# 2016 State of the Union address tonight 01/12/16 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971 "2016-01-12T22:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/81 "2016-01-15T08:28:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Too bad everyone doesn’t follow his example. The SotU has become more political theater than anything else, and clapping is a big part of that-- it’s usually just a way of sticking it to the other side. So your point is that the GOP is more theatrical than the Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/82 "2016-01-15T11:13:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So your point is that the GOP is more theatrical than the Democrats? Uhm, no. My point is that all that clapping makes for a worse experience, regardless of who or which party it’s coming form. And I’ll add that if “not clapping” is disrespecting the president, I’d like to see more disrespecting of the president. But of course it’s not, since the idea that one must clap during a speech is complete nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/83 "2016-01-15T18:00:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The SotU has become more political theater than anything else . . . So what? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/84 "2016-01-15T20:38:40Z")
What’s wrong with being polite? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/85 "2016-01-15T20:46:30Z")
Saving your applause until the end is perfectly polite. It’s often specifically asked for so we can get through the damn speech. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/86 "2016-01-15T22:10:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And Damn were those teeth white. They made the journalists’ teeth look coffee stain brown. I had to stop watching and run and get my sunglasses. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/87 "2016-01-15T22:23:26Z")
Put it this way: If the SOTU is political theater, then Pubs who sit on their hands and scowl are intentionally **participating** in that theater, no less so than Dems who stand up and clap. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/88 "2016-01-15T22:56:59Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/89 "2016-01-16T00:46:59Z")
When Obama entered the House Chamber, he shook hands with the men, and kissed the women on the cheek. Okay…that bugs me just a tiny little small minute bit. I mentioned it to a friend. “I’m sure some of those women would have preferred the handshake.” He said, “Some of the men might have preferred the kiss.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/90 "2016-01-16T00:48:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Put it this way: If the SOTU is political theater, then Pubs who sit on their hands and scowl are intentionally **participating** in that theater, no less so than Dems who stand up and clap. Perhaps. But I’d prefer silence to having to listen to the trained seals go at it every 5 minutes. It’s really a matter of personal opinion, though. If you like the trained seal noise, bully for you. I don’t. I’m not the one claiming that one particular way is “correct”. Just pointing out that there are some of us who prefer no clapping, and don’t see anything wrong with those who don’t clap. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/91 "2016-01-16T02:09:18Z")
Speaking of the SotU theater, have any lipreaders decoded the Biden-Ryan conversations? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/92 "2016-01-16T02:16:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps. But I’d prefer silence to having to listen to the trained seals go at it every 5 minutes. 😕 But as long as Ryan doesn’t exceed in enthusiasm, any token claps would not prolong the delays by the …( trained seals? what sort of contemptuous diction is that?) Surely even an asshole(_) could find something to cheer … curing cancer perhaps. Or is it necessary to continually show contempt: "You **k** g D_ **rats are so f** \*_n_ styuoopid you’d just {pick one}deathcamp/Isis/Benghazi/non sequitur if you tried to cure a hangnail." - - Obviously I refer only to Ryan himself here, not to any Doper defending his behavior. > [@](#): > > It’s really a matter of personal opinion, though. If you like the trained seal noise, bully for you. I don’t … see anything wrong with those who don’t clap. Some opinions are inferior to others. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/93 "2016-01-16T02:28:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps. But I’d prefer silence to having to listen to the trained seals go at it every 5 minutes. It’s really a matter of personal opinion, though. If you like the trained seal noise, bully for you. I don’t. I’m not the one claiming that one particular way is “correct”. Just pointing out that there are some of us who prefer no clapping, and don’t see anything wrong with those who don’t clap. No “perhaps” about it – the Pubs who refused to clap weren’t refraining because they prefer dignified silence, they were sending a strong message. Just watch them when one of their own is up there pontificating. Like it or not, the rules of the game are “clap if you agree”. So Paul Ryan, on camera almost the whole time, was sending an unmistakable signal that not a single thing the President said had any merit whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/94 "2016-01-16T02:46:50Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No “perhaps” about it – the Pubs who refused to clap weren’t refraining because they prefer dignified silence, they were sending a strong message. Just watch them when one of their own is up there pontificating. Like it or not, the rules of the game are “clap if you agree”. So Paul Ryan, on camera almost the whole time, was sending an unmistakable signal that not a single thing the President said had any merit whatsoever. That’s fine with me. I prefer less clapping. I don’t really care what the motivation is. But more importantly, I do not accept that it is “disrespectful to the president” to refrain from clapping, as was claimed by **selinus** , upthread. I also don’t accept that the rules are “clap if you agree”. If there are any rules, then I’d say they are “clap if you agree and if you are so inclined to clap”. No one is required to clap. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/95 "2016-01-16T03:15:00Z")
I actually agree with you that the whole clapping business is silly and juvenile and is just an outgrowth of the old idea that one rose and applauded when something really and truly spectacular was said or announced. It’s now become a stupid game where one side applauds every second word and the other practices looking sour and disagreeable so they can put on the required expressions in retaliation. But the game is what it is. And if it were up to me, when an opponent was speaking, the rules being what they are I would applaud with the others when a statement was made that was conciliatory or on common ground, the message being, “yes, we do have common ground, and we can work with you on many of these issues”. The sad thing is that the message that Ryan and the other Republicans were sending was the exact opposite of that. To be fair, this may have less to do with those individuals than with the simpletons they have to appease. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/96 "2016-01-16T03:56:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I also don’t accept that the rules are “clap if you agree”. If there are any rules, then I’d say they are “clap if you agree and if you are so inclined to clap”. No one is required to clap. Is there a single Congressperson who has been in the audience for State of the Union addresses by Presidents of each party, and refrained from mid-speech clapping for both? The ‘rule’ of actual practice, for Congress, is to clap. I think the Justices and the Joint Chiefs generally maintain a decorum. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/97 "2016-01-16T04:16:58Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Is there a single Congressperson who has been in the audience for State of the Union addresses by Presidents of each party, and refrained from mid-speech clapping for both? I have no idea. Nor do I particularly care. But if you’d like to show that it has never happened before, be my guest. > [@](#): > > The ‘rule’ of actual practice, for Congress, is to clap. I think the Justices and the Joint Chiefs generally maintain a decorum. Custom. If it were a rule, then there would be some consequence meted out by the body for non-compliance. I would have had no problem had Pelosi refrained from clapping during Bush’s SotU speech. Would you have been upset? But lest we lose sight of the original issue, what with all this talk about “rules”, I refuse to accept that it is disrespectful to refrain from clapping. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/98 "2016-01-16T04:29:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But lest we lose sight of the original issue, what with all this talk about “rules”, I refuse to accept that it is disrespectful to refrain from clapping. Do you disagree? Yes, I disagree. I agree that it’s “custom”, not “rules”, but custom sets the standards by which messages are delivered. Thus, it’s not an insult if I don’t invite Donald and Melanoma Trump (or whatever the hell her name is) to my wedding, but it **IS** an insult if I don’t invite my own mother. Custom. It means a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/99 "2016-01-16T04:42:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Custom. Yes, that’s what I said. With the emphasis that it seems to be one universally upheld by both parties. Customs are often stronger than written codes. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > But lest we lose sight of the original issue, what with all this talk about “rules”, I refuse to accept that it is disrespectful to refrain from clapping. Do you disagree? As a theoretical matter, no. But short of a President making a point of it–repeatedly imploring his own party not to applaud him until he was through–it’s hard to see how the custom could change any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971/100 "2016-01-16T05:06:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yes, I disagree. > > I agree that it’s “custom”, not “rules”, but custom sets the standards by which messages are delivered. Thus, it’s not an insult if I don’t invite Donald and Melanoma Trump (or whatever the hell her name is) to my wedding, but it **IS** an insult if I don’t invite my own mother. Custom. It means a lot. Bad analogy. Clapping or not = inviting your mother to your wedding or not? No. You need to come up with something better than that. But, bottom line, he’s the president, not the king. If he needs to be fawned over, he should give a speech in front of a hand-picked audience. Putting myself in a Congresscritter’s position, I’ll clap if I damn well want to, and not clap if I damn well don’t. Also, “insult” and “disrespect” are not the same things. Is it you position that a Congresscritter should never insult the president? Are you ready to chastise every Democrat who ever insulted GWB? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-state-of-the-union-address-tonight-01-12-16/742971.md?page=4)