would like to know what Sanders has actually accomplished in his decades in Washington. If any of us thought you’d honestly care about any of the 354 bills he has introduced, the thousands of amendments he’s introduced to other people’s bills or any of the work he’s done in the numerous committees he sits and has sat on, we might bother posting any of it for you. But we’ve played this game with you before so we know how it goes: We post an accomplishment; you dismiss it as trivial. Bernie Sanders has been a tireless champion for the poor, the middle class, African Americans, seniors, and veterans for his entire legislative career. Consistently. Without fail. Against powerful monied interests that don’t care about those groups. And he’s done so well at it that his constituents in Vermont have reelected him every single election. He’s shown an unwavering commitment to fighting until he could get someone’s attention. He has our attention now. He’s been right all along. And we are worse off for not having listened more carefully sooner. But it isn’t too late to repair the damage if we stick together as citizens and demand that this country be returned to one that is of the people, by the people and for the people instead of of the special interests, by the lobbyists and for the corporations. You can either join the revolution or you can sit on the sidelines and wave while we get things done without you. But trust us, things are about to change in a big, big way. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/304 "2015-08-24T02:10:10Z")
So, a bunch of bills and speeches with no actual results other than his re-election. You could have just said so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/305 "2015-08-24T02:17:13Z")
[Time to engage with the real world, folks.](http://www.opednews.com/articles/Loving-Bernie-But-Getting-by-James-Quandy-Bernie-Sanders_Bernie-Sanders-2016-Presidential-Candidate_Change_Change-150817-838.html)Says one of his most ardent fanboys: > [@](#): > > Bernie is a 73-year-old Jewish Socialist from Vermont. Now this very brief description in itself presents what I see as at least 4 “challenges”, any one of which (unfortunately) could be fatal to any candidate for President. But the nub of it all: > [@](#): > > 60% of Americans, according to a recent Pew Survey click here have a negative view of the term “socialism”. If that were not enough, according to a Gallup survey, as of June, 2015, 50% of Americans would not consider voting for a socialist for President. Is it just me… but \*\*half of the voters not being willing to even consider someone’s candidacy? \*\*Do we need a political scientist here? > > There are some who will point to Bernie’s success in Vermont as proof that he is a viable, national candidate. But he actually lost two elections for governor, and two for senator, in the 70s, before eventually being elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont in 1981 (by 10 votes, in a 4-way race.) Bolding in original. Quoting Nate Cohn in the NYT: > [@](#): > > A closer look at the polls shows that he is simply not within striking distance of winning the nomination. His support has run into a wall: Women, blacks and Hispanics continue to support Mrs. Clinton by a wide margin, as do white moderate and conservative Democrats. > > Mr. Sanders has become the favorite of one of the Democratic Party’s most important factions: the overwhelmingly white, progressive left. These voters are plentiful in the well-educated, more secular enclaves where journalists roam. This voting support is enough for him to compete in Iowa; New Hampshire and elsewhere in New England; the Northwest; and many Western caucuses. But it is not a viable electoral coalition in a Democratic Party that is far more moderate and diverse than his supporters seem to recognize. You can go on helping the Republicans take back the White House if you want, but don’t expect not to get severely criticized for it. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/306 "2015-08-24T02:35:34Z")
You don’t GET to criticize me here, so KNOCK IT OFF. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/307 "2015-08-24T02:38:26Z")
Elvis, you really don’t get to criticize other posters here. Don’t make it personal. If you can’t do that, I encourage you to rethink what you’re doing here. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/308 "2015-08-24T03:40:24Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > … You can either join the revolution or you can sit on the sidelines and wave while we get things done without you. But trust us, things are about to change in a big, big way. And now I can’t get this surprisingly apt song outa my head: > [@](#): > > You say you want a revolution > Well, you know > We all want to change the world > … > > Well, you know > You’d better free your mind instead > > But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao > You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow … I aint interested in no revolution. What I want are solutions. I don’t want to destroy Wall Street. Or man the barricades of Les Miz in a noble and fruitless waste. Very seriously, revolutions are messy things that rarely result in more than a few losing their heads before we just get fooled again. If that. Our system is flawed, no question, but yeah, you man the barricades, you have faith in yourselves, and do not be afraid, give them a screwing they will not forget, dogs will bark, fleas will bite. Yup, that’ll be me, waving. Along with everyone else you are just shocked are not taking up arms and joining you on the barricades. Voting to actually get things done that really end up doing something about the hollowing out of the middle class and the unrealistic burden of educational costs and debt. Not imagining what would happen if we had a revolution, off with the bankers’ heads, and suddenly did not have to negotiate and compromise with the rest of this country’s citizens. If somehow Sanders ended up being the nominee I’d vote for him but if he managed to win (improbably) less good would actually be achieved during his swing at bat than would be if Clinton was at the helm. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/309 "2015-08-24T04:29:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > On the contrary, opponents of Citizens United believe what the media and political class want them to believe: that political speech is property their bailiwick, and anyone else who dares to reach the masses is “interfering” with democracy. Yeah, sure, as if. So, all those Occupy protesters and “direct action” types, they’re _for_ Citizens United in your world? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/310 "2015-08-24T04:47:48Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > The real issue: America was and always will be a nation of individualist assholes. A bunch of people who think they could make more, or do whatever it is better than _that asshole_ over there. It’s what made us great, it’s what makes us terrible in crisis situations and long term planning. > > Someone discovers resources in America? Well, who “owns” the land? They get all the profit, even if they simply won a weird kind of lottery they didn’t know they were playing. Oh, the person who owns the land is some poor ass farmer, or some race we don’t like, or one of those stupid Native Americans? Fuck them, they wouldn’t know what to do with all those resources anyway, we’ll just take that for them. > > America doesn’t have oil profits not because they don’t drill enough, but rather because it’s a capitalist economic system, run like an oligarchy. Norway found oil, said “hey, that could pay for a lot of really cool shit we can’t even think of right now, let’s figure out how much we have, allow private corporations to teach us how to build an industry from scratch, protect the resources so they’ll last as long as possible, and put all surplus profits in a massive rainy day fund” and their citizens went: yep, sounds reasonable. America found oil and a bunch of psychopath individuals ran in yelling “THAT SHITS MINE,” buying and stealing everything they could, while the American government looked on and went “eh, what are you going to do about it?” > > Bernie resonates with young people because we all grew up with the internet and have a general idea of how other countries operate. We read about places like Norway and think, why the hell can’t we have that? We also grew up during the Bush years, the financial crises, the bailouts, all that shit, and quite a few of us Did What Our Parents Told Us To Do and we’re graduating with a college degree and nobodies hiring, the minimum wage is laughable, we could never afford a house, we can’t even afford cars. We realize that American politics are all lies designed to keep a select few extremely wealthy – like the petroleum industry – and fuck everyone else. > > We also watch people talk about global warming as if there’s a debate to be had, and we again see moneyed interests buying political favor, and it’s all very insane. We know we’re going to see massive climate change in our lifetimes, after all these asshole politicians are long dead, and we’re the ones that are going to have to make a worthless effort to fix something that can’t be fixed. > > Bernie comes along (in elected office 40 years, net worth: about $300k, give or take) and says “hey, what if we do a bunch of common sense things, like focus on improving infrastructure, or removing corporate influence from politics, or addressing climate change, or removing systematic racism from government institutions, or paying people a living wage, or ending the privatization of the prison industry, or actual health care for all, etc? And by the way, we can do all this if we just close some corporate loopholes, make taxes go back to the levels they’ve been at every single time American has prospered (read: tax the fuck out of the 1%, get it back down to historical averages), and end a lot of corporate subsidies?” > > And we, the young people go… yea, that seems reasonable. Thanks for not talking to us like we’re idiots. > > Meanwhile… > > What’s the Republican platform right now? What are they running on? What policies? Something about building a wall, abortion, umm… No healthcare? Fuck, who knows. Trump’s leading the race, what are his policies? He knows everything, he hates a bunch of people, he wants to deport Mexicans… that’s a great platform to build off of. > > None of the Republicans are “conservatives” – they don’t actually believe in conservative economic principles. Us young people see through that shit, we know they’re just saying whatever they have to so they can get into office and make themselves and their friends rich. They want to cut taxes… while at war with two countries. Fuck that. > > So yea, democratic socialism might not work in America, but not because America doesn’t have the resources. Rather, it’s because America is full of self-serving individualist assholes who think someday they’ll be CEO’s of that oil corporation, or as rich and “successful” as Donald Trump, or whatever, so fuck anyone who might take my future billions of dollars! > > We could all have a better standard of living, and be wealthier, as a whole population, but a few hundred people at the top of our society would have to come down a litttttttle bit in income. Or we as a whole population could become poorer, sicker, and have far shittier lives, just so those few hundred people at the very top can… buy more jets? Put golden toilets in their offices? Who knows. This. This. A thousand times this. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/311 "2015-08-24T05:03:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You left out all the peace and prosperity stuff. Peace owed to Reagan and Gorbachev, which Clinton was smart enough not to undermine. Half point. A transient prosperity owed mostly to factors before Clinton, such as the successful exploitation of offshore oil fields (don’t start, adaher, I’m still a conservationist, and the future _now_ is still wind and solar) and the boom in home computing. And a prosperity undermined _hard_ by the 1) end of Glass-Steagall ([1999](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act)) and the cap on funded medical resident training due to the mythic threat of a physician “glut” [(1997)](http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducation/42786). So, that’s how that went. > [@](#): > > How’d that go? Well, much of his time in the House was during the wild and crazy Gingrich and Hastert/DeLay years, when the Democrats were in the minority (so much for Clintons having coattails) and the crooks were in charge. He got a lot of amendments passed, and then they’d get gutted in reconciliation. To claim that’s a strike against _him_ is odd. Ah, I see, ElvisL1ves thinks that one’s fitness for the Presidency is determined by factors external to oneself. OK, I’ve probably made arguments like that before, I admit. I think it was in '08, when I said HRC was too hated and a younger, centrist Democrat was a safer bet for the party. I was wrong, by the way: The GOP had no hope in that election and the Democrats could not lose–and the centrist kid was both despised within his own party for jumping the line and unfairly caricatured by the other side as a “Black Caesar.” So, yeah external matters do matter–the ones that come into play once in office. Sanders will have a big disadvantage once in office: He’s an ideologue, not a party loyalist. People who like him as a Senator may resent him and then hate him as a President. Adding to the progressive share of Congress is the most important thing for the next election. If HRC has the coattails, she may be the best candidate. If those coattails are Dick Nixon Republicans in pantsuits, or if they end up out on their butts in two years, that may still be less than enough. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/312 "2015-08-24T05:10:32Z")
And I come back to this. The race that matters is the race for Congress. The Presidency will never be “enough.” You cannot fix the problems of decades of deep legislative dysfunction in just a few years just by nominating judges. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/313 "2015-08-24T05:50:49Z")
With all the love for ZebraShaSha’s post, did anyone notice that we already enjoy nearly the highest standard of living in the world? Thinking that we’d be richer if we adopted policies that even when working well don’t generate as much wealth as our system makes no sense. It’s the lack of “individualist assholes” that keeps most European nations poor. And if we didn’t subsidize their defense needs, their health care needs, and buy their oil(since we won’t drill for our own) even the richer ones would be a lot poorer. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/314 "2015-08-24T06:04:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > And I come back to this. The race that matters is the race for Congress. The Presidency will never be “enough.” You cannot fix the problems of decades of deep legislative dysfunction in just a few years just by nominating judges. Which is really why I want to reform to some sort of proportional system, but good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/315 "2015-08-24T06:38:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s the lack of “individualist assholes” that keeps most European nations poor. And if we didn’t subsidize their defense needs, their health care needs, and buy their oil(since we won’t drill for our own) even the richer ones would be a lot poorer. Literally all but one of those claims are untrue. Poor European nations aren’t helped by “assholes.” Berlusconi and Ceaușescu were two varieties of particularly out-for-themselves European “assholes,” and they didn’t make their countries rich. I don’t know enough about Lukashenko to say if he’s an asshole or just a benign dictator or what, but Belarus is poor for reasons beyond assholishness. Belgium, Sweden, and Denmark are almost antitheses of individualist assholishness–to the point that I, an admittedly somewhat individualist asshole American of Swedish descent, would find Sweden annoying and Denmark weirdly restrictive; and yet, they are economically rather comfortable. (And if I did move to Denmark, I could smuggle in Pepto-Bismol.) Social insurance and high VATs subsidize their healthcare needs. Or are you listening to Pfizer lobbyists again? There’s much, much more to health care than pharmaceutical development; and most of the money Yanks pay for drugs, _and_ much of the research money Yanks pay for Big Pharma to do is incidental to outcomes. Yes, really! Look at how many Prozac and Viagra knockoffs there are! Those are generally working from the same original, public domain research, with tweaks to be able to patent a competing choice/lifestyle drug as a moneymaker. (There are legitimate therapeutic uses to both, of course; but the business model doesn’t rely on those.) Most of Europe import petroleum and natural gas. Not every nation has a Texas. Norway and Scotland have the North Sea fields, but that is far from typical. It’s safe to assume that the USA both has and exploits far more oil, gas, and even coal _every year_ than the median EU state even has in total reserves. Now, I suppose I _would_ be happy to end NATO and let Europe build their own navy; not because I wish to abandon our allies to potential future Russian, German, or French expansionism; but for entirely domestic political reasons: I am sick of the USA using our status as the ersatz “warrior slave” caste of Europe as an excuse not to have a functional welfare state. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/316 "2015-08-24T07:59:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > With all the love for ZebraShaSha’s post, did anyone notice that we already enjoy nearly the highest standard of living in the world? Thinking that we’d be richer if we adopted policies that even when working well don’t generate as much wealth as our system makes no sense. It’s the lack of “individualist assholes” that keeps most European nations poor. And if we didn’t subsidize their defense needs, their health care needs, and buy their oil(since we won’t drill for our own) even the richer ones would be a lot poorer. As always, you make the point I was trying to make, by missing my point entirely. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” … We have this romantic notion of America being a spirited democracy full of lively debate and a vast diversity of opinion, a raucous cacophony of voices from all walks of life, with everyone getting a seat at the table. All falsehoods: the ruling class in America is rich, male, Christian, and white, and they govern within a narrow set of ideas that align closely with their personal interests. But, this myth of having a spirited debate must persist to keep the oligarchy in power. Convince people they think they can make a difference, but give them only two options, both of which benefit you and your friends. … Anyway, when you (proverbial you) start having an actual discussion of issues, with facts and common sense, posters like yourself (and Republicans, and most Democrats) obfuscate, move the goal posts, ignore the stuff you can’t hand-wave away, all to obscure the uncomfortable truth that our democracy isn’t very democratic and we don’t get very many choices in the direction the country goes. My post was full of examples you can’t account for, or explain away, or even challenge. So you ignored it, best you could, and now you try to change it into a vague discussion on standards of living. Take a discussion of facts, change it into a discussion on a difference of opinion. Sorry, not interested. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/317 "2015-08-24T08:04:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > My current thoughts on Sanders and some of his supporters is written [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18618976&postcount=25). I’d just be copying and pasting the whole thing, so I’ll just link it. Not necessarily responding to you, but this is as good of a place as any: Bernie Sanders agrees with the American people on the following issues: [Wealth Distribution](http://www.gallup.com/poll/182987/americans-continue-say-wealth-distribution-unfair.aspx) [Ending Citizens United](http://billmoyers.com/2014/11/21/majority-americans-want-money-politics/) [Raising minimum wage](http://www.gallup.com/poll/160913/back-raising-minimum-wage.aspx) [Publically funded campaigns](http://www.gallup.com/poll/163208/half-support-publicly-financed-federal-campaigns.aspx) [Abortion rights](http://www.gallup.com/poll/183434/americans-choose-pro-choice-first-time-seven-years.aspx?utm_source=ABORTION&utm_medium=topic&utm_campaign=tiles) [Global Warming](http://environment.yale.edu/climate-communication/article/american-opinions-on-global-warming-a-yale-gallup-clearvision-poll) [Taking action to end global warming](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/politics/most-americans-support-government-action-on-climate-change-poll-finds.html?_r=0) [Affordability of higher education](http://www.gallup.com/poll/182441/americans-say-higher-education-not-affordable.aspx) [Gun control](http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx) [NSA surveillance](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/18/us-voters-broadly-opposed-nsa-surveillance) [Gay marriage](http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/back-law-legalize-gay-marriage-states.aspx) And then some. People making him out to be some insane leftist socialist nutter are missing the point that he’s actually quite populist: He agrees with the majority of Americans on the majority of things. How does Hillary fare? How about Republicans? And if the answer is that they don’t align with the American people like Bernie does, why are they getting elected? Why are they in charge? Isn’t this a democracy, shouldn’t we be electing people who we agree with, on policy? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/318 "2015-08-24T08:17:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And now I can’t get this surprisingly apt song outa my head: > I aint interested in no revolution. What I want are solutions. > > I don’t want to destroy Wall Street. Or man the barricades of Les Miz in a noble and fruitless waste. > > Very seriously, revolutions are messy things that rarely result in more than a few losing their heads before we just get fooled again. If that. Our system is flawed, no question, but yeah, you man the barricades, you have faith in yourselves, and do not be afraid, give them a screwing they will not forget, dogs will bark, fleas will bite. > > Yup, that’ll be me, waving. Along with everyone else you are just shocked are not taking up arms and joining you on the barricades. > > Voting to actually get things done that really end up doing something about the hollowing out of the middle class and the unrealistic burden of educational costs and debt. Not imagining what would happen if we had a revolution, off with the bankers’ heads, and suddenly did not have to negotiate and compromise with the rest of this country’s citizens. > > If somehow Sanders ended up being the nominee I’d vote for him but if he managed to win (improbably) less good would actually be achieved during his swing at bat than would be if Clinton was at the helm. [Here’s an amazing article](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/how-bernie-sanderss-radical-ideas-entered-the-municipal-mainstream-118447.html) on the stuff Bernie achieved as mayor. When he was elected, people were terrified that a communist took over. But everything socialist he did – which was seen as far-left radical at the time – is now so common place in municipal governments that people don’t even notice. > [@](#): > > Shortly after taking office, Sanders created a Mayor’s Arts Council to bring free arts and cultural events to the city, and in 1983 the city gave it municipal funding. “It was like he started a revolution,” said Bruce Seifer, Sanders’ appointee as assistant director of economic development, of the initial reaction to this use of city resources. “But business people like to go to cultural events. It helps to retain families and businesses.” > [@](#): > > Early in Sanders’ tenure, his treasurer discovered $200,000 in the city’s coffers and the mayor determined to plow it into a bold initiative. Inspired by the garden cities of England, Isreali kibbutzim and Indian communes set up by the followers of Gandhi, he proposed to buy land and hold it in a communal trust for affordable housing, while the housing itself would be owned by occupants. > > An opposition group, Homeowners Against the Land Trust, or HALT, labeled it a “communist scheme.” But the plan went through. In 1984, the Burlington Community Land Trust became one of the first affordable housing trusts in the world, and the very first to receive municipal funding. Today, there are over 250 such trusts in the United States — in places like Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Boston and Chapel Hill, North Carolina — most of which receive some form of government funding. > [@](#): > > In 1988, toward the end of Sanders’ four-term tenure — long after a local Democratic leader predicted the movement that swept Sanders into office would be gone in a decade — the U.S. Conference of Mayors named Burlington the most livable city in the country with a population of under 100,000 (in a tie). Then Sanders’ director of community and economic development succeeded him in the mayor’s office and Inc. Magazine named Burlington the best city in the Northeast for a growing business. > > And what about the guy who told UPI “Everyone’s scared” when the Lenin of Lake Champlain first stormed to power in 1981? That was the state’s then-Democratic Party chairman, Mark Kaplan. Today, he’s on board with a socialist in the White House. > > “I actually donated to him,” said Kaplan. “I’m kind of excited about it.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/319 "2015-08-24T12:39:26Z")
Speaking as a Republican, when I contemplate the nomination of Bernie Sanders for POTUS, I agree with Br’er Rabbit - > [@](#): > > Whatever you do, don’t throw me into that briar patch! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/320 "2015-08-24T12:44:54Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Elvis, you really don’t get to criticize other posters here. Don’t make it personal. > > If you can’t do that, I encourage you to rethink what you’re doing here. Just \*responding \*to some. :dubious: May I see the quote where you think I’m criticizing the person, not the posts, please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=17)