# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/561 "2015-11-09T05:15:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > See post #556. I did. Not sure I buy it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/562 "2015-11-09T05:29:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because Sanders is playing a long game – a game that does not end in July 2016 and does not end in November 2016. He’s starting a **movement.** The goal is to change the prevailing/consensus politics of the Democratic Party, to pull it to a left-progressive position, permanently. Sanders himself will never be POTUS, but the POTUS after Hillary will look a lot like him politically. You know I can agree with that on some select issues. The key however is picking and framing the issues. If what you succeed at doing is creating a Progressive equal of the conservative base that needs be pandered to before trying to be elected by the country at-large then all you accomplish is losing the Presidency while solidifying GOP control over everything else. There are progressive issues however that can be framed in ways to cut across the rural-urban divide. Stay focused on those and Democrats can keep the Presidency and make progress in weakening the GOP grip on everything else. Sanders actually might be able to do that. I am still for Clinton but I have personally come around to seeing that potential at least. ---
**Author:** ![FightMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71e660/32.png) [@FightMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FightMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/563 "2015-11-09T05:32:52Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I am a loyal Democrat, and I think party affiliation should count for something. If you’ve run against the candidates of a particular party _14 times_ during your career, long insisted you weren’t of their party, even highly criticized that party for being sellouts and much like the other major party, why - other than for sheer political expediency - run for the first time as a member of that party when you seek the Presidency? The idea of party loyalty seems rather silly to me. I vote Democratic because they have the best chance of implementing policies that are somewhat close to what I desire. I don’t vote Democratic because I’m “loyal” to the party. As for running against Democratic candidates, I again ask, why does it matter? Sanders’ positions are about as Democratic as you can get, and for progressive initiatives he can be counted on to vote with the party. Don’t forget, by the way, that he is considered a Democrat in all but name in the Senate. Re: criticizing the party, surely you recognize it is possible to be part of a political party and still offer criticism of it? If his criticism is valid (a subjective thing I admit) and well-intentional (you’ll agree with this, correct?), I don’t see the issue. Sanders is trying to call attention to issues he feels are important, and if that means trying to strengthen the progressive wing of the party, so be it. Full disclaimer: I somewhat agree with Sanders that the two parties have become fairly similar in many aspects, and the reason I vote Democrat and don’t throw away my vote on a Green is because I live in Ohio, ergo my vote could potentially matter. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/564 "2015-11-09T10:22:24Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Right just like in 2008 when Hillary was the establishment candidate and it would have been silly to consider voting for that other guy. > . Oh come on. You know the answer to that one. Obama was black. Once he pushed ahead in the polls the democrats like Hillary had no choice but to allow him. Bernie is white and a man at that. Look, blacks vote democrat at a 90% rate. Their is no other group that democrats have such a strong lead with. No way would they mess with that. That is why in the debates while Hillary and the others could have eaten Obama for lunch they didnt dare go after the mans weak record or treat him the same as they would another candidate (frankly the republicans didnt either). No, the democratic leadership wants a woman this time and they want Hillary. This is why Biden has stayed out. Its just how politics work. ---
**Author:** ![FightMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71e660/32.png) [@FightMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FightMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/565 "2015-11-09T10:52:03Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh come on. You know the answer to that one. > > Obama was black. Once he pushed ahead in the polls the democrats like Hillary had no choice but to allow him. > > Bernie is white and a man at that. > > Look, blacks vote democrat at a 90% rate. Their is no other group that democrats have such a strong lead with. No way would they mess with that. That is why in the debates while Hillary and the others could have eaten Obama for lunch they didnt dare go after the mans weak record or treat him the same as they would another candidate (frankly the republicans didnt either). > > No, the democratic leadership wants a woman this time and they want Hillary. This is why Biden has stayed out. > > Its just how politics work. Funny, I thought Obama won because he ran a superior campaign and was more charismatic… Oh wait… it’s because he was black, no way he could actually appeal to Democratic voters, right? Or operate one of the best campaigns in recent history? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/566 "2015-11-09T10:56:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh come on. You know the answer to that one. > > Obama was black. Once he pushed ahead in the polls the democrats like Hillary had no choice but to allow him. So you’re saying that the Democrats had to “allow him” to be their nominee on the basis that he was more popular - and got more votes - than Hillary? How strange. Tell me more about this idea of “democracy”. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/567 "2015-11-09T12:22:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Look, blacks vote democrat at a 90% rate. Their is no other group that democrats have such a strong lead with. No way would they mess with that. That is why in the debates while Hillary and the others could have eaten Obama for lunch they didnt dare go after the mans weak record or treat him the same as they would another candidate (frankly the republicans didnt either). > > No, the democratic leadership wants a woman this time and they want Hillary. This is why Biden has stayed out. > > Its just how politics work. First, it’s smart politics to go after important voting blocks and tailor both your message and your candidates to pick up as many votes as possible. The fact the Democrats are doing this more than the Republicans just means the GOP is collapsing as Republicans begin to regard inter-party schisms as more important than party unity. It isn’t the Democrats being dishonest, it’s the Republicans losing basic cohesiveness. Second, Obama ran a better campaign than Clinton. Coupled with the fact they’re not very far apart politically, this gave Obama a rather noticeable advantage. Clinton, as I recall, relied more on superdelegates and her position within the party, whereas Obama ran a grassroots campaign which really paid off and served him well in the general election. Third, Biden is not compelling for all the same reasons Clinton wasn’t as compelling in 2008: He’s a party functionary who isn’t distinguished in either accomplishments or policy positions and who doesn’t have the raw charisma to overcome those disadvantages. Obama’s more charismatic than Clinton, and both are more charismatic than Biden, who has the rather undeserved reputation of being gaffe-prone. In short, from a policy standpoint, you’d do just as well with Clinton, and in terms of electability, Clinton’s by far the better choice. Contrast this with the GOP, where you have Carson, Loud Carson, Rubio, Whiny Rubio, Texas Asshole, Jersey Asshole, Louisiana Asshole, Graham Cracker, Paul 2.0, and various detritus. That isn’t a strong field, it’s the field created by a party in collapse, where candidates are running to burnish their own images instead of to help their party get into power to enact the policy they think is best. The GOP has left the main sequence and has thrown off a whole shit-ton of hot air. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/568 "2015-11-09T13:06:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > First, it’s smart politics to go after important voting blocks and tailor both your message and your candidates to pick up as many votes as possible. The fact the Democrats are doing this more than the Republicans just means the GOP is collapsing as Republicans begin to regard inter-party schisms as more important than party unity. No, you have to remember that considering the interests of any demographic group other than middle-class and rich white men is “pandering”. Talking to black people? Pandering Hispanics? Pandering. Gays? Pandering. Women? Pandering. Poor people? Pandering AND bribing with free stuff. Muslims? TREASON! And pandering. White millionaires? Making America great for real hardworking patriotic Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/569 "2015-11-09T15:22:04Z")
Besides which, the Democratic advantage among women is at least comparable to the Democratic advantage among blacks. Sure, the percentage isn’t as high, but then, there are a lot more women than blacks in the country, and especially in the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/570 "2015-11-09T16:00:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Bernie is white and a man at that . . . Well, he’s a Jew. White technically, but, you know . . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/571 "2015-11-09T17:57:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So you’re saying that the Democrats had to “allow him” to be their nominee on the basis that he was more popular - and got more votes - than Hillary? How strange. Tell me more about this idea of “democracy”. No, but they did have to tread softly around him to avoid charges of racism. I mean if he had been white they would have gone after his record better. Remember 2004 when Sharpton was a democratic candidate? The guy was a total blowhard with no money and no campaign and let the democrats treated him like an equal and let him run his mouth in the debates. No white candidate would have been allowed to do this. Sadly that campaign knocked out several of my favorite democrats like Lieberman, Kucinich, and Gephardt, ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/572 "2015-11-09T19:23:14Z")
And why didn’t they have to tread equally softly around Clinton to avoid charges of sexism? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/573 "2015-11-10T05:31:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And why didn’t they have to tread equally softly around Clinton to avoid charges of sexism? I think they have from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/574 "2015-11-11T00:37:29Z")
What difference did it make if Sharpton had money? Did Harry Truman have money in his day? Does Joe Biden? You say you like Dennis Kucinich. I know he doesn’t have a bean. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/575 "2015-11-11T01:05:48Z")
Bernie Sanders cannot win the Democratic nomination. He is too radical. Too far left. Too anti-military to win. If he is the Democratic nominee, Democrats will be DESTROYED. If he wins, say hello to President Rubio, President Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/576 "2015-11-11T02:28:43Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > Bernie Sanders cannot win the Democratic nomination. He is too radical. Too far left. Too anti-military to win. If he is the Democratic nominee, Democrats will be DESTROYED. If he wins, say hello to President Rubio, President Cruz. [Socialism is suddenly hot!](http://www.salon.com/2015/11/11/socialism_is_suddenly_hot_the_unions_show_signs_of_life_is_class_consciousness_coming_to_america_at_last/) > [@](#): > > A specter is haunting America. Well, OK, not so much “haunting.” More like bugging America a little, disturbing our consumerist slumber from time to time. As specters go, it’s a spindly thing, nearly indiscernible, nowhere close to the Jacob Marley level of gruesomeness and clanking chains. At least not yet. It is, or it might be – let’s lean hard on might be — the return of the most repressed and forbidden concepts in American political life: class consciousness and class struggle. > > What lies behind the Bernie Sanders campaign and the unexpected comeback of socialism as a semi-viable political construct is arguably more interesting, and more important, than Sanders’ candidacy in itself. I’m not trying to douse you with the cold, salty water of political reality, Bernie-bros and Bernie-gals (and Bernie-others); despite the unpleasant gender-politics pissing matches, the Sanders campaign is almost entirely a good thing, and whatever discomfort it has caused Hillary Clinton and her fan base has been well worth it. But my point is that Bernie Sanders did not personally cause the Bernie Sanders moment. Conditions had to change on the ground, and in the collective consciousness, to make it possible in the first place. > > Almost no one in the middle-aged and Reagan-scarred political commentariat, myself included, saw that coming, but it’s an immensely significant shift with unpredictable long-term consequences. Those altered conditions are both material and ideological, and in my judgment those things are inextricably connected. Worsening economic inequality and its pernicious effects have become unavoidable and nearly ubiquitous. Unless your family owns more than two houses and some of them are in Aspen or Palm Beach or the south of France, you have felt the consequences personally or seen them around you. Combine that with the emergence of a generation that has no memory of the Cold War or the self-inflicted traumas of the American left – a generation that has experienced little or none of capitalism’s alleged bounties, and has been launched into adulthood burdened with unsustainable debt — and ideas or solutions formerly deemed unthinkable and unmentionable start to look pretty damn good. ---
**Author:** ![FightMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71e660/32.png) [@FightMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FightMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/577 "2015-11-11T02:47:24Z")
As much as I want to believe BrainGlutton, I really do think the man is unelectable. Unfortunate, really, because I truly believe he has the best policy proposals out of any of the candidates running. At this point, I’m trying to content myself with pushing Hillary leftward and crying myself to sleep because America will never be the social democracy paradise I so want it to be. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/578 "2015-11-11T12:16:55Z")
If he’s unelectable, then why does he consistently do better among the general electorate than Clinton against Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/579 "2015-11-11T18:01:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If he’s unelectable, then why does he consistently do better among the general electorate than Clinton against Republicans? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/580 "2015-11-11T18:05:01Z")
> [@FightMyIgnorance](#): > > As much as I want to believe BrainGlutton, I really do think the man is unelectable. Of course he’s unelectable, **this** cycle. Doesn’t matter; see post #556. And cue the Rolling Stones’ “Time Is On My Side.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=30)