# 2016 Bernie Sanders (D-VT) campaign for POTUS thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754 "2015-04-28T22:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/161 "2015-06-18T16:25:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She’s trying to be believable. She’s urging the President to get the best deal he can, one that protects workers and the environment and she hasn’t read it so she can’t give a definitive answer yet. > > I’ll give her team credit, that’s not terrible politics. But those of us who actually follow this stuff know she supports TPP, and she’ll take a deal that’s less than what she’s calling for if she has to. And she might have a real point. I think she’s probably a much better negotiator than Obama is, so she might be frustrated with his negotiating and unwilling to support him unconditionally precisely because she thinks she can do better. There should be a bingo card for Fox News talking points – “Obama = terrible negotiator” would be a great fit for the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/162 "2015-06-18T16:35:14Z")
Except that anyone who thinks that Obama personally negotiated the pact is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/163 "2015-06-18T16:37:37Z")
My point is that the relationship between campaign rhetoric and governing is more complicated than **adaher** suggests. It’s not a 1:1 relationship, obviously. But it’s also incorrect to imply that campaign rhetoric isn’t relevant at all to assessing how a candidate will behave in office. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/164 "2015-06-19T01:33:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Except that anyone who thinks that Obama personally negotiated the pact is an idiot. True. Guess who did? Hillary Clinton. She was for it before she wasn’t sure about it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/165 "2015-06-22T20:29:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. Guess who did? Hillary Clinton. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/166 "2015-06-22T20:42:34Z")
> **[Hillary Clinton's Record of Advocacy and Support of the TPP](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/06/17/1393899/-Hillary-Clinton-s-Record-of-Advocacy-and-Support-of-the-TPP)** > > I am linking the full contents of the source document as I wrote it and administer the group on facebook. > > On the Transpacific Partnership; the trade deal that will cost American jobs, give power ... ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/167 "2015-06-23T14:47:06Z")
**adaher** quoting _Daily Kos_??? :eek: My god, it _is_ the End Times. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/168 "2015-06-23T18:35:39Z")
If you want good bitching about Clinton, you can’t beat the liberal sites. It helps that 99% of their bitching is about true stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/169 "2015-06-23T18:42:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Hillary Clinton's Record of Advocacy and Support of the TPP](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/17/1393899/-Hillary-Clinton-s-Record-of-Advocacy-and-Support-of-the-TPP) On a cursory read-through, I see nothing in there to suggest Hillary thinks that Obama personally negotiated the pact. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/170 "2015-06-23T18:46:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you want good bitching about Clinton, you can’t beat the liberal sites. It helps that 99% of their bitching is about true stuff. But, only about 10% of that will be stuff the Pub nominee will be able to touch with a pole. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/171 "2015-06-23T18:53:15Z")
The dishonesty complaint is non-partisan though. BrainGlutton, SHE was Secretary of State. She played a big role in negotiating and promoting the treaty. Please don’t tell me that you believe for a second that she won’t fully support TPP once elected. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/172 "2015-06-30T02:42:29Z")
Amy Goodman on why Sanders will be the next President: > **[Why Bernie Sanders Will Become the Democratic Nominee and Defeat Any...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-bernie-sanders-will-become-the-democratic-nominee_b_7685364)** > > If Democrats simply vote based on their value system, Bernie Sanders can easily win the presidency. If they nominate Hillary Clinton out of despair, thinking this is still 1999, then email scandals and an Iraq War vote could mitigate any advantages a... ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/173 "2015-06-30T04:55:53Z")
You know, something just occurred to me: in the general election, the Republican nominee, to counter Sanders, would have to come out against what he believes in. If what he believes in polls well enough on its own, is it really enough to call him a socialist? I mean, yes, the nominee could go a certain distance by saying, “no, minimum wage workers don’t deserve paid leave” or what have you on a dozen different issues, but how much? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/174 "2015-06-30T06:48:35Z")
People deserve to be paid when not working? Interesting concept. I don’t think it will poll as well as you suspect. Then there’s his call for a government takeover of health care. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/175 "2015-06-30T09:58:06Z")
That was just an example off the top of my head. My broader point still stands: his individual stances seem to be relatively popular/populist as far as I can tell, which makes me wonder how the eventual Republican nominee would counter besides yelling “socialist” and arguing that voters who would benefit from X really don’t deserve it. I’m sure Sanders’ proposals for paying for his policies could be attacked/twisted, for example. But just saying over and over “minimum wage workers are just too lazy to get better jobs,” for example, is going to do more harm than good at a certain point. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/176 "2015-06-30T16:40:39Z")
Ah, I read you. But you also hit on the problem. All policies have costs, and nearly all policies sound good when you don’t consider the costs. Sanders is a commensurate tax and spender. His time was the 1970s. Today, even the social democracies he extols the virtues of have moved on from those days. Sanders can beat Clinton, assuming no one more appealing to the base(like Liz Warren) jumps in. But he’s George McGovern in a Presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/177 "2015-06-30T16:44:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sanders is a commensurate tax and spender. His time was the 1970s. So was the time of the phrase “tax and spend”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/178 "2015-06-30T17:07:04Z")
Liberals don’t like accurate phrases do they? Oh yeah, the new thing is “revenue enhancements and investments”. Wow, that’s really intended to enlighten, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/179 "2015-06-30T17:18:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals don’t like accurate phrases do they? Oh yeah, the new thing is “revenue enhancements and investments”. Wow, that’s really intended to enlighten, isn’t it? No, it’s just that “tax and spend” is no more than a silly and uninformative political moniker. Every politician taxes and spends. And each tax should be evaluated on its merits, as should each expenditure. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754/180 "2015-06-30T17:37:36Z")
Is “Repeal and replace!” an accurate phrase? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-bernie-sanders-d-vt-campaign-for-potus-thread/718754.md?page=10)