# 2016 UK Conservative Party Leadership Election Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 29, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667 "2016-06-29T02:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/61 "2016-07-04T18:52:50Z")
And now Nigel Farage has resigned his position, saying he’s done his job. Another person that doesn’t want to have to deal with the cleanup after the party. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/62 "2016-07-04T20:18:08Z")
Since UKIP is likely to expell their only MP, they’re basically done as a political party. Farage should be sent to the Tower of London and imprisoned. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/63 "2016-07-04T21:42:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > And now Nigel Farage has resigned his position, saying he’s done his job. Another person that doesn’t want to have to deal with the cleanup after the party. He was never in a position to have anything to do with the post-Brexit Britain. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/64 "2016-07-05T02:04:45Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think for Germany, at least, the preferred option would be for the UK to not leave at all. If the UK is really to leave, then sure, the EU will want it done quickly. But if there is a way for it to be prevented, I think they will pursue that as far as they can. > I don’t put too much weight on what they say publicly. A lot of it is posturing and bluff-calling. I wonder what the UK and the EU are saying among themselves behind the scenes. I agree. Germany’s ideal outcome is that the UK not leave at all. But, if they are to leave, then they should leave reasonably quickly. The worst outcome is the UK being politically committed to leaving, but a prolonged period in which it takes no steps actually to leave. This is also a very poor outcome for the UK, of course. > [@Ximenean](#): > > As for the Brexiteers, sure they will press for exit but they’ll be up against much of the establishment, who don’t want to leave and will be buoyed by the knowledge that public opinion is only narrowly in favour of it. I think they too will look hard for some kind of sellable compromise, which may not entail the UK actually leaving. I think “a sellable compromise” might be that the UK exits the EU but joins the EEA, participating in the single market (inc. free movement. Ostensibly this is to allow for a transition period while the UK makes a plan for life after divorce, talks to third countries about trade agreements, etc. But in fact the real agenda is a hope that the political climate in the UK will change,and a subsequent referendum or election will deliver a mandate to re-join the EU. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/65 "2016-07-05T09:45:22Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > But in fact the real agenda is a hope that the political climate in the UK will change,and a subsequent referendum or election will deliver a mandate to re-join the EU. Except that rejoining the EU means starting from scratch. It means no rebate. It means a lengthy and uncomfortable conversation about currency. It means all the previous benefits the UK enjoyed from being a major player are unlikely to return as Britain does the walk of shame to the back of the queue. Once we’re out, coming back will not be quick, cheap or easy. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/66 "2016-07-05T09:56:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Except that rejoining the EU means starting from scratch. It means no rebate. It means a lengthy and uncomfortable conversation about currency. It means all the previous benefits the UK enjoyed from being a major player are unlikely to return as Britain does the walk of shame to the back of the queue. > > Once we’re out, coming back will not be quick, cheap or easy. Well, I’m making this up as I go along, I admit, but it seems to me that France, Germany, etc do want the UK in the EU, and are (obviously) willing to have it in on the terms that it now enjoys. So the game plan might be that the UK transitions to EEA membership without adopting the euro, and possibly retaining something vaguely analogous to the rebate in its financial arrangements as an EEA member. Then, a few years down the line, they negotiate re-admission to the Union on terms which preserve some of their EEA sweeteners (like sterling, and some kind of budget deal). The end result is that they get back in on terms which, if not the exact terms they now enjoy, are more like those terms than the terms that a complete newbie would get. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/67 "2016-07-05T11:01:48Z")
There is going to be no Article 50 till at least Oct, when the new PM takes over and I suspect there will be an election after that, with EU membership as the main issue. If (say) Labour wins with a election promise to stay in; and ignore the referendum, then… Well with the Brexit guys jumping ship already, that does not seem like an unlikely senario. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/68 "2016-07-05T11:13:57Z")
But wouldn’t the Tories run on the same promise? If the new election is to be a confirmation referendum as well, doesn’t Remain/Leave have to break along party lines? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/69 "2016-07-05T12:01:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > … I suspect there will be an election after that, … Doesn’t the fixed election law preclude that? I may not have a good understanding of it, but I don’t think that simply changing party leaders is an exception to the ban on snap elections. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/70 "2016-07-05T12:35:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > There is going to be no Article 50 till at least Oct, when the new PM takes over and I suspect there will be an election after that, with EU membership as the main issue. If (say) Labour wins with a election promise to stay in; and ignore the referendum, then… There won’t be a general election this year. First, there’s the issue of fixed terms. Second, the Tories want boundary changes to kick in. Third, there are a lot of Tory MPs in marginal seats who want to stay in those seats as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/71 "2016-07-05T13:37:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But wouldn’t the Tories run on the same promise? If the new election is to be a confirmation referendum as well, doesn’t Remain/Leave have to break along party lines? No. If both Tories and Labour run on an explicit platform of not exiting the EU, and if either of them win, the winner has a mandate not to exit the EU. The mandate you get depends on what’s in your platform, not what’s in other parties’ platforms. If people don’t want to vote for a candidate committed to “remain” then they can vote UKIP. (Whether both - or indeed either - the Tories or Labour would go into an early general election on a platform of remaining is another question, of course. But if they did, and if they won, they’d have a mandate for remaining.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/72 "2016-07-05T14:21:09Z")
Can’t Parliament say “never mind what we said before, elections in X weeks”? If both Tories and Labour think they can gain from early elections, what’s to stop them? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/73 "2016-07-05T14:21:29Z")
Meanwhile, in Conservative Leadership Election news: Ken Clarke and Malcolm Rifkind are caught “unawares” on a[live mike/camera](http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates) feed discussing the leadership contenders. > [@](#): > > The former chancellor had just been interviewed when he was recorded on a live microphone giving his opinions to Sir Malcolm Rifkind about the “fiasco”. > > Sir Malcolm, who was also appearing as a guest, started the conversation with Mr Clarke when he leaned in to say: “I don’t mind who wins as long as Gove comes third. As long as Gove doesn’t come in the final two I don’t mind what happens.” > > Mr Clarke on Michael Gove: > > "I don’t think the membership will vote for Gove. I remember being in a discussion about something to do with somewhere like Syria or Iraq and he was so wild that I remember exchanging looks with Liam Fox. > > "We were exchanging views and Liam was raising eyebrows. > > "I think with Michael as prime minister we’d go to war with at least three countries at once. Clarke favours May, despite calling her bloody difficult - “We used to work for Margaret Thatcher, and she was bloody difficult”. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/74 "2016-07-05T17:39:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > And now Nigel Farage has resigned his position, saying he’s done his job. Another person that doesn’t want to have to deal with the cleanup after the party. “Mr Farrage. Now your entire campaign has been revealed to be lies and the UK faces disaster. Do you feel any responsibility for this?” _“Sorry, I’m a private citizen now. It’s nothing to do with me.”_ ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/75 "2016-07-05T18:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Home Secretary Theresa May has won the first round of voting in the contest to replace David Cameron as the next Conservative leader and prime minister. > > Mrs May, who began the race as the frontrunner, got 165 votes. Minister Andrea Leadsom came second with 66. > > Michael Gove got 48 votes and Stephen Crabb 34. Liam Fox is eliminated from the race, coming last with 16 votes. > > Party members will choose from the two backed by most Tory MPs, with the winner due to be named on 9 September. > **[Tory leadership: Theresa May tops first vote but Fox and Crabb out](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36718196)** > > Home Secretary Theresa May wins the first round of voting in the Conservative Party leadership ballot, but Liam Fox is eliminated after coming last - and Stephen Crabb drops out. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/76 "2016-07-05T18:38:46Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Ken Clarke and Malcolm Rifkind are caught “unawares” on a[live mike/camera](http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates) feed discussing the leadership contenders. Aye, “unawares” right enough, heh. Sly old dogs those pair. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/77 "2016-07-05T18:49:19Z")
The state of Ken Clarke 😃 . Even by his standards he’s looking a bit rough there. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/78 "2016-07-05T18:55:57Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > The state of Ken Clarke 😃 . Even by his standards he’s looking a bit rough there. The classic “two pints of wine for lunch after rolling home from Ronnie Scott’s at 5am” look. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/79 "2016-07-05T19:26:42Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Aye, “unawares” right enough, heh. Sly old dogs those pair. Anyone who thinks that they didn’t know exactly what they were doing needs to be hit with the clue-stick. The camera’s pointing straight at Clarke FFS! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667/80 "2016-07-05T19:30:42Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > The state of Ken Clarke 😃 . Even by his standards he’s looking a bit rough there. He’s 76. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2016-uk-conservative-party-leadership-election-discussion/758667.md?page=5)