# 2016 Formula One **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467 "2016-03-18T23:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/221 "2016-12-04T05:58:02Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Nah. Need to bring Ralf Schumacher back, stick him in the best car of the field and see if he can do what his brother did. > > Michael Jordan, maybe? He needs work. Oh, heck, I’ve got some time on my hands. I’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/222 "2016-12-05T18:14:40Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder if Massa or Button would be tempted if Mercedes came calling. I can’t imagine Massa is a real candidate. He’s been thoroughly outclassed by Bottas for the last two years - this season in particular - and clearly doesn’t have it anymore. On the same note, Button has mostly been outdriven by Alonso but for some reason he doesn’t “feel” spent. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Ricciardo as a long shot? > > Red Bull may well think they’ve hit the motherlode with Verstappen so perhaps could be tempted. Tempted to… what? It’s not like Red Bull is some kind of second-tier team that needs the money it could get from selling Ricciardo’s rights. They were the second-best team this season. A long way back, granted, but they could very well be legitimate contenders for the constructors’ title next year. Why would they sell off their #1 driver, even if they have another top talent? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/223 "2016-12-05T20:59:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Tempted to… what? It’s not like Red Bull is some kind of second-tier team that needs the money it could get from selling Ricciardo’s rights. They were the second-best team this season. A long way back, granted, but they could very well be legitimate contenders for the constructors’ title next year. Why would they sell off their #1 driver, even if they have another top talent? _everyone’s_ for sale, this is F1. Vettel went to Ferrari, the sport is littered with great drivers leaving great teams and the money is irrelevant. I suspect that if a good deal was in the offing for either of them they’d be more likely to let Ricciardo go than Verstappen. And the temptation may be for Ricciardo as much as Red Bull, The top team comes knocking and you have the chance to test yourself against one of the very. very best, that could prove hard to turn down. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/224 "2016-12-05T22:36:59Z")
Great drivers usually leave because their contracts are up. Senna was on a race-to-race contract with McLaren when he left. Prost was fired by Ferrari and actually had to take a year off before joining Williams. Hamilton’s McLaren contract expired before he signed with Mercedes. Vettel wasn’t sold to Ferrari. Red Bull let him go because it wasn’t worth fighting to keep him since his contract was expiring the following year anyway. What does Red Bull gain by letting Ricciardo walk? They can promote Sainz, sure, but he’s not Ricciardo - at least not yet - and Ricciardo isn’t a four-time champion who can basically dictate his own terms. He’s under contract through 2018, too. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/225 "2016-12-06T10:24:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Great drivers usually leave because their contracts are up. Senna was on a race-to-race contract with McLaren when he left. Prost was fired by Ferrari and actually had to take a year off before joining Williams. Hamilton’s McLaren contract expired before he signed with Mercedes. > > Vettel wasn’t sold to Ferrari. Red Bull let him go because it wasn’t worth fighting to keep him since his contract was expiring the following year anyway. All true but it doesn’t change the fact that really good drivers by dint of their rarity are able to write their own cheques and decide who they drive for, regardless of contracts and regardless of how rich their current team are. At that level all that matters is who the drivers want to drive for. If Hamilton wanted to quite Mercedes tomorrow he’d be gone and the same is true of all the other top dogs. My feeling is that, though still senior driver, Ricciardo is more dispensable than Verstappen. > [@](#): > > What does Red Bull gain by letting Ricciardo walk? They’d gain some compensation and the impetus to nick a great driver from someone else. They know the game and if Ricciardo was tempted they know they’d have to live to it and find someone else. Plus I’m sure that they’ve played out this scenario for both their drivers and have replacements in mind. > [@](#): > > They can promote Sainz, sure, but he’s not Ricciardo - at least not yet - and Ricciardo isn’t a four-time champion who can basically dictate his own terms. He’s under contract through 2018, too. contract shmontract. if both Mercedes and Ricciardo want it to happen it’ll happen, if not…it won’t. Red Bull are big boys and know they’d have to just deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/226 "2016-12-06T14:12:31Z")
Yes, in the courts. Which would certainly block the move if asked to step in. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/227 "2016-12-06T15:52:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, in the courts. Which would certainly block the move if asked to step in. Wouldn’t get that far, just as in football once someone no longer wants to play for you there is little point enforcing a contract and an arrangement would be made. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/228 "2016-12-06T16:25:22Z")
Don’t these contracts usually have buy out clauses? Like, it might not be worth it for Mercedes to pay some $30 million fee to McClaren to buy Alonso out of his contract (and then have to pay him handsomely on top of that) when they could probably put Anthony Davidson in the car for dirt cheap and still probably win the WCC, but if Alonso were dead set on winning another WDC, he could help pay some of the buy out fee himself and then take a drastically reduced salary. Or do I not understand how these things work? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/229 "2016-12-06T16:31:26Z")
I agree that if a driver wants to move and a team wants them badly enough, there’s generally a price that can be worked out to make everyone happy. The latest gossip seems to include Alonso, of course. That seems like a terrible idea. I think only a crazy person would want to hinge their success on managing that particular set of personalities. I’d be pretty happy if Wehrlein gets the spot, really. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/230 "2016-12-06T19:28:06Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Don’t these contracts usually have buy out clauses? Like, it might not be worth it for Mercedes to pay some $30 million fee to McClaren to buy Alonso out of his contract (and then have to pay him handsomely on top of that) when they could probably put Anthony Davidson in the car for dirt cheap and still probably win the WCC, but if Alonso were dead set on winning another WDC, he could help pay some of the buy out fee himself and then take a drastically reduced salary. Or do I not understand how these things work? F1 (and most non-US sports) don’t really operate like the NFL and US sports leagues, where contract details are widely publicized. You’d only know if a particular contract has a buyout clause if the parties say so (and that generally won’t happen until after the fact). I doubt Alonso’s contract has a clause that allows him to buy out to race for another F1 team. In another formula, sure. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/231 "2016-12-06T19:41:56Z")
I was going to say “Well surely anything is possible with enough money,” but I [read this](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/12/06/reality-in-brackley/) and the reality is that there may not be as big a pile of it as I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/232 "2016-12-07T00:30:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Don’t these contracts usually have buy out clauses? Like, it might not be worth it for Mercedes to pay some $30 million fee to McClaren to buy Alonso out of his contract (and then have to pay him handsomely on top of that) when they could probably put Anthony Davidson in the car for dirt cheap and still probably win the WCC, but if Alonso were dead set on winning another WDC, he could help pay some of the buy out fee himself and then take a drastically reduced salary. Or do I not understand how these things work? There’s no guarantee that Mercedes will still be top of the heap next year. Wasn’t it considered a risky move by Hamilton to sign with them just a few years ago? They were 4th or 5th in the constructors standings before then. With the technical changes for next year, there’s an opportunity for another team to do the same. Don’t get me wrong. I like Mercedes’ chances, but before Alonso (or whoever) takes a pay cut to get that seat, he should look very hard at the team’s technical program for next year. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/233 "2016-12-07T15:12:22Z")
Yes, there’s a chance next year will be a down one for Mercedes. But they’ll be better than Williams even if they’re not still on top of the heap. > [@steronz](#): > > I was going to say “Well surely anything is possible with enough money,” but I [read this](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/12/06/reality-in-brackley/) and the reality is that there may not be as big a pile of it as I thought. There’s still a pretty big pile. If Mercedes are genuinely limited to what they were going to pay Rosberg - which I doubt, given the team’s enormous success - they could renegotiate Lewis’ contract to free up some money short-term. I still think it’s unlikely that Bottas goes. Williams will basically have two rookie drivers if that happens, although Nasr is an interesting prospect if he can genuinely get his sponsors back. I’ve thought he was due for a promotion for some time. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/234 "2016-12-08T18:42:25Z")
I can’t believe Alonso would _ever_ be Hamilton’s teammate again. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/235 "2016-12-21T05:47:30Z")
Massa [“Only Mostly Dead”](http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa-accepts-offer-to-stay-at-williams-in-2017-860616/). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467/236 "2016-12-21T13:58:24Z")
Not sure I understand that move. Massa was pretty awful last year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-formula-one/749467.md?page=11)