# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/441 "2015-09-26T09:39:52Z")
And why have incomes stagnated? Because we keep on importing more workers to keep the price of labor down. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/442 "2015-09-26T09:52:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And why have incomes stagnated? Because we keep on importing more workers to keep the price of labor down. The data doesn’t support that view - immigrants encourages the economy to expand. Kind of weird to blame income stagnation on the one clear factor that helped grow the USA for 200 years: > **[Unemployment in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_in_the_United_States)** > > Employment > Unemployment in the United States discusses the causes and measures of U.S. unemployment and strategies for reducing it. Job creation and unemployment are affected by factors such as economic conditions, global competition, education, automation, and demographics. These factors can affect the number of workers, the duration of unemployment, and wage levels. > Unemployment generally falls during periods of economic prosperity and rises during recessions, creating significant pressure on... Back to the point, there really has been a class war for 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/443 "2015-09-26T12:16:11Z")
No one is disputing that we don’t have economic growth. The issue is incomes. Yes, immigrants contribute to economic growth, but they cause income stagnation. Incomes=price of labor, and when you increase labor supply, you lower labor price. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/444 "2015-09-26T12:23:31Z")
So, historically, how did a nation built on immigration achieve income growth? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/445 "2015-09-26T13:07:36Z")
Second chart, you’ll see that the period that liberals laud as the time of greatest middle class prosperity also featured the lowest immigration: [http://www.immigrationeis.org/eis-documents/us-demographic-history](http://www.immigrationeis.org/eis-documents/us-demographic-history) > [@](#): > > In retrospect, the Great Pause corresponded with a golden age for American labor, despite encompassing the Great Depression. Labor markets tightened, eventually, and union organizing boomed. After World War II, salaries rose, work hours decreased and fringe benefits improved, as employers chased relatively scarce labor (this included hiring African-Americans into industrial occupations from which they had previously been excluded). America created the world’s first mass middle-class society, with a relatively egalitarian sharing of wealth, and relatively prosperous and secure workers throughout many sectors of the economy. Toward the end of this period, the nation took significant steps toward redressing its historic wrongs against African-Americans, with President Truman integrating the armed forces, the Supreme Court ruling segregated schooling unconstitutional, and Congress passing major civil rights legislation in 1964 and 1965. Throughout this period, there was no groundswell for a return to the relatively high levels of immigration of half a century earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/446 "2015-09-26T17:31:15Z")
That is why many sensible progressives (including myself) are open to modest and sensible restrictions on immigration such as moving towards a skills-based system and why Sanders opposes the silly superstition of open borders. Of course, existing immigrants must be assimilated as much as possible and as quickly as possible to ensure the sort of social solidarity and internal cultural homogenity necessary to sustain political support for a broad-based welfare state. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/447 "2015-09-27T03:31:14Z")
Yeah, it all depends on what your priorities are. There’s a good, liberal argument for increased immigration based on freedom and diversity and how we’re enriched by immigration culturally and economically. But you can’t have a generous welfare state with mass immigration and you can’t have rising wages with it either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/448 "2015-09-27T15:27:27Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Back to the point, there really has been a class war for 40 years. Sort of; only the ruling class has been fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/449 "2015-09-27T21:28:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, it all depends on what your priorities are. There’s a good, liberal argument for increased immigration based on freedom and diversity and how we’re enriched by immigration culturally and economically. > > But you can’t have a generous welfare state with mass immigration and you can’t have rising wages with it either. That said, weren’t you complaining about Bernie Sanders previously for “betraying” “progressive ideals” by opposing open borders? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/450 "2015-09-28T00:41:14Z")
No, I was complaining about him muddling his message by opposing Keystone. He had a real shot at maybe bringing some union endorsements in, but now they’ve got no reason to not back Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/451 "2015-09-28T01:48:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I was complaining about him muddling his message by opposing Keystone. He had a real shot at maybe bringing some union endorsements in, but now they’ve got no reason to not back Clinton. I mean the posts on this page some months ago: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755599&page=6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755599&page=6) ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/452 "2015-09-28T02:16:21Z")
Am I mistaken or are there really people on this board, who think having white elderly male career politicians, like Bernie, running the US, is a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/453 "2015-09-28T02:44:02Z")
You’re mistaken if you think that there are people on this board who have a problem with it. Indeed, for practical consideration, all of our serious options this time are elderly, white, career politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/454 "2015-09-28T02:51:02Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Am I mistaken or are there really people on this board, who think having white elderly male career politicians, like Bernie, running the US, is a good idea? As opposed to who exactly? It was already pointed out that elderly, white, career politicians are all we have for serious consideration this time around. I find it odd you have chosen to focus on Bernie out of all the other options. Whether he is your cup of tea or not, he is undoubtedly the most progressive/liberal one in the running. Or is that the real issue? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/455 "2015-09-28T03:07:55Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Am I mistaken or are there really people on this board, who think having white elderly male career politicians, like Bernie, running the US, is a good idea? Yes, obviously I would very much rather have a white elderly male liberal like Bernie Sanders as President than a black young female conservative like Mia Love of Utah. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/456 "2015-09-28T03:11:14Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > As opposed to who exactly? It was already pointed out that elderly, white, career politicians are all we have for serious consideration this time around. I find it odd you have chosen to focus on Bernie out of all the other options. Whether he is your cup of tea or not, he is undoubtedly the most progressive/liberal one in the running. Or is that the real issue? Well, surely, there must be someone else out there on Democratic side, who hasn’t spent all his life being a politician and actually worked for a living? I mean, sure, we’ve got Monica Lewinsky’ ex-boyfriend wife…anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/457 "2015-09-28T03:12:53Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Well, surely, there must be someone else out there on Democratic side, who hasn’t spent all his life being a politician and actually worked for a living? I mean, sure, we’ve got Monica Lewinsky’ ex-boyfriend wife…anyone else? Who gives a fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/458 "2015-09-28T03:14:24Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Who gives a fuck? People who actually want someone else, other than elderly white male career politicians to run for President? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/459 "2015-09-28T03:16:20Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > People who actually want someone else, other than elderly white male career politicians to run for President? So useless SJWs and right-wing concern trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/460 "2015-09-28T03:18:06Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Well, surely, there must be someone else out there on Democratic side, who hasn’t spent all his life being a politician and actually worked for a living? I mean, sure, we’ve got Monica Lewinsky’ ex-boyfriend wife…anyone else? Ahhh, now I understand. Don’t you have an appointment with some billy goats? Run along now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=24)