# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1301 "2016-05-17T20:05:58Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > 30 grand a year is not a lot, even in Vermont. Especially when 60 grand of it went directly to the purchase of ads. > > Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk So it’s just small time corruption. And thirty grand would nearly double my family’s income, and there are six of us…so I’m not so down with this dismissal of it as chump change. :dubious: I think we know now why they have been hiding their tax returns. I guess Bernie didn’t turn out to be so similar to Robespierre “The Incorruptible” after all. It may seem like I’m gloating, but I’m actually sad to see people like my sixteen year old starry-eyed Bernhead son get their idealism get crushed like this. I hope it doesn’t just turn them off politics altogether. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1302 "2016-05-17T20:21:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > . > It may seem like I’m gloating, but I’m actually sad to see people like my sixteen year old starry-eyed Bernhead son get their idealism get crushed like this. I hope it doesn’t just turn them off politics altogether. Unless they were ever going to vote against your preferred candidate. In that case you’d be perfectly happy if it turned them off politics forever. Look, the school closing looks bad. It looks like their “free education” is coming from people clueless about running a school. But I have trouble calling his wife getting paid for working on the camapign “small time corruption”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1303 "2016-05-17T20:34:45Z")
$30K in consulting fees? Get real. How much do you think Manafort is getting for 7 months’ work? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1304 "2016-05-17T20:39:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Unless they were ever going to vote against your preferred candidate. In that case you’d be perfectly happy if it turned them off politics forever. Huh? Unless you mean that it turned them Republican, no. Even if they go vote for Jill Stein, that’s no worse than not voting at all (and probably better, assuming they also vote for Democrats downballot). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1305 "2016-05-17T20:53:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Huh? Unless you mean that it turned them Republican, no. Lol. And if 30k over 2- 3 years would double your family of 6’s income then maybe you should spend less time slacking. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1306 "2016-05-17T21:17:56Z")
Josh Marshall at TPM [today](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/big-picture--5), emphasis in original: [INDENT][INDENT]It is worth noting the big picture here. Every day the Sanders and Clinton camps spend going apeshit at each other rather than beginning the work of unifying Democrats and progressives of all stripes into a coalition to keep Donald Trump out of the White House is a lost day. The primary campaign is demonstrably over. Hillary Clinton won, with pledged delegates. Whether you like that fact or don’t like it doesn’t change the fact itself. Whoever you think is right or wrong about this blow up in Nevada, building more acrimony and resentment _ **after the fight is already over** _ is a bad day for the Democrats and their prospects in November. [/INDENT][/INDENT] I disapprove of the tone of the posts of dalej42 and SlackerInc on the previous page. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t see my posts as needing to have a specific aim as far as trying to “accomplish” anything except for expressing what I think or feel about something. Hey likewise so it’s all good, right? Bernie really needs to level up now. The race is over, we need to pivot to the endgame. Of course there is no endgame in politics, not really. But ISTM that Bernie has lost focus on the medium run, never mind the long run. Which is too bad. [Krugman](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/democratic-groundhog-day/?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0): [INDENT][INDENT]But here’s the thing: a lot of Sanders supporters don’t understand this reality — 29 percent still believe that he’s the likely nominee, and another 11 percent aren’t sure.[/INDENT][/INDENT] 29+11=40 percent. That’s a problem. Over in Las Vegas, there was a full scale freak-out: Bernie needs to step up and tell his supporters _and his proxies_ that’s it’s time to pivot to the next stage in the plan. [Sobering complaint to DNC](https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/nv-democrats-file-complaint-against-sanders-campaign-dnc): [INDENT][INDENT]We write to alert you to what we perceive as the Sander Campaign’s penchant for extra-parliamentary behavior—indeed, actual violence—in place of democratic conduct in a convention setting, and furthermore what we can only describe as their encouragement of, and complicity in, a very dangerous atmosphere that ended in chaos and physical threats to fellow Democrats." “…At no time did any Sanders representative make anything more than token gestures towards peace in the hall, and at the times of most intense crisis offered little more than shrugs and smirks.” [/INDENT][/INDENT] > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > But I will always believe that Bernie Sanders is/was the best candidate. I’m feel a little upset that people didn’t see what I saw in him. Or didn’t perceive him the way I did. > > He’ll always be a great person in my eyes. I’m happy to have gotten to know him. He really inspires me to be more. If he gets 1000 folks to run at the local level, that would be amazing. But Bernie supporters need to understand that the Democratic Party needs to become a big tent, so as to attract centrists and even neuro-typical conservatives. Also socialists. I’m not kidding. > [@dalej42](#): > > But pandering too much to Sanders will drive away reliable suburban voters who are repulsed by Trump but are educated enough to be frightened of Bernie’s idiotic economic policies of unicorns and fairy dust. Horsepucky. Sanders isn’t advocating anything that hasn’t been _tested_ in Scandinavia. This is _nothing_ like Libertaria fantasies of societies that don’t exist anywhere, never have and never could. You may not like his policies - I disagree with Sanders on several points - but they have a firm empirical foundation. A big tent Democratic Party ushering in an advance in American strength, prosperity and social welfare is viable. We know this because there’s been exactly this sort of advance during the Obama administration. Not far enough. But the numbers on health insurance coverage and changes in unemployment don’t lie nor is the fact that big corporations are divesting to avoid Too Big To Fail regulatory status. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1307 "2016-05-17T21:41:21Z")
[Bernie Sanders’ campaign’s official response](https://berniesanders.com/press-release/statement-nevada/) to the Nevada convention brouhaha. Excerpt: > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy. I’m done with the “He won’t be the nominee, but I’m glad he’s still in the race” malarkey. His “revolution” is curdling and so is he. Clinton stayed in the race way longer than she should have in 2008 but I don’t recall her rhetoric ever sinking to these kinds of depths. Sanders is contributing nothing anymore except to reinforce to a bunch of (mostly young and idealistic) would-be Democratic voters that the system is irredeemably corrupt, and unsalvageable without him at its head. This is no longer about normalizing the concepts of single-payer health or free college tuition to a moderate electorate; this is a personal crusade fueled by self-righteousness, entitlement and spite. It needs to end. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1308 "2016-05-17T22:01:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Lol. > > And if 30k over 2- 3 years would double your family of 6’s income then maybe you should spend less time slacking. I said nearly double, and I obviously meant in one year, but it’s nice to see how quickly a Bernie supporter can slip into snide classism when it’s dealing with someone who isn’t on the team. Do you realize when you use this jibe that your hero became a dad in 1969 and spent the next decade plus as way more of a broke-ass slacker than I have ever been since my kids were born? Pfffft. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1309 "2016-05-17T22:07:25Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Sanders is contributing nothing anymore except to reinforce to a bunch of (mostly young and idealistic) would-be Democratic voters that the system is irredeemably corrupt, and unsalvageable without him at its head. This is no longer about normalizing the concepts of single-payer health or free college tuition to a moderate electorate; this is a personal crusade fueled by self-righteousness, entitlement and spite. It needs to end. QFT. He isn’t even willing to condemn _violence and death threats_, as long as they’re by his acolytes. It’s breathtaking how he and his supporters have been doing pretty much everything they predicted Clinton would, but has not. In addition to ego and spite, on the part of his followers as well as himself, you can name projection. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1310 "2016-05-17T22:15:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > QFT. He isn’t even willing to condemn _violence and death threats_, as long as they’re by his acolytes. > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that _ **I condemn any and all forms of violence** _, including the personal harassment of individuals. > > [Sanders Statement on Nevada](https://berniesanders.com/press-release/statement-nevada/) (Emphasis mine since maybe you missed it.) That’s okay. I’m sure you’ll move the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1311 "2016-05-17T22:17:06Z")
I meant (obviously, I thought) the specific acts by his specific people, not some generica that does not really address the situation, and can be read as encouraging more of it. I do understand what appears to be your own difficulty in accepting who he has shown himself to really be. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1312 "2016-05-17T22:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bernie Sanders] Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. [/QUOTE] Weasel words. Sanders does not acknowledge any wrongdoing by any of his supporters despite the fact that they’re literally threatening the lives of political opponents, and takes the opportunity to instead complain about acts of violence carried out against his own campaign, for which there is (as yet) no apparent corroboration. That one line aside, the entirety of Sanders’ message is that the Democratic Party needs to acknowledge his supporters as the true standard-bearers of progress in the Democratic Party, and respect them accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1313 "2016-05-17T22:30:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I meant (obviously, I thought) the specific acts by his specific people, not some generica that does not really address the situation, and can be read as encouraging more of it. Yep. Goalposts moved. And not very well since the comments are specifically in text he just issued today entitled “Sanders Statement on Nevada” which was the situation and him addressing it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1314 "2016-05-17T22:32:59Z")
They were not moved. The whole time they’ve been in a place where we were expecting that he would make some acknowledgement that his delegates engaged in wrongdoing. There is no such acknowledgement of this whatsoever in that statement, and in fact most of it is a complaint that his people were not treated better. It’s seriously fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1315 "2016-05-17T22:35:18Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Yep. Goalposts moved. You’re going to think what you want to think, I know. But you know this was a leadership test for Sanders, and that he failed it badly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1316 "2016-05-17T22:38:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re going to think what you want to think, I know. But you know this was a leadership test for Sanders, and that he failed it badly. I’m sure he’s crushed you feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1317 "2016-05-17T22:39:10Z")
Harry Reid just said on NPR that he is “hopeful and confident that [Sanders] will do the right thing”. WILL do. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1318 "2016-05-17T22:40:11Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I’m sure he’s crushed you feel that way. Well he doesn’t appear to care what any actual democrats think, which is confusing since he decided to run as one… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1319 "2016-05-17T22:43:34Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > [Bernie Sanders’ campaign’s official response](https://berniesanders.com/press-release/statement-nevada/) to the Nevada convention brouhaha. Excerpt: > > I’m done with the “He won’t be the nominee, but I’m glad he’s still in the race” malarkey. His “revolution” is curdling and so is he. Clinton stayed in the race way longer than she should have in 2008 but I don’t recall her rhetoric ever sinking to these kinds of depths. Sanders is contributing nothing anymore except to reinforce to a bunch of (mostly young and idealistic) would-be Democratic voters that the system is irredeemably corrupt, and unsalvageable without him at its head. This is no longer about normalizing the concepts of single-payer health or free college tuition to a moderate electorate; this is a personal crusade fueled by self-righteousness, entitlement and spite. It needs to end. Yep – count me among those who say “Show’s over, Bernie.” I have been among those who’ve been appreciative of his message, but his candidacy to nowhere makes it increasingly clear that he is becoming a major liability for the democratic party nominee and for the progressive movement. He reminds me of Herb Stempel on the movie Quiz Show: he’s so in love with himself now that he can’t play by the same rules that gave him the very attention he so craves. So what does he do? He sabotages everyone else around him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1320 "2016-05-17T22:43:43Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I’m sure he’s crushed you feel that way. His own feelings matter only to the extent that he’s willing to step up and show some leadership, show he believes in a party and a society and a country bigger than himself. Do you think he will, or even can? Do you think those of his supporters who think the actions in Nevada were at all justified can do that either.? Do you think \*you \*can? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=67)