# 2018 U.S. Open (tennis) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934 "2018-09-07T09:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/121 "2018-09-11T17:22:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Really hard to make that case. Both of those players have won _more_ slams, won _all_ of the slams and won them over a period playing at least two other active players of legendary status. > > He’s a great player no doubt and a thoroughly nice guy, I like him as a person and as a sporting example but having watched all of his career and all of Nadal and Novak’s too he is a much more limited player than either and nowhere near as entertaining to watch. When looking at slams, how important is it to you that Nadal has won a whopping 11 of his 17 at the French. Not to disparage it, but is it really important to be good on clay anymore? Also, Sampras has 12 at the US Open/Wimbledon, while Nadal has only 5. Just throwing this out there… Edit: Also, Djokovic has only 7 at US Open/Wimbledon, and 6 of his came at the Australian. Again, not disparaging the Australian, just asking… Edit: With the dearth of serve/volley and other specialty shots these day, I think Sampras was much more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/122 "2018-09-11T17:23:59Z")
Don’t forget Andre Agassis who won 8 grand slam titles. One year older than Sampras, they had a tremendous rivalry. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/123 "2018-09-11T17:27:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Men have been DQ for[http://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2018/09/09/5b9524df468aebb72a8b4578.html](http://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2018/09/09/5b9524df468aebb72a8b4578.html) less than what Serena did. How are any of those less than what Williams did? 1. Repeatedly smashing your racket into the ground next to the judge’s stand. (this might be closest to Williams who threw her racket at the ground once) 2. Hit a tennis ball into the umpire’s face (literally). 3. Kick the umpire. 4. Intimidate the line judge, racket abuse, swearing at the umpires. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/124 "2018-09-11T18:02:03Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Men have been DQ for[http://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2018/09/09/5b9524df468aebb72a8b4578.html](http://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2018/09/09/5b9524df468aebb72a8b4578.html) less than what Serena did. Those particular examples are not “less than Serena did.” Shapovalov sent a ball into the umpire’s eye. He needed surgery. The other guy kicked something into a line judge and the judge left the court limping. And on one occasion a player broke a racquet and a piece of it hit a ball kid–I don’t know if that was the Dimitrov incident there or not. But all those were DQs, not warnings for verbal abuse. I am not defending Serena here because I think she should have got hold of herself after the second warning and shut up. Knowing that the chair ump has called other players for coaching makes me think that warning wasn’t out of line either. I don’t really agree with the game penalty but it’s possible the ump told her to shut up or she’d get that penalty, and she didn’t. Escalating these things never works out for the player and Serena of all people should know this (“Why does this keep happening to me?”) But the ump is the judge of what is and isn’t verbal abuse. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/125 "2018-09-11T19:07:05Z")
Re the Sampras v the current Big 3. Sampras played professionally from 1989 to 2002, last match ever being his victorious 2002 US Open final. Sampras played 18 finals and win 14. Of his final opponents 5 were against Agassi, 2 against Pioline and 2 against Goran. Of his other 9 finals 3 were against Edberg, Becker and Courier, all time greats, men with multiple slams and who also were World number 1 during Sampras career. 3 were against Rafter, Safin and Hewitt, all who were World Number 1 and winner of multiple slams. During Sampras’s career. And 3 were against Todd Martin, Michael Chang and Carlos Moyà. All reached multiple Slam finals and or won a title and Moyà was even World numbed 1 for a short while. In addition Sampras also was a contemporary of guys like Kafelnikov and Kuerten, multi slam winners and World number 1. Sergei Brugera, Thomas Muster, Michael Stich and Petr Korda won slams and reached multiple finals. Sampras was in 14 full seasons, year end no 1, 6 years, all in a row, from 1993 to 1998. None of the big three have been number 1 as many times. Sampras played against a tougher field and still dominated. No where do Djoker and Rafa come close. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/126 "2018-09-11T19:11:23Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > When looking at slams, how important is it to you that Nadal has won a whopping 11 of his 17 at the French. Not to disparage it, but is it really important to be good on clay anymore? Also, Sampras has 12 at the US Open/Wimbledon, while Nadal has only 5. Just throwing this out there… > > Edit: Also, Djokovic has only 7 at US Open/Wimbledon, and 6 of his came at the Australian. Again, not disparaging the Australian, just asking… Impossible to say which of the surfaces is more important but certainly if you are going to have a claim to being the best player then you need to show you can win the big tournaments on each surface or at least get to the final. Federer, Djokovic and Nadal all have a better record than Sampras across all surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/127 "2018-09-11T19:23:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A lot of men are strongest (although not fastest) at that age. This seems like a contradiction in terms. If we are speaking of natural development, what would be responsible for speed peaking earlier than strength? On average, strength peaks around 25-30 and slowly but steadily declines for the next decade or so, with that decline becoming more rapid around 40. Why would speed flucuate noticeably from this timeframe? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/128 "2018-09-11T19:36:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Impossible to say which of the surfaces is more important but certainly if you are going to have a claim to being the best player then you need to show you can win the big tournaments on each surface or at least get to the final. Federer, Djokovic and Nadal all have a better record than Sampras across all surfaces. Surface have changed a lot since Samprases day. There has been a general convergence in them. [https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/01/17/the-changing-surface-of-tennis/](https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/01/17/the-changing-surface-of-tennis/) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/129 "2018-09-11T19:44:24Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Sampras played against a tougher field and still dominated. No where do Djoker and Rafa come close. It simply wasn’t a tougher field. Of those you mention only Agassi can be thought of as anything approaching the standard of Djokovic and Nadal but I’d definitely rate him as a step below. Becker, Courier, Edberg are the equivalent of Murray, they aren’t even on the same page as Djokovic and Nadal and they’d be the first to admit it. Heck I’d say Murray’s three titles are worth more than Becker, Courier and Edberg’s just because of the era within which they were won. Sampras never even made the final of the French, he reached the semi final _once_. Look at it this way. Federer is head and shoulders above Sampras. His stats and records show this clearly. He assembled this record at a time when there were two other players also busy assembling records that, by themselves, eclipse Sampras. The number of different GS winners that Sampras played against is an indication that the field was more _open_ at that time, not necessarily that it _stronger_. Here’s the kicker for me, In the 15 years of Sampras’s career there were 16 people that occupied the world no.1 spot. In the last 15 years of Roger Federer’s career? there have been 4, and you know who they are. No-one else has got a look-in because they are so good. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/130 "2018-09-11T20:35:04Z")
> **[US Open umpire defended for simple reason: He followed rules in penalizing...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/josh-peter/2018/09/10/carlos-ramos-followed-rules-serena-williams-penalty-us-open/1263930002/)** > > Per the 2018 Official Grand Slam Rule Book, umpire Carlos Ramos was in the right in assessing Serena Williams a third code violation for verbal abuse. USA Today is citing statistics that men are penalized twice as often than women. Of course that doesn’t really mean much if men are more than twice as ill behaved as women, but it is something: > [@](#): > > But assessing code violations for coaching is not uncommon, according to information provided by the ITF. Of the 31 code violations assessed during the three Grand Slams before the US Open, 11 of them were for coaching — more than any other code violation. > [@](#): > > During the three previous Grand Slams — the French Open, Wimbledon and Australian Open — men were assessed 59 code violations, almost twice as many as the women. The men were issued violations for coaching nine times and the most common violation was abuse of racket/equipment 19 times. Making it a sexist thing was a smart move by Serena, but I don’t believe it. I’d also point out that Osaka is also a woman. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/131 "2018-09-11T20:36:47Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This seems like a contradiction in terms. If we are speaking of natural development, what would be responsible for speed peaking earlier than strength? On average, strength peaks around 25-30 and slowly but steadily declines for the next decade or so, with that decline becoming more rapid around 40. Why would speed flucuate noticeably from this timeframe? Is this really accurate? You would probably know better than I, but in my understanding men who strength-train can continue to get stronger well into their 30s, and maybe into their 40s, before age starts to overcome the improvement from strength training. In my understanding of powerlifting records, the biggest lifts come from men in their 30s and maybe even 40s. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/132 "2018-09-11T20:38:11Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Impossible to say which of the surfaces is more important but certainly if you are going to have a claim to being the best player then you need to show you can win the big tournaments on each surface or at least get to the final. Federer, Djokovic and Nadal all have a better record than Sampras across all surfaces. So in other words, you say clay is still important. Fair enough. I don’t think so however. The French is the only “important” clay tournament left. I think it would have long ago been taken out of the 4 Grand Slams if there would have been something to replace it with. Since there isn’t, and you can’t have a Grand Slam of just 3… When looking at all-time greats, I think it makes sense to weight each of the 4 differently, with the French easily being the least important, and one should consider this when ranking them. Yep, I think Nadal is a bit overrated because of this. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/133 "2018-09-11T20:42:37Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > USA Today is citing statistics that men are penalized twice as often than women. Of course that doesn’t really mean much if men are more than twice as ill behaved as women > [@](#): > > men were assessed 59 code violations, almost twice as many as the women. In the slams, men play almost twice as many sets as women, so it lines up that way. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/134 "2018-09-11T21:06:42Z")
That’s a good point. So the takeaway is that men and women are treated nearly equally? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/135 "2018-09-11T22:14:02Z")
Vox continues to decline in my esteem: > **[Serena Williams’s US Open fight with an umpire, explained](https://www.vox.com/2018/9/10/17837598/serena-williams-us-open-umpire-carlos-ramos)** > > Male tennis players have been celebrated for snapping at umpires. Serena Williams was punished for it. > [@](#): > > But you don’t need to look back very far into tennis history to find an example of the double standard that Williams was talking about during the post-championship press conference. Earlier in the Open, those who watched John Isner’s second round match against Nicolas Jarry witnessed Isner have a complete meltdown and look at his coach after losing a game in the third set. At the end of his tantrum, Isner completely destroyed his racket. He was only assessed a verbal warning for this code violation, and it was considered his first offense.[…] Hopefully I don’t need to explain how profoundly stupid this is. (And I stand by my opinion that players should be immediately defaulted for smashing their racquets, but that is not the rule.) The author explains the escalation of code violations in the same article, but apparently doesn’t understand it. It’s not a “double standard” to give Isner (a player I dislike, BTW) “only a warning” for his racquet abuse when Serena got docked a point for hers, because hers was her second violation and Isner’s was his first. (Fine, I guess I did explain it.) Then there’s this: > [@](#): > > Five years later, in 2009, during a semifinal match against Kim Clijsters, Williams verbally berated a linesperson who had called a foot fault (when a server’s foot touches or crosses the baseline before the serve is hit) on her during a crucial moment. There’s no definitive video of the call (Hawk-Eye technology is not used for foot faults), but Williams did not believe she foot-faulted. Williams was assessed a penalty for verbal abuse, which cost her the match. Which does not remotely give justice to the way Serena stalked, menaced, and threatened with violence this tiny older woman. This Guardian profile makes it pretty clear the allegations of sexism are bogus: > **[It's not just Serena: how umpire Carlos Ramos has clashed with players](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open)** > > The former champion said she had been unfairly treated by the official during Saturday’s US Open final. She is far from the first player to find fault with him > [@](#): > > Ramos is a “gold-badge” umpire, a status conferred on the top officials in tennis. He has vast experience and has umpired a final at all four grand slams, as well as the 2012 Olympic men’s final, in which Andy Murray beat Roger Federer. > > Ramos also has a reputation as a stickler for the rules. At last year’s French Open, he drew criticism from the eventual champion, Rafael Nafal after they argued during a fourth-round match. Ramos gave Nadal two warnings for slow play, and the Spaniard felt he was being unfairly treated. > > “I say it with sadness, but he is an umpire who scrutinises me more and who fixates on me more,” Nadal said after the match. “He also pressured me about coaching. I have respect for him and all I ask is for that to be reciprocated. > > “The umpires are here to analyse the match and they are not here to use the stopwatch. There are some who like to take part in the matches more and who like to put more pressure on than others. If you want to see good tennis, you have to let the players breathe a little.” > […] > Ramos has also been accused of grandstanding. At the 2016 Olympics, he issued Andy Murray with a code violation when he thought the reigning champion had called him “stupid”. > > “I didn’t say ‘stupid umpire’, I said ‘stupid umpiring’. But if you want to be the star of the show, that’s fine,” said Murray as the two spoke during a break between games. Right, he shows such favoritism toward men that three of the top male players have complained about him. :dubious: He’s obviously just a stickler for rules that other umpires don’t enforce. Is that on him, or them? BTW, Billie Jean King is a towering figure in tennis, but she should stay out of the psychoanalysis business. Her notion that men are quicker to get angry and defensive about women challenging their authority goes against everything I understand about psychology. It is when another man is challenging you that you are more likely to bristle and feel you have to be tough and establish your dominance, whereas if it’s a woman your sexism is more likely to play out in sort of humoring her and just rolling your eyes. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I will just say that Becker, Edberg, and Stich were coming to the end of their careers in Pete’s prime, Ivanisevic was only a big threat on grass (and I say that as someone who was delighted he won Wimbledon, finally), and Chang I don’t think belongs with the others. I wouldn’t strongly argue with any of that, but I would just point out that Ivanisevic (for whom I share your fondness) being mainly a threat on grass doesn’t really undermine my point, since that is where Pete won the lion’s share of his majors. At the same time, I don’t endorse AK84’s take either. Cites for powerlifters peaking around age 40: > **[Is It True That Powerlifters Reach Their Prime at Age 40?](https://forums.t-nation.com/t/is-it-true-that-powerlifters-reach-their-prime-at-age-40/223507/8)** > > I think it depends on the individual. Certainly you can make significant progress in your 30s and 40s, but I think you need to get more right to do this than in your 20s because your body is that much more used. If you’ve built up chronic injuries... [https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/4385](https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/4385) This cartoon was certainly racist: [Serena Williams, US Open 2018: For Serena Williams Sketch, Featuring Carlos Ramos, US Open Umpire, Mark Knight, Cartoonist, Slammed](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-open-2018-for-racist-sketch-of-serena-williams-mark-knight-australian-cartoonist-under-fire-1914549) And why is Osaka portrayed as a blonde, white girl? > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > So in other words, you say clay is still important. Fair enough. I don’t think so however. The French is the only “important” clay tournament left. I think it would have long ago been taken out of the 4 Grand Slams if there would have been something to replace it with. Since there isn’t, and you can’t have a Grand Slam of just 3… > > When looking at all-time greats, I think it makes sense to weight each of the 4 differently, with the French easily being the least important, and one should consider this when ranking them. Yep, I think Nadal is a bit overrated because of this. What are you talking about? Aesthetically and game-playwise, clay is my favorite surface (it’s also easier on players’ bodies, BTW) and Roland Garros is my favorite tournament. But that’s just one person’s opinion. What is a fact is that of the 9 Masters 1000 tournaments on the ATP Tour (formerly called the Mercedes Super 9), which are the biggest tournaments on the tour, three are clay, and six are hardcourt. Zero are on grass. So why aren’t you advocating to get rid of Wimbledon instead? :dubious: > **[List of tennis tournaments | Grand Slam tournaments](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tennis_tournaments#Grand_Slam_tournaments)** > > 1.Davis Cup (men) | > 2.Billie Jean King Cup (women) | > 3.Hopman Cup (men/women) | > 4.Laver Cup (men) | > 5.United Cup (men/women) But of course in many ways Wimbledon is the most prestigious of all. Among tennis aficionados, I’ve never known anyone who didn’t rank Melbourne last of the four. Over the years, many of the top players have failed to even show up there. (The U.S. Open is a huge tournament, but it is looked down on a bit by tennis snobs.) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/136 "2018-09-11T22:47:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This cartoon was certainly racist: [Serena Williams, US Open 2018: For Serena Williams Sketch, Featuring Carlos Ramos, US Open Umpire, Mark Knight, Cartoonist, Slammed](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-open-2018-for-racist-sketch-of-serena-williams-mark-knight-australian-cartoonist-under-fire-1914549) > > And why is Osaka portrayed as a blonde, white girl? I physically cringe seeing that cartoon. It looks like something you’d expect from Stormfront or 4chan. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/137 "2018-09-11T22:53:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Sampras is a greater player than either Djoker or Rafa. > [@AK84](#): > > Sampras played against a tougher field and still dominated. No where do Djoker and Rafa come close. You omitted Federer; I’m guessing that’s because Federer was #1 for longer, and got more Grand Slam wins on grass, and on clay, and on hard courts, and otherwise has a bunch of well-known Holy Crap That’s Amazing feats? Okay, so name two guys who have at least as many Grand Slam wins as Sampras, but in an era where they racked up a winning record against Federer. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/138 "2018-09-12T00:14:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What are you talking about? Aesthetically and game-playwise, clay is my favorite surface (it’s also easier on players’ bodies, BTW) and Roland Garros is my favorite tournament. But that’s just one person’s opinion. What is a fact is that of the 9 Masters 1000 tournaments on the ATP Tour (formerly called the Mercedes Super 9), which are the biggest tournaments on the tour, three are clay, and six are hardcourt. Zero are on grass. So why aren’t you advocating to get rid of Wimbledon instead? :dubious: When you put it that way, I agree. I hereby call for removing Wimbledon from the Grand Slam also! 🙂 Okay, upon further consideration, I retract my statement about the French. Given the long history of different surfaces in tennis, I suppose the Grand Slam is just as it should be. I will admit there is still a tiny voice in my head saying that while Wimbledon remains of the utmost importance in ranking the greats and the French does not, that that voice is ultimately mistaken. But damn, I still can’t get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/139 "2018-09-12T00:32:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is this really accurate? You would probably know better than I, but in my understanding men who strength-train can continue to get stronger well into their 30s, and maybe into their 40s, before age starts to overcome the improvement from strength training. In my understanding of powerlifting records, the biggest lifts come from men in their 30s and maybe even 40s. Well yes, for record-holding/competitive athletes, they can often push past their natural set point with aggressive training (and often drug) regimens. But the same goes for aerobic speed athletes as well. Its not at all uncommon for elite distance/marathon runners to be well into their late 40s. I was referring to “most men”, as that was what **SlackerInc** was talking about in the post I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934/140 "2018-09-12T01:40:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You omitted Federer; I’m guessing that’s because Federer was #1 for longer, and got more Grand Slam wins on grass, and on clay, and on hard courts, and otherwise has a bunch of well-known Holy Crap That’s Amazing feats? > > Okay, so name two guys who have at least as many Grand Slam wins as Sampras, but in an era where they racked up a winning record against Federer. Oh snap. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > When you put it that way, I agree. I hereby call for removing Wimbledon from the Grand Slam also! 🙂 > > Okay, upon further consideration, I retract my statement about the French. Given the long history of different surfaces in tennis, I suppose the Grand Slam is just as it should be. I will admit there is still a tiny voice in my head saying that while Wimbledon remains of the utmost importance in ranking the greats and the French does not, that that voice is ultimately mistaken. But damn, I still can’t get rid of it. That’s fair. 🙂 And yes, you bring up a good reason to keep multiple surfaces, even if you as a fan may not like one or another: it’s part of the tradition of the sport (although hardcourt did not enter the mix until relatively recently), and it rewards players for being well-rounded. Actually, until sometime in the ‘70s, three of the majors were on grass, and the French was the only one providing diversity as it has always been on clay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2018-u-s-open-tennis/820934.md?page=8)