# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/621 "2015-11-15T21:57:36Z")
Y’know, if we had actually passed Obamacare, we could have tested the proposition that the government couldn’t possibly compete with private insurance. The insurance companies, however, seemed to hold the exact opposite opinion, as evidenced by how hard they fought to kill Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/622 "2015-11-15T22:15:11Z")
You mean the public option? ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/623 "2015-11-15T22:56:05Z")
[quote=“wolfpup, post:620, topic:718754”] [li]A public health care system doesn’t reduce costs by “denying care”, it reduces costs by _ **providing** _ care under a cost-effective framework – specifically, by providing all medically necessary procedures under a uniform framework for everyone without question or adjudication, and without vast reams of paperwork, while managing provider costs. The cost benefits of single-payer are well established and not a matter of debate. Denying care is the specialty of profit-focused insurance businesses.[/li][/LIST] [LIST] [li]Neither unions nor anyone else would be “giving up” anything because the essential medical services that everyone unconditionally needs would be provided at a much lower cost, a fact which is well established around the world. In terms of “choice”, that’s all the choice anyone needs for basic care, and beyond that, every union or employer can offer supplemental insurance to cover all kinds of extra services, comforts. and amenities – no one is stopping them. If a union wants to provide its members with coverage for hospital accommodations resembling a five-star hotel, they can go right ahead. The only ground rule is no one should ever commercialize and fuck around with basic essential .[/li][/QUOTE] What is the mechanism by which, under single-payer, providers (hospitals, doctors, etc.) would suddenly charge only a small fraction of what they do now? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/624 "2015-11-15T23:25:23Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > What is the mechanism by which, under single-payer, providers (hospitals, doctors, etc.) would suddenly charge only a small fraction of what they do now? I never said they would “suddenly charge only a small fraction of what they do now”. But [the evidence from around the world](http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/healthcare-costs-us-oecd-data-chart2%20Chart%202.jpg) – everywhere – is that the cost savings are there. And the mechanism is two powerful and interlinked factors. One, talk to anyone who has in-depth experience with both the Canadian and US health care systems and they will tell you that the major difference they immediately see is the extraordinary burden of paperwork and interactions between doctors, patients, and insurance companies over payments, deductibles, conditions, approvals, co-pays, co-ordination with different payers and systems, etc. ad infinitum in the private system. The cost burden is immense. Doctors have staff whose sole purpose is bill collection. In the single-payer system, the patient walks in, gets treatment, walks out. Done. The second interlinked factor is that with greatly reduced overhead and guaranteed full payment providers are willing to settle for lower base fees. As well, single-payer oversight prevents gouging by setting uniform base rates. Lots of other cost-saving factors eventually work their way through the system, but briefly, those are the two major ones that result from treating coverage of medically necessary health care – not every aspect of health care, just the essential stuff – as an essential public service rather than a commercial appliance that you can only have if you can pay for it. For the superficial stuff and miscellaneous health-related comforts and amenities, knock yourself out – insure it privately if you or your employer can afford it. It’s no longer either a moral issue or a critical cost issue. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/625 "2015-11-16T01:42:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, it was ratified by all the states. There was overwhelming support for the Constitution, and those that didn’t support it wanted something even more decentralized. Ratification didn’t require supermajorities in state assemblies–just a supermajority _of_ state assemblies–and the constitution was considered ratified when only nine states had signed on. Also, Rhode Island was blatantly intimidated into it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/626 "2015-11-24T08:21:21Z")
National Nurses United (the largest union and professional association of registered nurses in the United States) has endorsed Sanders, as has the American Postal Workers Union. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/627 "2015-11-24T15:03:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > National Nurses United (the largest union and professional association of registered nurses in the United States) has endorsed Sanders, as has the American Postal Workers Union. Bernie Goes Postal! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/628 "2015-11-25T03:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > “I don’t trust the church or the government. A Democrat or a Republican. A Pope or a bishop or them other men,” he rhymed. “But after spending five hours tonight with someone who has spent the last 50 years radically fighting for your rights and mine, I can tell you that I am very proud tonight to announce the next president of the United States: Sen. Bernie Sanders.” [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/24/rapper-killer-mike-delivers-powerful-endorsement-of-bernie-sanders.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/24/rapper-killer-mike-delivers-powerful-endorsement-of-bernie-sanders.html) > [@](#): > > Born Michael Render, Killer Mike has made a powerful impact on both hip-hop and politics dating back to his work in the early 2000s with OutKast, through his more recent collaboration with El-P as Run the Jewels. During the aftermath of the uprising in Ferguson, Missouri, over the police shooting of Michael Brown, he was a regular presence on cable news and late night, speaking out against police brutality. > > On the night that a grand jury failed to indict Darren Wilson for killing Brown, Run the Jewels just happened to be performing in St. Louis. “Tonight I got kicked on my ass, when I listened to that prosecutor. You motherfuckers got me today,” an emotional Killer Mike said at the top of the show. “I have a 20-year-old son. I have a 12-year-old son. And I’m so afraid for them.” > > Killer Mike was also a prominent voice following the racist church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, when he used his Twitter account to rage against the shooter and argue that the parishioners “should have been armed.” To one critic of that stance, he shot back, “I will NEVER be pro gun control. [As long] as blacks can be killed by the state and terrorist.” > > While these comments could put him in line with Sanders when it comes to the gun issue, they could serve to further alienate the candidate from progressives who feel the Vermont senator has not been aggressive enough in opposition to the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/629 "2015-11-25T03:52:30Z")
[Sanders at Georgetown lays out, at length, exactly what he means by democratic socialism.](http://inthesetimes.com/article/18623/bernie_sanders_democratic_socialism_georgetown_speech) ---
**Author:** ![basquebromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@basquebromance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basquebromance)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/630 "2015-11-26T14:43:34Z")
[![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUiyUKPXAAAUh19.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUiyUKPXAAAUh19.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![basquebromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@basquebromance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basquebromance)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/631 "2015-11-26T14:46:06Z")
As Mayor, Bernie Sanders Was More Pragmatist Than Socialist > **[As Mayor, Bernie Sanders Was More Pragmatist Than Socialist (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/us/politics/as-mayor-bernie-sanders-was-more-pragmatic-than-socialist.html)** > > Bernie Sanders, who in the 1980s was mayor of Vermont’s largest city, Burlington, tended to talk globally but act locally, aligning with Republicans to get things done. Redacted In May, it provided a picture-perfect backdrop for Mr. Sanders to announce that he was running for president. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/632 "2015-11-26T15:24:52Z")
reported - copyright ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/633 "2015-11-26T15:25:04Z")
[Bernie Sanders’s refreshingly sane foreign policy.](http://www.salon.com/2015/11/25/bernie_sanderss_refreshingly_sane_foreign_policy/) ---
**Author:** ![basquebromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@basquebromance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basquebromance)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/634 "2015-11-26T15:31:49Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > reported - copyright I linked it ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/635 "2015-11-26T15:50:06Z")
Yes, and you also copied it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/636 "2015-11-26T18:25:09Z")
> [@basquebromance](#): > > I linked it BB, you’re new here so I’ll cut you a break. The SDMB aggressively respects copyright. Any further breaking of the rules may result in sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/637 "2015-11-26T22:05:42Z")
Tip, **basque,** from one who’s been there many times before: The Mods usually won’t spank you or touch your post if you just C&P a few paragraphs of an article. But a whole article will always get deleted, and anything approaching half or even a third of the whole article is risky. (Legal considerations of copyright do not apply to “copyleft” sources such as Wikipedia, but the Mods might still delete a whole Wiki article just for filling up too much of the screen. They consider a link usually sufficient and want nobody to have grounds for the “TL,DR” complaint.) This applies in Cafe Society too, BTW. Never post the whole lyrics of a copyrighted song. (Any song or poem more than 100 years old is probably safe.) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/638 "2015-11-27T20:22:27Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > What is the mechanism by which, under single-payer, providers (hospitals, doctors, etc.) would suddenly charge only a small fraction of what they do now? The same mechanism that allows insurance companies to write off the vast majority of your medical bill? I had a procedure last year. Got the statement. The office billed ~$8000. The insurance company wrote off ~$7400, paid $480, and billed me $50. Without insurance, I would have owed the whole $8 grand. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/639 "2015-12-07T20:04:06Z")
[Sanders wins _Time_ Person of the Year online poll.](http://time.com/4137173/bernie-sanders-time-person-of-the-year-poll-win/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/640 "2015-12-08T18:24:11Z")
[The Working Families Party Endorses Sanders for the Democratic Nomination.](http://www.thenation.com/article/working-families-party-endorses-sanders-for-democratic-nomination/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=33)