# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1681 "2016-06-09T11:54:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … Even if they did somehow rise to extreme national prominence, the fact is that all this would accomplish is splitting the left-of-center vote between two parties, while the right-wingers celebrate the ability to win elections with a mere 45%/40%/35% of the vote. Principles matter, but principles without pragmatism is just so much piss in the wind. By voting Stein in the upcoming election, you are _not_ furthering liberal ideals. All you’re doing is letting your principles blind you to what needs to be done… This. How much damage can be done in four years with Supreme Court appointments. Rollback of the ACA. Rollback of EPA regulations and a denial of global warming. I’m not saying Hillary will stop global warming, but at least she won’t put policies in place that accelerate it. She may not have the political clout to get UHC - or even expand the ACA (though there, I think she might), but she won’t let it go without a fight. And she’ll get the chance to appoint a few justices - ones that think that people being able to vote is important, and a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body, and gay people should not be discriminated against, and ‘freedom of religion’ doesn’t mean you get to discriminate against me or shove your religion down my throat, or that Sheriff Arpaio should get to run his own little anti-Hispanic harassment society under the pretense of law. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1682 "2016-06-09T12:06:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or they could recognize the role that third parties actually play in US politics - to get an agenda item that hasn’t been ITHO sufficiently embraced by the real parties in the public eye. If they ever get enough support to be taken seriously, the party closer to that agenda item co-opts it. > > Politically, the Greens (who BTW are just poll noise) are trying to get the Democrats to move a bit left. They aren’t trying to gain power themselves, and they’re succeeding very well at not doing it. They’re also doing so in the worst, most destructive way possible. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1683 "2016-06-09T12:22:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Nobody accused him of a switcheroo, I’m sure he’s been entirely consistent with his ridiculous position. He mentioned he was raised Republican. So–no switcheroo at all. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1684 "2016-06-09T16:45:26Z")
The asshat Sanders just announced he will compete in the DC primary and he expects the California votes to narrow the gap. Screw you yet again Bernie Sanders. I can’t think of a place with worse demographics for you than DC. Hopefully you’ll get crushed 90-10. It doesn’t matter if you lose California by 9,10, or 11 points, you got your ass kicked. ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1685 "2016-06-09T17:29:42Z")
He’ll last through the DC primary, since that’s what he said he was going to do. Promises after that, though, have all been in terms of advancing his issues or positions. He’ll be able to withdraw from the field and endorse Clinton without losing face. What’s the other option? Between June 14th and July 25th, what would his campaign actually do? He can’t hold rallies in states that haven’t voted yet, because there aren’t any. He can’t air television ads urging people to vote for him, because that’s all done. The only conceivable tactic he has is to convince superdelegates to switch their votes, which (A) isn’t going to happen, and (B) isn’t the kind of thing you hold rallies for. It’s all phone calls and coffee meetings, and that doesn’t get you on TV, and it doesn’t advance the cause for the issues that Sanders obviously cares a great deal about. Even if Sanders was driven enough to hold on and not concede until Philadelphia, I doubt whether even his fervor would be enough to sustain a campaign for a month and a half with essentially nothing visible going on. At a certain point people would just stop showing up to hear his stump speech when there’s no call to action associated with it. There are no doors to knock on and no phone banks to staff. Volunteers and activists remain engaged when there’s something tangible to do. Shares in Bernie Influence stock are at an all-time high right now but will only go down from here. He’s a smart man; he knows to spend his coin now when it’s worth the most. If he can get a major reform in the Democratic primary process publicly endorsed by Clinton and other top Democrats, he can rightfully point to a big victory for his side. That’s something that can be done now, not next January, and it’ll be good red meat to serve to his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1686 "2016-06-09T18:01:04Z")
Well, Sanders is not bowing out just yet, but, [after meeting with Obama, he pledges to work with Clinton to defeat Trump](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/282887-sanders-pledges-to-work-to-defeat-trump-after-meeting-obama). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1687 "2016-06-09T18:36:39Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > It doesn’t matter if you lose California by 9,10, or 11 points, you got your ass kicked. 12.6, or twice the maximum possible margin predicted by the polls… So much for the statistical dead heat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1688 "2016-06-09T19:08:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, Sanders is not bowing out just yet, but, [after meeting with Obama, he pledges to work with Clinton to defeat Trump](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/282887-sanders-pledges-to-work-to-defeat-trump-after-meeting-obama). I think this was essentially an admission that he plans to drop out after the last primary (DC) and endorse her. And I’m fine with that, assuming he doesn’t attack her from now until then. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1689 "2016-06-09T19:28:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So principles don’t matter? The only non stupid or good vote is for the Democrats? It’s this exact point of view that makes it hard for people to want to work with those in other parties. He said they are evil or incompetent. Even if you don’t think they’re evil, then they’re very incompetent. If the Green Party spend its time and resources that they used to get access for presidential candidates that will get about 1% of the vote and instead used that to try and get local candidates elected, that’s where takes a real Grassroots take hold. You said a lot of negative things about Sanders all the time. But guess what? He did it the right way. As an independent he moved from mayor to the house to senator to getting nearly 45% off the boat for the Democratic nomination for president. The Green Party could have success stories like that, dead they put no effort into it because long-term planning and thinking locally isn’t nearly as sexy as vanity spoiler runs for an office they will never win. Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1690 "2016-06-09T22:32:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yeah, that’s what it is. Bernie. Yeah. Must be. Not the last 24 years of the Clintons turning the Democratic Party into a guaranteed loser hated by self-described “patriotic Americans.” Guaranteed loser? You have a short memory: When Bill came onto the scene, there was talk that Democrats would never win the White House again. You may not like how Bill took the Democrats to a center position in 1992, but the fact is that he was just about as liberal a candidate who could have won under the circumstances. Additionally, you lumping in Hillary with her husband doesn’t take into account that [she is far more liberal than he was](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/democrats-too-liberal-for-bill-clinton-118555), mostly because she can be, and was before Sanders insurgence helped move her a little more to the left: > [@](#): > > Thhe biggest irony of the 2016 campaign is Hillary Clinton running as the sort of liberal Bill Clinton once ran against. The Democratic party has moved too far left to accept the former president, or at least the version of Bill Clinton that dominated Democratic politics back in the 1990s. > > Democrats lost five out of the six presidential elections between 1968 and 1988, going 0-for-3 by the time Clinton ran in 1992. There was a lot of talk at the time about the GOP holding a “lock” on the Electoral College. Clinton and other so-called New Democrats thought they could regain voter trust by taking a tougher line on social and spending issues. Hillary Clinton is doing the opposite. > > Barney Frank, the liberal former congressman from Massachusetts, makes this point explicitly in his recent memoir. “At the time, many on the left believed he was ‘too moderate,’” Frank writes. “In the political climate of the times, I continued to believe that Bill Clinton was the most liberal electable president.” And who cares what ‘self-described patriotic Americans’ think? If anyone goes out of their way to call themselves a “Patriot,” I assume that they play for the NFL team based out of New England or are an [idiot](http://www.kingsport.org/couponHeader_dixie.jpg) who is more likely to support Trump against anyone so who the Democrats nominated is irrelevant. > [@](#): > > Hey, do you remember Ross Perot? You know how he got a bunch of previously Democratic voters to vote for him & not Mr Clinton because of NAFTA? More memory problems - H. Ross Perot was a player in the 1992 election receiving 19% of the vote and ostensibly taking some support away from Clinton in a race against an unpopular incumbent Republican. NAFTA was in 1994. After that. Yes, in 1996 Perot ran again, but he didn’t take much support away from Democrats at that point (or the Republicans for that matter since he got less than eight and half percent at the polls). > [@](#): > > Yeah, those voters are largely still around. And they’re going to break for Trump by _huuuge_ margins. Assuming you are correct, since Bill didn’t need them to win by over 8 points (and 220 electoral votes) what makes you think Hillary needs them in 2016? And with an electorate that is a hell of a lot more diverse than it was two decades ago? > [@](#): > > It’s sad that you think she can win. It’s funny, but it’s sad. She is [ahead in most of the polls](http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton) and the [demographics of the electorate](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-2016-race-an-electoral-college-edge-for-democrats/2015/03/15/855f2792-cb3c-11e4-a2a7-9517a3a70506_story.html) and the fact that we use an electoral college to decide who wins is very favorable to any Democrat against any Republican. And that polling took place before Obama just endorsed (and will campaign for) Clinton and before Sanders has officially left the race and started voicing support for her (which he will). Hilary may not be “any” Democrat but neither is Trump “any” Republican. Nate Silver says at this point [Clinton has a 75% chance of winning](http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/05/15/nate-silver-answers-critics-of-trump-call.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/). There’s a reason for this. Now, the election is five months away. A terror attack on US soil or a huge economic downturn could happen and that will make it harder for Clinton to win. Fortunately those are not likely to happen; also it’s not likely that Trump will be able to go five months without saying something stupid or racist or horrible that he loses some support he might have otherwise received. There is no reason to be as definitive that Clinton will lose at this juncture in the race. There is far more evidence to think the opposite but even I caution those who say that the election is in the bag for Hillary that such a statement is premature. Anyone who feels the opposite feels that way because of dogma, not actual facts. Which explains your stance perfectly since the few “facts” you posted above were wrong but I am sure that won’t dissuade you. Facts rarely do dissuade True Believers. It usually emboldens them. So have at it, but know that you’re actually wrong about almost everything. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1691 "2016-06-09T23:02:57Z")
Nate Silver said Trump had very little chance of getting this far so I would not put too much stock into what he says now. But I agree for now Clinton is favored. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1692 "2016-06-09T23:08:45Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Nate Silver said Trump had very little chance of getting this far so I would not put too much stock into what he says now. But I agree for now Clinton is favored. The problem is, Trump is like some kind of exotic matter that does not obey the known laws of physics. But Clinton is normal baryonic matter that does. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1693 "2016-06-09T23:25:00Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Nate Silver said Trump had very little chance of getting this far so I would not put too much stock into what he says now. But I agree for now Clinton is favored. Nate has adjusted his predictions as we went along. It’s not at 25% based on what we know. Trump may still overcome some trends but it will be tough for him to overcome the [built-in Democratic advantage](http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-only-thing-that-matters/): > [@](#): > > Our new map is one that will evolve, maybe substantially, after the conventions. Remember that independent and/or third-party candidates could change the calculus. Nonetheless, [here](http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/content/images//2016_03_31_pres.png) is our extra-early, ridiculously premature projection of the Electoral College map in a possible Hillary Clinton-Donald Trump matchup. > > Election analysts prefer close elections, but there was nothing we could do to make this one close. Clinton’s total is 347 electoral votes, which includes 190 safe, 57 likely, and 100 that lean in her direction. Trump has a total of 191 (142 safe, 48 likely, and 1 leans). > > Trump supporters and some independent analysts assert that his appeal to many blue-collar whites in Rust Belt states (such as Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) could pull these states’ electoral votes into the Republican column. The problem is, there is little evidence that the non-college voters supporting Trump in the primaries are defectors from the Democrats; most have been backing GOP candidates fairly consistently, so the net addition for Trump could be small. Nor do we buy the theory that increased Republican primary turnout this year means Trump is going to bring out millions more white and primarily male voters that weren’t excited by John McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012. Maybe there will be higher white male voter participation, but there will probably be augmented, heavily Democratic minority turnout to balance it. Additionally, some white voters, particularly those with higher incomes and levels of education who may have voted for Romney, might have a hard time pulling the lever for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1694 "2016-06-09T23:29:45Z")
I also think it’s funny how people think it’s so great Silver got 49 states right. Almost anyone can get ~40 states right. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1695 "2016-06-09T23:33:55Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I also think it’s funny how people think it’s so great Silver got 49 states right. Almost anyone can get ~40 states right. He got 99 out of 100 the past two elections. That would be 95% better than someone who got 40 states right each time. If you think you can do better, go at it. But there’s a big difference between what you say “almost anyone” could guess and what he actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1696 "2016-06-09T23:50:29Z")
I just don’t buy the "Silver walks on water " stuff. He was totally wrong on Trump for months. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1697 "2016-06-09T23:51:01Z")
Okay, thanks for your opinion. This article about [why he was wrong](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-i-acted-like-a-pundit-and-screwed-up-on-donald-trump/) about Trump is quite illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1698 "2016-06-10T00:21:24Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I just don’t buy the "Silver walks on water " stuff. He was totally wrong on Trump for months. His track record for early in the primaries is not great. His track record for general elections for President is superb. He hasn’t started predicting this general election yet, but when he does, I’ll listen. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1699 "2016-06-10T01:11:23Z")
I’ve supported Sanders, not so much because I thought that he could win the primaries, but because he could change the conversation. He ended up doing much better than I ever thought he would. Because of my support, I’ve associated with a number of Sanders supporters both online and face to face, and lately I’ve become more and more disgusted with some of them. They talk about principles as if they had a clue about real principles. Real principles mean that you act in ways that have a chance of achieving the best plausible outcome, not in some sort of self-righteous destructive “I’m above it all” manner that achieves nothing and possibly helps in achieving the _worst_ plausible outcome. They love to say that “choosing the lesser evil is still choosing evil”. Well guess what? Many, if not most, of life’s decisions consist of a choice between greater and lesser evils. If you insist on all or nothing, then you’ll usually get nothing. How can someone claim to have true liberal principles but then risk having a right wing SCOTUS for a generation? I’ve heard some say that they couldn’t sleep with themselves if they voted for Hillary. Yet they can sleep with themselves if they risk the leftward gains that have be fought for for decades? The Republicans love the “Bernie or bust” attitude. They understand our dysfunctional electoral system. I wish more on the left did. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/1700 "2016-06-10T01:22:28Z")
I have a feeling that Trump’s wonderful, loving personality will bring out enough extra minority and women anti-Trump voters to more than counterbalance the Bernie-or-bust crowd, or what’s left of it come November. Add in the small minority of ethical and informed Republicans who will vote against him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=86)