# 2020 POTUS Debate 2 (22 October) follow-along and discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634 "2020-10-22T22:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/321 "2020-10-23T03:26:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, so… - _ **objectively** _ - who won? > > I’m seeing a conservative message board absolutely nuts, claiming Trump whooped Biden, and then plenty of people of other persuasion saying not so fast, Biden was solid and firm while Trump was scatterbrained. We might have been looking at the same conservative message board. The one that I just looked at said that “Sleepy Joe’s” meds wore off towards the end, and he rambled, while Trump was right on point every time, with scathing rebuttals. Trump for the win! But there were a number of others who said the opposite, just like you said: “Biden was solid and firm, while Trump was scatterbrained.” It’s interesting that, on a conservative message board, there were those who disagreed with the prevailing view, after tonight’s debate. Perhaps they won’t vote Biden, and will vote Trump anyway, but tonight’s debate appeared to make them think that the emperor may indeed have no clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/322 "2020-10-23T03:26:11Z")
Sadly I suspect his supporters probably liked that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/323 "2020-10-23T03:27:20Z")
There is no “objectively” for a political debate. It’s a performance. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/324 "2020-10-23T03:27:48Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > “Russia Russia Russia” SNL better do a Jan Brady thing with that. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/325 "2020-10-23T03:27:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, so… - _ **objectively** _ - who won? > > I’m seeing a conservative message board absolutely nuts, claiming Trump whooped Biden, and then plenty of people of other persuasion saying not so fast, Biden was solid and firm while Trump was scatterbrained. Objectively, we won’t know until polls start coming out. 538 puts one out tomorrow, polling the same people before and after the debate, but the real objective numbers will take a bit longer. Subjectively, this debate changes nothing. Biden needed to not fuck up, Trump needed to be something he never can be. Biden did what he needed to, Trump is incapable of doing what he needed to. With Biden currently up 10 points nationally, and almost 6 points in the swing states, with less than two weeks to go, and millions of ballots already cast, this race is still well in Biden’s column. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/326 "2020-10-23T03:30:05Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > ETA: This is a game of popularity, and I don’t think either of them moved the needle. It’s a draw. And, considering how far Trump appears to be behind, is a major loss for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/327 "2020-10-23T03:42:08Z")
Serious question. Who are undecided voters at this point? I haven’t met an undecided voter since 2004 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/328 "2020-10-23T03:43:01Z")
Trump won this debate by not blowing up and being a crazy person like he did last time. I doubt this will move many voters one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/329 "2020-10-23T03:56:56Z")
Just saw instant poll on CNN, not the most accurate of course. Evenly divided between Pubs, Dems and Independants. 52-39 Biden. Consensus of a about a dozen observers on 538 call it a draw. They had a tracker of people watching on Twiiter and their favorability during the debate. Biden and Trump both below 50. Other polls may show other results, but I am confident none will show a big Trump win, which is what he needed ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/330 "2020-10-23T03:59:28Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > Serious question. Who are undecided voters at this point? That reminds me. Every Halloween in an election year, I tell myself I am going to a party as an undecided voter, wearing hats and buttons and stuff from all candidates. I never do it, and I can’t this year. I can’t let anyone think I may be considering Trump, even as a joke But I think it could win best costume, feel free to steal. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/331 "2020-10-23T04:07:56Z")
And how could we forget… **"AOC Plus 3"** Yeah, Biden missed a huge opportunity there: “Mr. President, I’ll give you $1,000.00 if you _fully_ name all four of those women.” 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/332 "2020-10-23T04:13:59Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Good? > Did he just say"good" that the kids don’t know where their parents are? I had to rewind the same thing when I heard it. Biden made the “over 500 kids don’t know where their parents are” comment just after the moderator asked if they can move on to the next question. Trump was responding to the moderator with “go ahead’ but it sounded like he was responding to Joe with “good”. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/333 "2020-10-23T04:19:39Z")
I wasn’t going to watch (and said as much here), but in the end I caved. Please forgive me. I think the notional viewer from Mars knowing nothing about either candidate, would likely say Trump ‘won’, as long as no post-debate fact checking was done. Trump mostly restrained his worst impulses, and (mostly toward the end) Biden seemed increasingly hesitant and reactive rather than proactive. Of course in actual fact most of what Trump said was steaming heaps of bullshit, as usual. Trump also, in my view, made a complete balls of his several attempts to work Hunter Biden into the conversation. I doubt anyone not already up to their necks in the Fox News/Breitbart soup knew what the hell that stuff about “Laptop!” and “3.5 million dollars” was about. Hell, I’ve made a point of trying to follow these issues and I didn’t quite get what he was going on about. Biden scored some fairly strong points in the “kids in cages” discussion, and on a few other issues where displayed empathy was a factor, while Trump did well by simply not being a shouting, eye-rolling maniac. Mostly. Really, pretty much a draw, which, given the current polls, essentially means advantage Biden. IMO. Oh, and Ms. Welker did by far the best job of moderation of this election cycle. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/334 "2020-10-23T04:23:26Z")
I wonder too but supposedly they exist. If the election in 2016 was decided by 70,000 votes those phantoms could be important. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/335 "2020-10-23T04:28:29Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > Serious question. Who are undecided voters at this point? I know quite a few, and they fall mostly into a handful of groups. - People who pay zero attention to politics. They are only vaguely aware that an election is coming up. Probably won’t vote. - Edgelord types who insist that all politicians are equally bad. Will probably write themselves in. - Reasonably-informed, sensible conservatives who would never vote for Biden but recognize what a flaming shitpile Trump is, so they’re torn between Trump and staying home. They’ll probably split half and half. - Reasonably-informed religious conservatives who are definitely voting for Trump but are embarrassed enough to not want to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/336 "2020-10-23T04:49:22Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Did he just say"good" that the kids don’t know where their parents are? > **[No, Trump Didn't Say "Good" In Response To A Question About Kids Separated...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/trump-immigration-good-fact-check)** > > A clip from the debate shows that the president said "go ahead" to the moderator. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/337 "2020-10-23T05:12:46Z")
I can grant you that, however Trump just rolled his eyes at what Biden said. Not giving a damn. No wonder he had to “go ahead”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/338 "2020-10-23T09:25:05Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I doubt anyone not already up to their necks in the Fox News/Breitbart soup knew what the hell that stuff about “Laptop!” and “3.5 million dollars” was about. Hell, I’ve made a point of trying to follow these issues and I didn’t quite get what he was going on about. Yeah, I noticed that too. If he were more articulate and less in a bubble he would be able to deliver a forceful, coherent message packaging the bullshit in a powerful container. Instead, he name-checks the “scandals” with a few mumbled words as if anyone who doesn’t already know what they mean could be influenced. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/339 "2020-10-23T10:19:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@nelliebly](#): > > > > Well, no > > Well, yes. It was 1870. A black man could vote since then. There were lots of hurdles as you mention which didn’t get swept away till 1965 but the correct answer remains 1870. That’s an absurd way of looking at things–the type of things Republicans like to say when they say that it’s all equal now and no one faces bigotry. If there were hurdles to black people voting, that means those who put up those hurdles were still “not allow[ing] Black people (men and women) to vote.” That was the claim–who allowed them to vote, not who made it legally possible. And, FYI, it’s not over today. The enforcement of the Voting Rights Act got struck down in 2013, as pushed by Republicans, allowing certain states once again change their voting laws to try and disenfranchise black people. And, in 2020, this is full swing, with attempts to reduce polling stations in black communities, Voter ID attempts despite their effects being shown to disproportionately affect black people (with no attempts to fix this), and now doing so with absentee ballots, trying to invalidate those when they know who was voted for. There is one party that is for this crap, and one that is against it. Can you guess which one Trump is a part of? > **[How the Trump Campaign is Trying to Suppress the Black Vote](https://time.com/5902729/black-voter-suppression-2020/)** > > Efforts to suppress the Black vote may be front and center in 2020, but they’re nothing new ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/340 "2020-10-23T11:11:15Z")
Trump at the end was a joke. What is the obsession with rambling incoherently about windows and birds being killed by windmills? He does this at rallies too but there’s no sycophantic crowd celebrating his every word this time and it sounded so cringe. It’s as if he wants to make a caricature of “AOC+3” and the Green New Deal (_they want to abolish cow farts!_) even though Biden isn’t even running on the Green New Deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634.md?page=18)