# 2017 NBA Playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582 "2017-04-16T20:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/222 "2017-06-08T12:14:40Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > The problem with moving the three point line out is that it plays into Curry’s strengths even more. Move the line back a few feet and Curry’s maybe the only guy for whom it’s a positive expectation shot. It reminds me a bit of when they started Tiger-proofing golf courses, and it just made it so Tiger was the only one with the length to handle them. Maybe they could have a 4-point shot or even a 5-point shot. That would add an interesting level of cognitive load to players moving around in real time. I’d expect longer and more frequent time-outs though. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/223 "2017-06-08T12:29:09Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The NBA is boring with just two superteams, but last year’s finals were pretty great. The Warriors felt like a good team that built themselves the right way, but this Durant shit just kinda ruins what could’ve been a great rivalry. The two superteams sort of makes a joke of the league, but the super-super team even more so. It turns something that felt like an organically developed team into a fluke situation that allows them to play the game on easy mode. > > The Cavs look like they’re playing with every bit of effort they can muster just to keep their heads above water, while the Warriors just casually knock away 25 footers all day. This is like the modern version of the Lakers - Celtics rivalry of the 1980s. Maybe the Cavs go out and get a star player next year, but considering the way the Cavs are built – like so many of the typical Eastern Conference teams over the past 10-15 years, more for physical half-court, low-post, baseline basketball – I don’t think they’ll stop the Warriors in next year’s Finals either (I know we’re getting ahead of ourselves). And I’m not even sure the Cavs are going to get to the Finals either. If I were the Cavs, I’d also probably looking to rebuild a team that can support Lebron with a little more youth and quickness, and go at both ends of the floor. I don’t know what personnel package is available but this squad has probably gone as far as it can go. I like Irving – I think he’s a gamer and he has explosiveness. I like K-Love but he’s too slow and injury-prone. But everyone else not named Lebron is expendable on that team. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/224 "2017-06-08T12:39:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Passing the ball to some 7’1" 345 pound oaf who crushes anyone in his path isn’t real basketball. Moving the ball and keeping defenses off balance until you find a mismatch – that’s basketball. Be fair: you’re not describing dozens of players across the league, you’re describing one guy, and the reason everybody didn’t go, “:smack: Why didn’t _we_ think of that?!” and run out and get their own 7’1" 345 pound oaf is _because there was only one of them_. There was never one before, and there hasn’t been another since. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/225 "2017-06-08T14:17:27Z")
Well, that was frustrating. The Cavs took some bad shots throughout the game, but somebody other than LeBron and Kyrie has to show up. JR Smith had a nice game, and Love was great on the boards, but somebody else has got to take some of the scoring load. Tristan Thompson played 23 minutes, scored zero points and only grabbed three rebounds. How can that happen? In hindsight, they might as well have benched him entirely and run small with Deron Williams taking Thompson’s minutes. Ah well, the series is over. Whether GS wins in 4 or 5 doesn’t really matter. They are going to win and this is what the NBA Finals will probably look like next year and the year after, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/226 "2017-06-08T14:21:38Z")
GS winning in 4 matters a lot! It would cement the greatness of this team, their going 16-0. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/227 "2017-06-08T14:26:16Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Be fair: you’re not describing dozens of players across the league, you’re describing one guy, and the reason everybody didn’t go, “:smack: Why didn’t _we_ think of that?!” and run out and get their own 7’1" 345 pound oaf is _because there was only one of them_. There was never one before, and there hasn’t been another since. That 7’1" 345 pound oaf was sitting behind the announcers last night, and it was hilarious. I feel less confident in a sweep than I did before last night. Draymond is about to get kicked out of the game for fouls and technicals, and he just didn’t seem as effective last night. That said, I can’t see Cleveland pulling it out with two players scoring over 70% of their points and half a bench. They got less than a quarter of play out of their non-starters, and 4 players didn’t see the floor at all. With 48 hours between games, that’s a hell of a turnaround. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/228 "2017-06-08T14:40:27Z")
Draymond has to stay out of foul trouble. KD, Curry, and Thompson don’t get their usual production without Draymond on the floor. I hope Kerr can calm him down a little and keep him focused. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/229 "2017-06-08T15:20:13Z")
as much as LeBron scored, his late-game play and decisions cemented this loss: after a key loose-ball-team rebound, leading by 4, he backed Iguodala into the lane, and then settled for a fade-away jump-shot that he missed (1:28 left) got caught in the switch on a pick-and-roll, leaving Durant and chasing Green, caught directly under the basket and offered no support while Durant drove the left side for a lay-up (1:15 left) (1:00 left) leading by 2 points, deciding to pass the ball to Korver for a (missed) 3, instead of continuing his drive to the hoop and weak back-peddling defense (to the top of the key) on Durant (0:45 left, still up by 2 points) instead of defending the 3-point line… you cannot take plays off, especially in the NBA finals against Golden State ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/230 "2017-06-08T15:28:00Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > as much as LeBron scored, his late-game play and decisions cemented this loss: > > after a key loose-ball-team rebound, leading by 4, he backed Iguodala into the lane, and then settled for a fade-away jump-shot that he missed (1:28 left) > > got caught in the switch on a pick-and-roll, leaving Durant and chasing Green, caught directly under the basket and offered no support while Durant drove the left side for a lay-up (1:15 left) > > (1:00 left) leading by 2 points, deciding to pass the ball to Korver for a (missed) 3, instead of continuing his drive to the hoop > > and weak back-peddling defense (to the top of the key) on Durant (0:45 left, still up by 2 points) instead of defending the 3-point line… you cannot take plays off, especially in the NBA finals against Golden State Can I add kicking Iguodala in the balls on the last play? For Draymond Green, that’s a flagrant, no questions asked. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/231 "2017-06-08T15:34:08Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > as much as LeBron scored, his late-game play and decisions cemented this loss: > > after a key loose-ball-team rebound, leading by 4, he backed Iguodala into the lane, and then settled for a fade-away jump-shot that he missed (1:28 left) > > got caught in the switch on a pick-and-roll, leaving Durant and chasing Green, caught directly under the basket and offered no support while Durant drove the left side for a lay-up (1:15 left) > > (1:00 left) leading by 2 points, deciding to pass the ball to Korver for a (missed) 3, instead of continuing his drive to the hoop > > and weak back-peddling defense (to the top of the key) on Durant (0:45 left, still up by 2 points) instead of defending the 3-point line… you cannot take plays off, especially in the NBA finals against Golden State His fatigue was a key factor in these. Earlier in the game, he finishes drives to the hole and doesn’t dish to the perimeter. Earlier in the game, he defends tenaciously. He was tired. He got lazy. He gave up. Fatigue made him a coward, as it does to all people. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/232 "2017-06-08T15:54:10Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Be fair: you’re not describing dozens of players across the league, you’re describing one guy, and the reason everybody didn’t go, “:smack: Why didn’t _we_ think of that?!” and run out and get their own 7’1" 345 pound oaf is _because there was only one of them_. There was never one before, and there hasn’t been another since. My point was that NBA had become too much of a low-post, elbow throwing game. Chuck Daley’s Pistons and Pat Riley’s Knicks (and later the Heat) produced an intense game that occasionally became an entertaining spectacle when things got out of hand, but it wasn’t good basketball. The formula for winning in the NBA evolved into building teams that could shove their way toward the rim while other skills like ball movement and good shooting fell by the wayside. Over time that became evident as the United States started losing games to other international teams. They could dunk, but they couldn’t pass or shoot. Going off on a tangent here, but this is also way I think a lot of the championship teams from the past (Jordan’s Bulls, Kobe’s Lakers, etc) would have problems with this year’s Warriors or even the Spurs of 2014. They faced good teams but I doubt they faced a team that could literally get 18-21 points in 7 or 8 possessions just by standing from behind the 3-point arc. Meanwhile they’ve got a future HOF player in Durant and also Draymond Green who can take it to the rim if necessary. Basketball now is evolving into a game where elite teams have a more balanced attack. The style of play now is purer and more interesting to watch. A coach can no longer be content with just allowing good teams to take three point shots because more and more elite teams are capable of making them with consistency. It creates a much more balanced game, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/233 "2017-06-08T15:58:37Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > His fatigue was a key factor in these. Earlier in the game, he finishes drives to the hole and doesn’t dish to the perimeter. Earlier in the game, he defends tenaciously. > > He was tired. He got lazy. He gave up. Fatigue made him a coward, as it does to all people. I think this is spot on. The load on Lebron, to carry the minutes and at both ends of the floor, must be exhausting even for Lebron. And to add on a point that I’ve been making in this thread, the Warriors style of play just spreads teams thin. I don’t think they’ve even played their best basketball in this series and they’re up 3-0. We’ve seen how GS’s balance works: you might slow Steph Curry and Klay Thompson for quarters 1-3 before they explode in the 4th. The next night you might stop Durant in the first half before he crushes you in the 2nd. No team is unbeatable but they’re about as close to it as I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/234 "2017-06-08T16:02:12Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Draymond has to stay out of foul trouble. KD, Curry, and Thompson don’t get their usual production without Draymond on the floor. I hope Kerr can calm him down a little and keep him focused. I think the Warriors top brass need to meet with Green in the off season and give him a warning that his act is getting old. It’s one thing to be emotional, but he’s just being stupid and attention-whorish now. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/235 "2017-06-08T16:05:21Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > His fatigue was a key factor in these. Earlier in the game, he finishes drives to the hole and doesn’t dish to the perimeter. Earlier in the game, he defends tenaciously. > > He was tired. He got lazy. He gave up. Fatigue made him a coward, as it does to all people. He also was knocked unconscious in the first quarter, so that may have contributed… ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/236 "2017-06-08T16:27:41Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > after a key loose-ball-team rebound, leading by 4, he backed Iguodala into the lane, and then settled for a fade-away jump-shot that he missed (1:28 left) Every time LeBron backs a guy down, steps back and fades away, I want to scream at him WTF are you doing?!? You’re the strongest guy on the floor, take it to the rack!!! It’s frustrating because you know when he’s determined to get to the rim and score, he will do it. Or at least draw a foul. That fade away is not his best move. But, I do also think he was just too gassed in the final 2 minutes. And so again I have to point to Cleveland’s utter lack of any depth whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/237 "2017-06-08T16:30:39Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > He also was knocked unconscious in the first quarter, so that may have contributed… That was with 6:00 left in the 1st. He was knocked down but I don’t think he was unconscious. His eyes were closed for a time, yes, but he was moving and responsive from what I could see. LeBron stayed in the game. He did not miss any minutes. If he was unconscious he likely would have missed some minutes, concussion protocol, and all. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c3K_4dS6Ag) But that hit probably factored in to his condition at the end of the 4th. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/238 "2017-06-08T16:36:03Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Every time LeBron backs a guy down, steps back and fades away, I want to scream at him WTF are you doing?!? You’re the strongest guy on the floor, take it to the rack!!! I used to sat the same about Karl Malone – big, strong guy, backs his defender down, and then turns for the fadeaway. Why not take it to the hole? Weak! But Malone’s fadeaway was a good shot. LeBron, if he’s determined to go to the hole, is virtually unstoppable. And like you say, he is not too good with his fadeaway shots. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/239 "2017-06-08T16:43:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think this is spot on. The load on Lebron, to carry the minutes and at both ends of the floor, must be exhausting even for Lebron. And to add on a point that I’ve been making in this thread, the Warriors style of play just spreads teams thin. I don’t think they’ve even played their best basketball in this series and they’re up 3-0. We’ve seen how GS’s balance works: you might slow Steph Curry and Klay Thompson for quarters 1-3 before they explode in the 4th. The next night you might stop Durant in the first half before he crushes you in the 2nd. No team is unbeatable but they’re about as close to it as I’ve seen. It doesn’t help that the Golden State bench is just mauling Cleveland’s bench. When half your bench players don’t check in to the game at all, that’s a LOT of minutes on the legs of your starters. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/240 "2017-06-08T17:09:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > It doesn’t help that the Golden State bench is just mauling Cleveland’s bench. When half your bench players don’t check in to the game at all, that’s a LOT of minutes on the legs of your starters. QFT Game 1, did not play: Channing Frye Game 2, did not play: nobody; everyone played Game 3, did not play: Channing Frye, Dahntay Jones, James Jones, Derrick Williams ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/241 "2017-06-08T17:52:57Z")
I forgot about Channing Frye. I know he’s a poor defender, but he could have taken some of Thompson’s minutes and I don’t think could have been worse. Might at least hit a couple shots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582.md?page=13)