# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/341 "2015-08-25T02:22:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No, Sanders no more has a secret unreleased plan to win a Democratic majority in both the House and in the Senate (that he has kept to himself for 24 years now) than Trump has a plan to defeat ISIS. And I agree with J[eff Weaver his campaign manager, and with Bernie himself:](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/us/politics/bernie-sanders-evokes-obama-of-08-but-with-less-hope.html?_r=0) > Difference being I accept the reality that Congress is going to be pretty much in its current composition and that there will be no “revolution.” QED no Sanders elected President, “forget about it.” > > The House is out of reach for the Democrats and will continue to be mostly dominated by various flavors of Far Right; the Senate is an unlikely flip. > > The GOP will, in the near term at least, continue to dominate Congress, and those elected GOP Congressional representatives will dance when told by those who fund them and dance the dance they are told to dance. You want to win and accomplish something fight and you also win allies, including some within the 1 or even the 0.1%, and you negotiate and compromise as well. > > Sanders wants single payor. That’s nice. Honestly it was my preference too. But real world was that it was not going to happen and actually accomplishing something required getting all the vested interest actors enough of what they wanted that something good, not perfect, could get done. “Single payor or nothing” would have meant nothing. > > Obama did not make a mistake by doing what he promised to do, to _try_ to work together with the GOP. He did not make a mistake in not allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. And as a result we have not achieved perfection but he did do a lot of good while working _towards_ perfecting the world. > > And Sanders won’t expand his support with a strategy that seems bent on trying to diminish and minimize what Obama accomplished. So what? I accept all that stuff too. Obama’s done great with what he’s had to work with. We only lost the public option by one turncoat vote. But people wanted it and still do and there’s not a damn thing wrong with electing someone who will work to expand what we’ve already got. You act like we should all just take our balls and go home now, as if there’s no room for progress. You’re wrong. Things can always be improved. And you _still_ haven’t said how you think the despised Hillary Clinton would get a single, solitary thing done.She can pander to the middle all she wants, Congress will never, ever, ever in a billion trillion years work with her. And with that, I’m done with you. You’ve condescended to me for the last time. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/342 "2015-08-25T02:33:17Z")
In fairness it must be noted that Senator HRC also sponsored a metric shit-ton of bills, 417 which is more than Sanders did, of which only three became law and none of major significance. [Orin Hatch](http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/which-senator-has-passed-the-most-laws-20140516) both of them aint. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/343 "2015-08-25T02:43:07Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > And you _still_ haven’t said how you think the despised Hillary Clinton would get a single, solitary thing done.She can pander to the middle all she wants, Congress will never, ever, ever in a billion trillion years work with her. > > And with that, I’m done with you. You’ve condescended to me for the last time. As stated, a more centrist President can negotiate and get votes from across the aisle, even from people who dislike him/her. Bill Clinton was a great example at doing just that. And, no, I am pretty sure that I have not condescended to you for the last time!\* 🙂 \*Well more accurately: “posted such that you _perceive it_ as such”, but hey. Close enough. It is comfort to me that you and **ElvisL1ves** _both_ find my posts irritating! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/344 "2015-08-25T03:54:34Z")
As someone who likes Sanders more than Clinton, I do believe Clinton would be able to work with Republicans much better than Sanders would. We’ve always been able to do business with the Clintons, and that goes for Hillary in the Senate as well as Bill in the White House, no matter how much acrimony there was between the two sides. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/345 "2015-08-25T03:57:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As someone who likes Sanders more than Clinton, I do believe Clinton would be able to work with Republicans much better than Sanders would. We’ve always been able to do business with the Clintons, and that goes for Hillary in the Senate as well as Bill in the White House, no matter how much acrimony there was between the two sides. LOL, you’re just trying to rile up the Sanders purists. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/346 "2015-08-25T04:20:28Z")
I’m with them in a lot of ways. There’s a lot of overlap on some basic issues between Sanders and the Tea Party on issues like corporate welfare, immigration, and government reform. But those aren’t the biggest issues facing the country. On the really big stuff, the work is going to be done between mainstream Republicans and a Democratic President(assuming the Republicans don’t just control everything after the election). Which means Clinton or Biden is a better choice if that’s what you’re looking for. Sanders would make a great President if you just want to fiddle around with some of the annoying small stuff like government contracting rules, corporate subsidies, pork barrel spending, immigration quotas, etc. But on the big stuff the gap would be too wide between Sanders and the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/347 "2015-08-25T17:56:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **John Stamos’** … help me out … how many of the 354 bills that he sponsored or co-sponsored got passed in either house and how many actually became law. What were they? His record compared to everyone in Congress was shown. Now compare his record to the most conservative member of the Senate, Inhofe. Compare it to other congressmen who supposedly are principled such as Ron Paul. If you do that, you’ll see he does manage to get things done. You can nitpick but that ignores that the Congresses that Sanders has been a part of have been legendary for getting nothing done. They literally make the Do Nothing Congress seem like productive worker bees in comparison. Getting anything done in such a landscape is amazing. Couple that with being the farthest left and one of the most principled member of Congress and he did a lot. If that’s not enough for you, blame the dysfunctional institution. He’s 1% of the Senate and was once one out of hundreds in the house. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/348 "2015-08-25T18:00:33Z")
It’s not nit-picking to observe that a majority of his bills are nothingburgers, and that the vast majority didn’t get signed into law anyway. How many bills he has proposed is a very very silly measure of his worth as a legislator. What are his top five most important lead sponsored that actually became law? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/349 "2015-08-25T18:44:11Z")
Or even the top _one_? A longtime public servant _has_ to be judged on his record. Speeches and policy pronouncements are not a record by themselves, although their effects are to the extent the person is responsible for them. The record really is the best predictor of one’s future performance. That’s what these questions are about. It is as fair as anything can be. Having once been a good mayor of a small city centered on a large university does count for something, certainly. But the most recent decades show the record of a backbencher, though, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/350 "2015-08-25T18:45:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A longtime public servant _has_ to be judged on his record. Speeches and policy pronouncements are not a record by themselves, although their effects are to the extent the person is responsible for them. The record really is the best predictor of one’s future performance. That’s what these questions are about. It is as fair as anything can be. I could have written this.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/351 "2015-08-25T18:48:43Z")
To be fair, what were Hillary’s top 5 legislative triumphs? Besides the Iraq AUMF, that is. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/352 "2015-08-25T18:52:14Z")
She also helped write a bankruptcy reform bill in 2001, although it failed and was later brought back up in 2005 and passed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/353 "2015-08-25T18:52:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be fair, what were Hillary’s top 5 legislative triumphs? Besides the Iraq AUMF, that is. 😉 I have no idea. I, for one, would never hold up her career as a Senator as proof of her accomplishments in Washington. ISTM that Obama accomplished more in his brief stint in the Senate (ethics reform, nuclear non-proliferation legislation, improved CAFE standards) than Sanders has in decades. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/354 "2015-08-25T18:55:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be fair, what were Hillary’s top 5 legislative triumphs? Besides the Iraq AUMF, that is. 😉 Although it came before her election, I would have to put Hillarycare in the top slot, since it laid the groundwork for Obamacare - which will ultimately be seen as significant a triumph for the country as Social Security and Medicare. She does have quite a bit more of a record than her Senate service, “to be fair”. > [@adaher](#): > > I could have written this.🙂 But you wouldn’t have then applied it to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/355 "2015-08-25T19:04:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Although it came before her election, I would have to put Hillarycare in the top slot, since it laid the groundwork for Obamacare - which will ultimately be seen as significant a triumph for the country as Social Security and Medicare. Hmmm. I wonder why you never hear her talk about Hillarycare. But you may be onto something, and maybe her campaign will be bringing that up a lot during the general election. We’ll see. > [@](#): > > She does have quite a bit more of a record than her Senate service, “to be fair”. Does she? How did you determine that? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/356 "2015-08-25T19:06:46Z")
Shhhhh. No one is supposed to ask that. Her “35 years of experience” is just supposed to be taken at face value. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/357 "2015-08-25T19:07:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hmmm. I wonder why you never hear her talk about Hillarycare. You must have some notion. Maybe you could share it with us? Or share any of your own thoughts, for that matter? > [@](#): > > Does she? How did you determine that? By remembering that she’s also been Secretary of State and one of the most powerful and effective First Ladies. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/358 "2015-08-25T19:08:18Z")
That’s the experience we’re not supposed to talk about, since First Lady isn’t a governmental position. It was for her, and I give her credit for it, but we’re not supposed to talk about it because no one elected Hillary governor or President. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/359 "2015-08-25T19:13:05Z")
Who says you’re not supposed to talk about it? And why would they? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/360 "2015-08-25T19:18:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > By remembering that she’s also been Secretary of State and one of the most powerful and effective First Ladies. :rolleyes: Oh, my bad. I misread your post as saying she had more IN her Senate record. Still, we had a whole thread on what she did as SecState, and I didn’t see a whole of substance in there. **Richard Parker** did link to her wikipedia page, but the general tone is more along the lines of: She was competent, but not particularly notable, and there were no key breakthroughs or successful initiatives that can be tied to her. But, if were her campaign manager and had to come up with the top 3 things she did wile heading up State, what would those things be? And I’m thinking of things that would resonate in the election and sway voters to vote for her. And, as you noted in that other thread, it’s been a looming time since we elected a former SecState as president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=19)