# 2017 NBA Playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582 "2017-04-16T20:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/282 "2017-06-10T09:57:00Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Golden State Salary: ~$100 million > > Cleveland Salary: ~$126 million, $12 million more than the next highest team > > The Cavaliers are paying a Kevin Durant MORE than the Warriors. The Warriors could accidentally pay Curry the kind of dough LeBron is getting, and STILL spend less than the Cavaliers. > > KD got tired of OKC’s front office being terrible and left. Given that he’s already made more money than most people know what to do with, he went to the best place he could to get some hardware. It’s James to Miami all over again, except Durant didn’t have to recruit other All-Stars to the team. > As to the game…holy shit. Night and day differences, and I’m interested to see how this plays out back in Oakland. Can we fire the refs, though? This is NFL replacement ref level trash at this point. Many, MANY NBA fans **HATE** KD for leaving OKC and joining the team his former team couldn’t best. I can’t say I disagree. It’s generally perceived as a gigantic pussy move, and again, I can;t really disagree with them. The NBA is fucked up that way. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/283 "2017-06-10T10:43:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Many, MANY NBA fans **HATE** KD for leaving OKC and joining the team his former team couldn’t best. I can’t say I disagree. It’s generally perceived as a gigantic pussy move, and again, I can;t really disagree with them. The NBA is fucked up that way. If the Warriors win, then Lebron joins the Warriors next year. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/284 "2017-06-10T10:58:00Z")
Okay, I’ll admit that I might have been a little too bedazzled by the Warriors. They are probably not the best team of all time, and they might not even be in the top 5 even if they win a game 5. Sorry, but any team that gives up 80+ in the first half is probably disqualified from that discussion. They are still a very, very good team, and I think they are still the obvious favorite to win the Series. However, even with a 3-1 lead, a championship is no longer something they or their fans can bank on. The ghosts of last year started to appear in the first half of game 3, and they definitely reappeared last night with Kyrie Irving’s aggressive performance, K-Love hitting threes and grabbing rebounds, and most ominously of all, Draymond Green’s emotional instability in big moments. In fact Green’s 4th quarter meltdown is when I finally decided to turn off the TV and go to bed. The Warriors had been creeping back into the game before that happened. But Green is increasingly becoming a huge distraction for the Warriors. Last night showed why Lebron James sometimes tends to pass up shots because he knows that Cleveland is so much more dangerous when other players are getting involved. When Kyrie Irving is taking it to the basket and when Kevin Love is scoring, it just opens up so many other things on offense. I do expect the Warriors to come out with a lot more intensity in Game 5 but again, with a player like Draymond Green creeping closer to the edge, that is something that could work against the Warriors. And it seems like Mike Brown is the only guy who has the balls to get in his face about it. I know Kerr likes to be calm but Gregg Popovich, one of his mentors, would never have tolerated this shit and would have probably eaten him alive right in front of his players if anyone had pulled some of his stunts. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/285 "2017-06-10T11:09:01Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > One could nitpick LeBron in this series, but GSW is ridiculous. Sometimes I think they would annihilate most “greatest of all time” teams just because of the evolution of the three point game, plus they’re stacked with two way players when most other teams have guys who only shoot threes or only play defense. Would be interesting to transport them back in time and have them play with older rulesets, without zones. > > I thought the LeBron-Jordan comparisons would stop after 2011. Jordan doesn’t get outplayed by Jason Terry, or get checked by an elderly Kidd. LeBron is more like an evolution of Magic than anyone else. Wade and Kobe were more like Jordan, especially with Wade’s proclivity for blocking shots and making circus layups. > > Jordan’s mid-range game is superior to LeBron’s. He had better footwork, step backs, pump fakes, up and unders, spins, leaners, bank shots, you name it. Don’t think I’ve ever seen LeBron wave the ball around in one hand and fake out the defender. LeBron’s bulky physique is nice for driving and bouncing defenders off him, but it hinders splitting double teams, sliding past defenders, slows his first step, and probably contributes to his history of running out of gas in late game situations since he insists on playing out on the perimeter so much. > > One thing LeBron is probably GOAT at is chase down blocks. It’s hilarious when players freak out when they realize he’s behind them. I think it was Klay in game 3 who almost killed himself trying to dunk it as soon as he could so LeBron wouldn’t embarrass him. D-Rob is up there too. Excellent post, IMHO. Every word is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/286 "2017-06-10T11:56:59Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Jordan’s mid-range game is superior to LeBron’s. He had better footwork, step backs, pump fakes, up and unders, spins, leaners, bank shots, you name it. Don’t think I’ve ever seen LeBron wave the ball around in one hand and fake out the defender. LeBron’s bulky physique is nice for driving and bouncing defenders off him, but it hinders splitting double teams, sliding past defenders, slows his first step, and probably contributes to his history of running out of gas in late game situations since he insists on playing out on the perimeter so much. > > One thing LeBron is probably GOAT at is chase down blocks. It’s hilarious when players freak out when they realize he’s behind them. I think it was Klay in game 3 who almost killed himself trying to dunk it as soon as he could so LeBron wouldn’t embarrass him. D-Rob is up there too. Excellent post, marsh. I think you’re spot on in that Jordan is arguably a better offensive player than Lebron, and that’s not going to change at this stage of Lebron’s career. Jordan was unparalleled in creating his own offensive space. He didn’t need much space to beat you either. Just a step or two toward the basket, stop, jump, and shoot. He was also an extremely accurate shooter even when facing tight defenses. He could also shoot over defender’s hands better than just about anyone I’ve seen. Kobe probably is the most reminiscent of Jordan in that respect. Lebron’s accuracy goes down when he’s facing more aggressive defenders. Lebron needs a little more open space on the perimeter, or as you point out, he just drives it to the basket. Jordan could play better in traffic, whereas Lebron has occasionally lost the ball when trying to driving into double teams. However, as you pointed out, James at other things. As you say, he chases down blocks as well as anyone we’ve seen. And James is also an excellent rebounder, which is a crucial stat. Giving your team extra possessions, even if it’s just an extra one or two per game, can be critical in tight contests. I think James also tries to facilitate more, and tries to get others involved more. He takes he for that, but when other players step up, it’s really effective. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/287 "2017-06-10T15:02:28Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The Warriors blowing a 3-0 lead would make the most powerful sports meme of all time. > > Oh man would it be glorious. > > Also that [first half foul](https://streamable.com/wysow) was on Green. No idea what the hell was up with that one. Did they retroactively change what it was to prevent his ejection? That foul thing was total bullshit. Admit you fucked up and move on; why make shit up that everyone knows is a lie? [political shot redacted] In any case, I believe it was Paul Pierce who commented during halftime that you have to “play historic” to beat the Warriors, and he’s right; the Warriors weren’t playing badly, they scored almost 70 points in the first half, it just wasn’t enough; they were up against a jacked-up team backed into a corner that, on this night, could do no wrong. Can they do it another 3 games? It would be a _legendary_ feat if they could, but frankly I don’t think they can. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/288 "2017-06-10T17:33:25Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > If the Warriors win, then Lebron joins the Warriors next year. If the Warriors win, it seems doubtful the same Cavs team would be able to beat them next year. LBJ is under contract with Cleveland for another year; after that he will probably take his talents elsewhere again and the Cavs will be rebuilding. So it may make sense to start the rebuilding now while LeBron’s and Kyrie’s stocks are still sky-high. LeBron wants more rings and would probably share some limelight with KD to get them and arguably could use some more rest breaks during games. A blockbuster deal between the 2 teams would surprise me but wouldn’t shock me. Cleveland fans would be upset, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/289 "2017-06-10T17:40:09Z")
> [@NetTrekker](#): > > Cleveland fans would be upset, no doubt. It won’t just be Cleveland fans. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/290 "2017-06-10T18:15:40Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Many, MANY NBA fans **HATE** KD for leaving OKC and joining the team his former team couldn’t best. I can’t say I disagree. It’s generally perceived as a gigantic pussy move, and again, I can;t really disagree with them. The NBA is fucked up that way. I don’t like what KD did. Hate? Nah, we’ve seen stuff like this happen for years. It’s the NBA, where one player can make a massive difference, and contracts are capped. If the money’s gonna be the same, or close, why not chase the best place to get a ring? > [@nachtmusick](#): > > If the Warriors win, then Lebron joins the Warriors next year. Nah, his player option isn’t until after next season. If things continue the way they are, he’ll be a Celtic. > [@asahi](#): > > Excellent post, marsh. > > I think you’re spot on in that Jordan is arguably a better offensive player than Lebron, and that’s not going to change at this stage of Lebron’s career. Jordan was unparalleled in creating his own offensive space. He didn’t need much space to beat you either. Just a step or two toward the basket, stop, jump, and shoot. He was also an extremely accurate shooter even when facing tight defenses. He could also shoot over defender’s hands better than just about anyone I’ve seen. Kobe probably is the most reminiscent of Jordan in that respect. Lebron’s accuracy goes down when he’s facing more aggressive defenders. Lebron needs a little more open space on the perimeter, or as you point out, he just drives it to the basket. Jordan could play better in traffic, whereas Lebron has occasionally lost the ball when trying to driving into double teams. > > However, as you pointed out, James at other things. As you say, he chases down blocks as well as anyone we’ve seen. And James is also an excellent rebounder, which is a crucial stat. Giving your team extra possessions, even if it’s just an extra one or two per game, can be critical in tight contests. I think James also tries to facilitate more, and tries to get others involved more. He takes he for that, but when other players step up, it’s really effective. That’s a far better synopsis than I could ever hope to put together. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/291 "2017-06-10T18:28:31Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > KD got tired of OKC’s front office being terrible and left. Given that he’s already made more money than most people know what to do with, he went to the best place he could to get some hardware. \*\*It’s James to Miami all over again, except Durant didn’t have to recruit other All-Stars to the team. > \*\* Nor did KD have to have a televised extravaganza regarding his “Decision”… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/292 "2017-06-10T18:33:34Z")
If the Cavs can beat the Warriors in Game 5 - and not just eke out a win, but actually win in convincing and dominant fashion - then this series gets very interesting. At that point, Golden State will be holding a 3-2 series lead, going to Quicken Loans Arena where the Cavs will have a rabid, nuts home crowd. If the Cavs win in Game 6 - which they would probably be favored to do so, in such a scenario - then suddenly it’s Game 7 and the Warriors have all the pressure in the world not to undergo a historic collapse. Again, this all assumes the Cavs win Game 5, which is highly iffy, but if they do, suddenly all the momentum breaks their way and the psychological factor goes against Golden State. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/293 "2017-06-10T18:43:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If the Cavs can beat the Warriors in Game 5 - and not just eke out a win, but actually win in convincing and dominant fashion - then this series gets very interesting. At that point, Golden State will be holding a 3-2 series lead, going to Quicken Loans Arena where the Cavs will have a rabid, nuts home crowd. If the Cavs win in Game 6 - which they would probably be favored to do so, in such a scenario - then suddenly it’s Game 7 and the Warriors have all the pressure in the world not to undergo a historic collapse. > > Again, this all assumes the Cavs win Game 5, which is highly iffy, but if they do, suddenly all the momentum breaks their way and the psychological factor goes against Golden State. I think even a 1-point win by the Cavs makes the series very interesting. The Cavs outplayed the Warriors for much of Game 3, and they blew them out of the water in Game 4. We could easily have a 2-2 series now. If the Warriors lose, and particularly if Draymond Green’s emotions become the focus of another loss, then I think the doubt begins to creep in, even with Kevin Durant. Maybe not so much doubt on the part of the Warriors as much as a lot more confidence on the part of the Cavs. The Cavaliers have been a very dangerous team with their backs to the wall these last 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/294 "2017-06-10T18:52:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Nor did KD have to have a televised extravaganza regarding his “Decision”… I hated The Decision. Years later, it still pisses me off - not because of the decision itself, but the fact that James wouldn’t even tell Dan Gilbert beforehand. It’s one thing to leave, it’s another to openly shit on your team and fans on the way out the door, then wonder why so many people are angry. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/295 "2017-06-10T20:40:44Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I hated The Decision. Years later, it still pisses me off - not because of the decision itself, but the fact that James wouldn’t even tell Dan Gilbert beforehand. **It’s one thing to leave, it’s another to openly shit on your team and fans on the way out the door, then wonder why so many people are angry.** And not only that, but just the sheer self-aggrandizement of needing an hour long TV “special” to declare your intentions to the world while cloaked in a thin veneer of charity was pretty fucking galling. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/296 "2017-06-10T23:18:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think even a 1-point win by the Cavs makes the series very interesting. The Cavs outplayed the Warriors for much of Game 3, and they blew them out of the water in Game 4. We could easily have a 2-2 series now. If the Warriors lose, and particularly if Draymond Green’s emotions become the focus of another loss, then I think the doubt begins to creep in, even with Kevin Durant. Maybe not so much doubt on the part of the Warriors as much as a lot more confidence on the part of the Cavs. The Cavaliers have been a very dangerous team with their backs to the wall these last 2 years. The fact that Cleveland shed the “haven’t won a title in 50+ years” burden last year also lets the Cavs play more relaxed and more dangerously. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/297 "2017-06-10T23:26:00Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/298 "2017-06-10T23:27:03Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And not only that, but just the sheer self-aggrandizement of needing an hour long TV “special” to declare your intentions to the world while cloaked in a thin veneer of charity was pretty fucking galling. Meh. It was a dumb decision by a fairly young guy who may have been manipulated by Jim Gray/ESPN and Maverick Carter. He has been a model teammate, citizen, and family man, which one doesn’t always see in athletic supernovas. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/299 "2017-06-10T23:43:08Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > It’s generally perceived as a gigantic pussy move In this vein, KD is reported to have gotten 0 reps for the bench press of 185lbs during training camp. 0. I know he’s not a muscle player and his lanky frame benefits his style but damn! That is glaringly weak for _any_ NBA player. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/300 "2017-06-11T01:51:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The fact that Cleveland shed the “haven’t won a title in 50+ years” burden last year also lets the Cavs play more relaxed and more dangerously. Honestly, I don’t really buy into the notion that the players really put the burden of a franchise’s past failures on themselves. I mean, it probably does add a little more pressure when they’re in a game 7 situation, as they’re more likely to get those kinds of questions from reporters. But I think that the players who actually play want to win a championship and feel the same pressure to do so in any given year. The difference between a team or group of individuals who have won a championship probably have a better sense of where they stand. They can probably shake off a loss better than a team that’s never won it. Psychologically, I think the Cavs have a slight edge in that a) they’ve been playing better than the Warriors the last two games, and b) they won in dominant fashion last night. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582/301 "2017-06-11T01:54:23Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And not only that, but just the sheer self-aggrandizement of needing an hour long TV “special” to declare your intentions to the world while cloaked in a thin veneer of charity was pretty fucking galling. The Decision was a product of an ESPN / Facebook / Twitter / YouTube generation player attention-whoring himself the way that pretty much most people his age attention whore themselves. Look, I’m old school just like most people here, but I give Lebron a pass for that one – turn the page. He made a young man’s mistake. All indications are, Lebron James is a decent guy and an outstanding teammate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2017-nba-playoffs/784582.md?page=16)