# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/81 "2015-05-05T01:11:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > But if you have never affiliated with the Democratic Party, and if you run against its candidates in your home state, why should you run for its Presidential nomination? Why not run for the Democratic Socialist nomination (if there is such a thing)? Because the DSA is not a political party. The FAQ I helpfully linked to explains this. And the DNC itself welcomed him to the race. So if the DNC doesn’t have a problem with it, I’m not sure why you should. And he is affiliated with the Democratic Party since he caucuses with them in Congress and always has. He has also been one of the fiercest critics of the Republicans in Congress. He has supported some things that the Obama administration has done while decrying others, which is unsurprising since he is an unabashed liberal and Obama is a centrist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/82 "2015-05-05T01:16:24Z")
I feel that the analysis done by [Harry Enten](http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/harry-enten/) at [fivethirtyeight.com](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanders-president-announcement-liberal-alternative-2016-democratic-primary/) is on the mark: > [@](#): > > Let’s be real right out of the gate: Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is almost certainly not going to be the Democratic nominee for president in 2016… Still, he is the type of candidate who can ensure that liberal interests are well-represented in the Democratic primary — and potentially in Clinton’s campaign platform. > > Sanders’s seriousness as a candidate could shift the dialogue in the Democratic primary. Clinton will have to at least entertain the very liberal wing of her party. There is tentative evidence from the past few primaries that having a liberal challenger ensures a nominee with ideological positions closer to the base. > > (P)rimaries can move candidates left or right. Clinton hasn’t been in politics for seven years. She is, as the Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza put it, still developing her campaign platform. Since she last ran for office, the Democratic base has become more liberal. Sanders is the type of candidate who can force Clinton to recognize that reality, even though he has pretty much no shot of winning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/83 "2015-05-05T01:24:34Z")
Also, Sanders isn’t a Socialist. He is a Democratic Socialist. They are not the same thing just as neither of them are the same thing as the National Socialist Party. The Democratic Socialists of America endorse Bernie Sanders [right on their main page](http://www.dsausa.org/). Whereas there is no mention of Sanders on the [main page for the Socialist Party USA](http://socialistparty-usa.net/index.html) and here’s the mention he recieved in a [press release](http://socialistparty-usa.net/democrats-steer-to-the-right-and-into-defeat.html) they released after last year’s midterms: > [@](#): > > Politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the limit of what the Democrats have to offer. They serve as icons to entice progressives and liberals with populist messaging and hopes of building a radical element within the Democratic Party. In reality, they are puppets meant to distract voters and activists with hopes that will never be realized in the current political alignment. So Bernie says he isn’t a Socialist and the American Socialist Party doesn’t either. It would be nice if that settled matters. But of course it won’t. Not even here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/84 "2015-05-05T01:54:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Since somebody has to say it: Splitters! As a matter of fact, the DSA, the SPUSA, and the [Social Democrats, USA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democrats,_USA) (which hardly exists at all any more even as a website) all emerged from the wreckage of and claim to be the successor of the old [Socialist Party of America](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America), which broke up in 1972 over the issue of the Vietnam War (some were against it for all the obvious reasons, others were for it because ever since 1917 the SPA had always distinguished itself from the Communist Party USA by being solidly anti-Soviet, which meant taking the Western side in all Cold War conflicts). And the Stalinist/Trotskyite split is a completely different thing from the above. Sanders has never been affiliated with **any** of these parties/organizations, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/85 "2015-05-05T02:07:19Z")
Also – and to my mind quite curiously – Sanders has never been affiliated with the [Vermont Progressive Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Progressive_Party) either, even though it originated with his campaign for Mayor of Burlington, and I can see no point on which he would disagree with it politically. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/86 "2015-05-05T02:14:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Except that it only offered one possible answer (and that by implied) to the question of why run for the Democratic party nomination under those circumstances: because the running for Socialist nomination would not get any attention … and of course attention gets money and money gets attention. Another answer is that Sanders is not running for the Socialist Party USA nomination because he has never in his political career been associated with it (see above), for reasons best known to himself. Perhaps he thinks the SPUSA an irrelevant joke – which it is, electorally – while the Democratic Party is, for all its flaws, at least a thing worth taking over or trying to, Tea-Party style. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/87 "2015-05-06T15:50:12Z")
There are two points to a Sanders candidacy: 1. To make Hillary run to the left. (Which does not mean she will govern from the left as POTUS.) 2. To [start](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/03/bernie_sanders_really_matters_he_doesnt_have_to_win_to_build_a_progressive_movement/) [something bigger](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/05/how_bernie_sanders_could_make_2016_very_very_interesting/). And Sanders has a good state-level track record there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/88 "2015-05-06T15:57:30Z")
[Hillary will have to debate Bernie six times](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/06/democrats_protect_hillary_plan_how_the_dncs_thin_debate_schedule_hands_clinton_the_advantage/) . . . . . . unless Bernie violates the [exclusivity clause](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/05/democrats-presidential-debates_n_7214218.html). > [@](#): > > Any candidate who decides to participate in the debate process must agree to do so exclusively, making them ineligible to participate in any debates organized by third-party groups. If candidates deviate from this rule, they lose the ability to take part in any remaining debates hosted by the Democratic Party. > > A senior adviser to one 2016 campaign told The Huffington Post that the exclusivity clause came as a “complete shock.” Officials from the DNC, the adviser said, had assured all likely Democratic presidential campaigns when negotiations over the debate schedule began months ago that no such clause would be used. The adviser further argued that holding only six debates would be disadvantageous to candidates who have relatively low name-recognition across the country. > > DNC Communications Director Mo Elleithee acknowledged that the clause wasn’t a part of the early negotiation process, but maintained that all options were left on the table. He further argued that voters would ultimately be best served by a controlled debate schedule. WT **F?!** ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/89 "2015-05-06T16:12:15Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Correct me if I am wrong, but Americans politicians of that age bracket are mainly Republicans. American voters in that age bracket have mainly been Republicans for a long time. The fact is, I’m in my 70’s, rather well off, and I would never vote for any Republican. They want to damage social security, medicare, ACA, education, job training, infrastructure projects, etc. etc…why do any people vote for them? I can’t figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/90 "2015-05-06T16:45:23Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > The fact is, I’m in my 70’s, rather well off… That’s why people in your age bracket vote for Republicans. They believe that the Democrats want to take their money away in the form of taxation (to be used for social security, ACA, medicare, etc.) Some of them actually benefit from those programs, but don’t seem to see the disconnect. Other older Americans fondly remember a time when their more conservative social values were the openly expressed societal norm (although not necessarily the actual societal norm). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/91 "2015-05-06T17:36:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [6 issues differentiating Sanders from Clinton.](http://www.thenation.com/blog/205865/6-degrees-separation-between-bernie-sanders-and-hillary-clinton) One is a wild-eyed radical, badly out of touch with everything the American republic stands for. The other is from Vermont. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/92 "2015-05-06T17:57:28Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > That’s why people in your age bracket vote for Republicans. They believe that the Democrats want to take their money away in the form of taxation (to be used for social security, ACA, medicare, etc.) Some of them actually benefit from those programs, but don’t seem to see the disconnect. > > Other older Americans fondly remember a time when their more conservative social values were the openly expressed societal norm (although not necessarily the actual societal norm). OTOH, some older Americans have fond memories of the New Deal and the Great Society. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/93 "2015-05-06T19:54:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder which candidate Warren will endorse now? That would be an interesting test for Warren, who by any standard she professes to believe in, _should_ endorse Sanders. But I think it’s more likely she’ll just withhold any endorsement past the time Sanders drops out, and then endorse Hilary when there are no other choices left. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/94 "2015-05-06T19:58:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > My wife’s from Vermont and I knew quite a bit about Sanders even before now. I agree with him on quite a few issues. But if you have never affiliated with the Democratic Party, and if you run against its candidates in your home state, why should you run for its Presidential nomination? Why not run for the Democratic Socialist nomination (if there is such a thing)? Because he’s not an idiot? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/95 "2015-05-06T20:06:03Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > That would be an interesting test for Warren, who by any standard she professes to believe in, _should_ endorse Sanders. I’m sure she has her role in the script. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/96 "2015-05-06T20:20:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > That would be an interesting test for Warren, who by any standard she professes to believe in, _should_ endorse Sanders. > > But I think it’s more likely she’ll just withhold any endorsement past the time Sanders drops out, and then endorse Hilary when there are no other choices left. That really makes more sense. Or simply, “I will give the Democratic nominee my full support.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/97 "2015-05-07T02:19:48Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > That’s why people in your age bracket vote for Republicans. They believe that the Democrats want to take their money away in the form of taxation (to be used for social security, ACA, medicare, etc.) Some of them actually benefit from those programs, but don’t seem to see the disconnect. > > Other older Americans fondly remember a time when their more conservative social values were the openly expressed societal norm (although not necessarily the actual societal norm). Actually, no, what I was saying was that there aren’t a lot Democratic candidates from the Baby Boomers and Generation X, because there aren’t a lot of Democrats compared to Republicans (or vaguely minarchist independents) in those age brackets. It’s not the over-70 group that are the problem. It’s the Me Generation and their shell-shocked children that grew up in their aftermath. The Baby Boomers voted in Reagan and tried to replace both labor unions and the state with big dollop of Jesus-flavored guacamole. Gen X, their children and younger siblings, are a generation of individualism, cynicism, and despair. We grew up on death metal and Stephen King. We outnumber the Baby Boomers, but we don’t think we do. Our waters filled up with medical waste and we shrugged. We are not capable of civic engagement as a generation. The politicians in our age bracket are in it for the “business” model of politics: Give the donors what they pay you for. If you dare to hope in anything larger than yourself, business, or a fast buck, we’ll beat it out of you. And if you talk about raising taxes to accomplish anything, we will laugh at you. The world doesn’t work that way, and no one can reinstitute any abandoned tax program, including progressive taxation, in a modern democracy. My corner of the country may be non-standard, but I’m not sure I haven’t met more Ron Paul libertarians among my peers than New Deal Democrats. In time, we shall pound the idealism out of the Global Teens and the Millennials if we have to set them on fire. Who are they to think they get a living wage? The world sucks ass and then you die. Good luck, Bernie, but you simply don’t have a constituency here in God’s Own Hell. You’re the last gasp of a dead social liberal idea. ETA: Or maybe that’s just my weird corner of the country. It does seem like things are starting to turn around for labor in this country. Maybe there’s hope. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/98 "2015-05-07T04:06:33Z")
My goodness, I’m Generation X and I’m not cynical. I might be fair exhausted though. There are so many fights that I’m surrounded! I don’t know where to aim my time, my money and my energy. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/99 "2015-05-07T04:41:55Z")
I really hope I have a distorted viewpoint on this. And generational personalities are kind of a joke. But yeah, I feel like I’m in a lost generation somehow. Granted, I think it’s not really a Gen X thing, exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/100 "2015-05-07T09:36:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > One is a wild-eyed radical, badly out of touch with everything the American republic stands for. The other is from Vermont. > > Regards, > Shodan I know quite a few Democrats who _wish_ she was a radical. But no, she’s a hawkish corporatist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=6)