# 2016 CA Marijuana Legalization Ballot Initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425 "2015-07-17T16:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/21 "2015-07-19T20:53:36Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > On what basis? Which Article or Amendment gives Congress the authority to ban marijuana for all purposes? Article VI, Clause 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof… shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/22 "2015-07-19T21:12:43Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > On what basis? Which Article or Amendment gives Congress the authority to ban marijuana for all purposes? [Ahem.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich) > [@](#): > > Gonzales v. Raich (previously Ashcroft v. Raich), 545 U.S. 1 (2005), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court ruling that under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution, the United States Congress may criminalize the production and use of home-grown cannabis even where states approve its use for medicinal purposes. It is settled law that the federal government has the power to ban marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/23 "2015-07-19T22:13:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Article VI, Clause 2: > This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof… shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. By that argument, why have state laws at all? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/24 "2015-07-19T22:44:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Ahem.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich) > > It is settled law that the federal government has the power to ban marijuana. Oh. Sorry. I wasn’t arguing that it wasn’t settled law. Funny how the right LOVES them some Commerce Clause for the devil weed and hates it for ObamaCare. Almost like they pick the result and then search for a reason that result is the correct one. FWIW, the Left does the same thing, just not quite as blatantly flip-floppy. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/25 "2015-07-19T23:14:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s what I don’t get. Currently we have an unregulated marijuana black market. Is there a problem that would be solved by strict licensing and regulation of sellers? Making sure the sellers aren’t supporting drug cartels which do even worse things than selling illegal weed? I know, I know, it’s probably un-PC to notice that prohibition breeds a criminal class devoted to filling the demand, and that that criminal class engages in horrible activities above and beyond the mere possession, distribution, and money laundering inherently associated with selling illegal merchandise. It must be Politically Incorrect: How else would all of the shining Conservative wits here have failed to mention it? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/26 "2015-07-20T00:46:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Simple; because the state does not have the authority to override federal laws prohibiting marijuana, and this is nothing more than the same kind of nullification that radical right-wingers think they can use to ban Obamacare and abortion. > > Legalization of marijuana is a matter to be decided by Congress, not by referenda in individual states. Right now, as we speak, most American states are wasting huge sums of money and ruining the lives of innocent people because marijuana dealing and possession is a crime. But Colorado has shown that when a state chooses to, it can legalize marijuana and the federal government can’t do much about that. So if California went for legalization by ballot initiative, it would save a ton of money and prevent lives from being ruined. If, on the other hand, Californians waited for Congress to legalize marijuana, they’d probably be waiting for a long time. Congress moves at a snail’s pace even when it’s functioning smoothly, and right now it’s functioning even more slowly than usual. Waiting for Congress would mean more wasted money and more lives ruined. If I still lived in California and had a chance to vote on this, I’d vote for it in a heartbeat to save money and protect innocent lives. Giving the middle finger to Congress would be a secondary motivation. ---
**Author:** ![MegaNazz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@MegaNazz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaNazz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/27 "2015-07-20T17:21:13Z")
Yeah, I think it’s important to consider the cash proceeds staring us in the face. According to this article, the industry would make and estimated [$35 billion through marijuana legalization](https://www.marijuanapackaging.com/blog/legalizing-weed-in-all-50-states-could-offer-35-billion-utopia/) by 2020 if all 50 states went legal for recreation. It’s not even a scratch in the deficit but with the way Colorado’s going, I think we’re nuts not to give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/28 "2015-07-20T17:25:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > But Colorado has shown that when a state chooses to, it can legalize marijuana and the federal government can’t do much about that. No, the federal government has _chosen_ not to do much about it. Obama has made an executive decision not to pursue federal charges against marijuana distributors who are operating legally at the state level. They’re still committing a federal crime, and there’s absolutely nothing stopping the next president from reversing that decision and cracking down hard on the “legal” marijuana industry. > [@](#): > > If I still lived in California and had a chance to vote on this, I’d vote for it in a heartbeat to save money and protect innocent lives. Giving the middle finger to Congress would be a secondary motivation. Then I take it you also support the attempts by nullificationists in Texas and Alabama to block gay marriages from going into effect, or those who want to arrest anyone trying to implement Obamacare? All they’re doing is giving the middle finger to the slow and dysfunctional federal government, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/29 "2015-07-20T17:27:24Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Oh. Sorry. I wasn’t arguing that it wasn’t settled law. Funny how the right LOVES them some Commerce Clause for the devil weed and hates it for ObamaCare. All of the court’s liberals were in the majority in Thomas V. Raich. The dissent, arguing that the federal government couldn’t regulate marijuana, was from O’Connor, Rehnquist, and Thomas. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/30 "2015-07-20T20:41:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, the federal government has _chosen_ not to do much about it. Obama has made an executive decision not to pursue federal charges against marijuana distributors who are operating legally at the state level. They’re still committing a federal crime, and there’s absolutely nothing stopping the next president from reversing that decision and cracking down hard on the “legal” marijuana industry. Of course, there’s that pesky necessity of getting elected in the first place with cracking down on the Colorado experiment as part of his platform. It may be but one issue, and not really a very important one in the big scheme of things – Obama has said as much – but it’s a big one to a part of the electorate that generally only emerges to vote in presidential elections. I don’t think Mr. Christie will be getting to 270 while still being on the record for shutting down what over 50% of Americans support. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/31 "2015-07-20T21:00:40Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Of course, there’s that pesky necessity of getting elected in the first place with cracking down on the Colorado experiment as part of his platform. George W. Bush didn’t run for office on a platform of cracking down on obscenity statutes and sales of drug paraphernalia, but he certainly did so once he was elected. Unless and until marijuana is legalized at the federal level, it’s a definite possibility that any future president could decide at any time to bring the hammer down on state-sanctioned marijuana distributors. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/32 "2015-07-20T21:13:50Z")
Pot legalization is about harm reduction. Marijuana isn’t great for people or society, but much less harmful than the stupid and awful war on drugs. Let’s not pretend pot is a wonder drug. Legalize it, put a realistic tax on it, invest the proceeds in fixing the societal things that drive people to get high every day. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/33 "2015-07-20T23:19:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > George W. Bush didn’t run for office on a platform of cracking down on obscenity statutes and sales of drug paraphernalia, but he certainly did so once he was elected. Unless and until marijuana is legalized at the federal level, it’s a definite possibility that any future president could decide at any time to bring the hammer down on state-sanctioned marijuana distributors. It was hardly an issue in 2000 and 2004. The electorate has changed its view substantially and candidates on both sides of the aisle will be asked about this issue, even more so since several other states will have legalization on their ballots in 2016. A president exercising his legal rights to crack down would not find the majority of the nation on his side. The possibility you cling to gets dimmer with each passing election. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/34 "2015-07-21T03:14:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > . They’re still committing a federal crime, and there’s absolutely nothing stopping the next president from reversing that decision and cracking down hard on the “legal” marijuana industry. Such a crackdown might happen, but it also might not happen. As long as there’s a possibility of saving money and lives by legalizing marijuana at the state level, why not try? You can’t win if you don’t play. > [@](#): > > Then I take it you also support the attempts by nullificationists in Texas and Alabama to block gay marriages from going into effect, or those who want to arrest anyone trying to implement Obamacare? All they’re doing is giving the middle finger to the slow and dysfunctional federal government, after all. I think you’re reacting to a tongue-in-cheek comment with excessive seriousness. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/35 "2015-07-21T03:23:02Z")
I support legalization. And, it turns out, so do a lot of other folks. [Here’s](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/19/these-are-the-states-that-could-legalize-pot-next/?tid=sm_fb) the best data I’ve seen on the state of legalization. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/36 "2015-07-21T03:33:38Z")
The federal government can’t handle mass criminality without state and local help. They can go after counterfeiters and terrorists just fine, those are relatively rare crimes, they can even go after the bigger drug dealers. But if only the federal government was going after small time dealers and recreational users, with no state or local police assistance, the odds of getting busted would be 100,000 to 1. That’s why the best policy for the federal government in regards to states that have legalized marijuana is just to give up. It strains federal state relations and they wouldn’t be able to catch many people anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/37 "2015-07-21T05:50:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Such a crackdown might happen, but it also might not happen. As long as there’s a possibility of saving money and lives by legalizing marijuana at the state level, why not try? You can’t win if you don’t play. It’s a matter of constitutional principle. Nullification is bad policy regardless of what your agenda is. ---
**Author:** ![MegaNazz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@MegaNazz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaNazz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/38 "2015-07-21T17:07:28Z")
I think people have really relaxed into the idea of ending prohibition on marijuana over the last few years. The only reason I could foresee a crackdown with the current social attitude toward marijuana would be a call from the pharmaceutical companies to their buddies in D.C. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/39 "2015-07-21T17:14:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Let’s not pretend pot is a wonder drug. True enough, but we should also drop the pretense that it is even a dangerous drug. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425/40 "2015-07-21T17:18:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > True enough, but we should also drop the pretense that it is even a dangerous drug. Well, there was the one time that [a stoned driver fell asleep at the wheel, accelerated to 100 mph, and rear-ended another car killing its driver.](http://www.komonews.com/news/local/State-Patrol-says-marijuana-a-factor-in-July-4-fatal-crash-312122051.html) Of course, that was a whole _two weeks ago_, so it’s practically ancient history by now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-ca-marijuana-legalization-ballot-initiative/725425.md?page=3)