# 2020 POTUS Debate 2 (22 October) follow-along and discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634 "2020-10-22T22:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/382 "2020-10-23T20:09:23Z")
Well two wrongs do not make a right. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/383 "2020-10-23T20:09:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In no circumstances will Biden “need” Texas. If he wins Texas he’ll already have a massive landslide without it. True enough. He does, however, need Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida… Some of these states had recent economic revivals due entirely to fracking and other new oil and gas technologies. Biden went to those states and travelled around specifically telling people,that he would NOT shut down their industries. Then he undid all of that in the debate. It was a big unforced error. It remins to be seen how much it will hurt him, but it will hurt, and it was totally unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/384 "2020-10-23T20:10:22Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > People need to feel secure in their jobs now Why should Trump run on that? The Republicans haven’t cared about people being secure in their jobs for forty years! ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/385 "2020-10-23T20:10:39Z")
But three rights make a left. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/386 "2020-10-23T20:14:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I thought you were complaining that he was lying. > > Here, he tells the truth, and you are complaining that he was acknowledging reality. There are other ways to tell the truth, or at least not lie. He could have said something like, ‘I have made my position clear already’ then flipped an attack back on Trump. Or he could have said, “We aren’t talking about existing production but diverting new production to good clean power instead.” Or he could have gone on a spiel about the good people he met travelling through the midwest, and how amazing their economy has done and how he met Joe Oil Worker and his lovely family, and how he understood them, being from Scranton and all, , and how his administration is going to create all kinds of new jobs there, and then run out the debate clock without actually answering the question. Lots of ways he could have dodged that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/387 "2020-10-23T20:16:00Z")
The reality that, by definition, fossil fuels will run out, as well as the reality that we need to stop depending on them or face dire consequences, along with the reality that renewables _are_ becoming more economical than fossil fuels is only an error to mention to those who deny reality. The claims that he would “ban” fracking and oil drilling and all that is just a false claim. And he’s not putting them out of work. By the time that fracking and oil is phased out, the people in those industries will be retired anyway. There is plenty of work to be done in just capping all the leaking wells that are currently outgassing methane into out atmosphere uncontrolled. There may be some who took that line, and believed the right wing talking point that they were going to be put out of work, but they were probably already voting for Trump in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/388 "2020-10-23T20:16:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > “We aren’t talking about existing production but diverting new production to good clean power instead.” That’s what the word “transition” means. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/389 "2020-10-23T20:21:03Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Why should Trump run on that? The Republicans haven’t cared about people being secure in their jobs for forty years! Before COVID hit, Trump was presiding over the lowest unemployment in decades, the lowest Black unemployment in history, etc. The people burning down jobs are the ones who want to raise taxes, increase regulations, bump the minimum wage to a national $15/hr, shut down the oil and gas industry, turn industry into tools of social justice, and micromanage the economy. I know, because the NDP did all those things in Alberta, and cratered our economy that was already reeling from low gas prices. They took a bad situation and made it much worse before we kicked them to the curb. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/390 "2020-10-23T20:22:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Before COVID hit, Trump was presiding over the lowest unemployment in decades, the lowest Black unemployment in history, etc. Mostly on jobs paying less than minimum wage, requiring people to work two or even three jobs. Yay. Another fan of the Stock Market Uber Alles crowd. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/391 "2020-10-23T20:23:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > True enough. He does, however, need Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida… [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/pennsylvania-fracking-poll-4e215784-4838-4120-b9f3-29147742f5fb.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/pennsylvania-fracking-poll-4e215784-4838-4120-b9f3-29147742f5fb.html) Assuming that people who live where fracking is done are for it may be unwarranted. OTOH turnout of some younger voters might be depressed by being wishywashy on this. No error here. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/392 "2020-10-23T20:24:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s what the word “transition” means. No it doesn’t. Transition simply means changing from one state to another. That could be a transition from having an oil based economy to one where all oil production is shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/393 "2020-10-23T20:33:33Z")
Watched it again and something that stood out on the second time was when Biden said putting in a public option on top of Obamacare will be ‘Bidencare’. It’s nit-picky but Obamacare originally had a public option in it. They didn’t have the votes so struck it out. It sounded a little arrogant to me for Biden to attach his name onto the public option he’s proposing. Why not just go under the formal name once and for all : The Affordable Care Act. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/394 "2020-10-23T20:38:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He also lied when he said the Hunter Biden Laptop was Russian disinformation. There is zero evidence of that, and the DNI, FBI and DOJ have all given statements (well before the debate) that their belief was that the laptop was NOT Russian disinformation. And the FBI confirmed that they have had a copy of it for months as the store owner claimed. No actual evidence has been presented that this was Biden’s laptop. Only a bunch of innuendo and rumor. No email metadata, no chain of custody, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/395 "2020-10-23T20:39:51Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Mostly on jobs paying less than minimum wage, requiring people to work two or even three jobs. Yay. Another fan of the Stock Market Uber Alles crowd. Yeah, none of that is true. The biggest gainers under Trump have been oil and gas, manufacturing, and construction. Median household income went up 2.3%. Black people have done especially well, after their wages were stagnant for the previous decade. From the NY Times: > **[Black Workers’ Wages Are Finally Rising (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/business/black-unemployment-wages.html)** > > Their pay is increasing after a decade of stagnation. One man’s story shows the hope — and limitations — with that shift. If anything. Trump’s crackdown on immigration reduced the number of people working for less than minimum wage, and maybe be partly responsible for wage gains near the bottom of the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/396 "2020-10-23T20:45:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That’s an absurd way of looking at things–the type of things Republicans like to say when they say that it’s all equal now and no one faces bigotry. No. The question was when could black people vote. The factual answer is 1870. The question was not when did all the hurdles to black voting get removed happen or when it was easy for them to vote (which I agree continues to be a real problem even now). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/397 "2020-10-23T20:50:00Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > No, not really. As I’ve said before, it’s more like the bottom of the 9th in a baseball game where Biden is up 7-3, and Trump is at bat. He could still win, but it would be by a narrow margin. He could score some runs but still lose, by a narrow margin. Or he could lose more decisively if he fails to score any runs at all. But he cannot WIN decisively. He can absolutely still win though. It is not comparable to trailing Biden by four or even two touchdowns. If all the votes are accepted in and tallied fairly, I’m sure Biden will win. But I’m concerned DJT is going to burn down the stadium while the ball is in the air. Picture a poker game. DJT doesn’t have to be a good player or even have any money to play with. He just steps up to the table and turns it over, sending all the cards and chips flying. That has been his M.O. during his whole presidency. Everyone stands around wringing their hands, but no one stops him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/398 "2020-10-23T20:52:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No actual evidence has been presented that this was Biden’s laptop. Only a bunch of innuendo and rumor. No email metadata, no chain of custody, nothing. You mean other than that it’s filled with personal information, the store has a receipt with Hunter Biden’s signature, People who were the recipients of Emails on the hard drive have validated them, Hunter’s business partner says all the stuff he’s seen is real, and no one from Hunter Biden’s camp has denied any of it? It’s entirely possible that the computer was stolen and then ‘salted’ by intelligence agents with extra incriminating information, but I have yet to see anyone claim that the hard drive itself is fake. There are other claims Guliani has made that I haven’t mentioned because I don’t consider him trustworthy. But they are in the process of being checked. For example, he says he has E-mails from Biden’s lawyers demanding that he give the hard drive back. That would be awfully strange if it wasn’t real, but I am holding my opinion on that until and if there is independent confirmation. Hunter Biden’s ex partner is a real problem here. He says thatbthe most incriminating E-mail about the chinese deal,apportioning shares to everyone (including Hunter’s ‘holding 10% for the Big Guy’) is real, and he was one of the people in the E-mail. He also says that ‘The Big Guy’ was Joe Biden. He’s already given a written statement, and is going to testify under oath, I believe. It doesn’t matter if the deal fell through. If prosecutors could show that this was an attempt by Biden to profit from his position, it’s a felony whether it was consummated or not. But we will see. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/399 "2020-10-23T20:56:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It doesn’t matter if the deal fell through. If prosecutors could show that this was an attempt by Biden to profit from his position, it’s a felony whether it was consummated or not. His _position_ in 2017 was “former Vice President.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/400 "2020-10-23T20:56:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You mean other than that it’s filled with personal information Says who? Giuliani? > [@](#): > > , the store has a receipt with Hunter Biden’s signature, Ditto… and from what little I’ve seen that signature is highly dubious, at best (if it even exists). > [@](#): > > People who were the recipients of Emails on the hard drive have validated them, Who? Bobulinski? Anyone else? > [@](#): > > Hunter’s business partner says all the stuff he’s seen is real, and no one from Hunter Biden’s camp has denied any of it? Bobulinski again? Not Hunter’s “business partner”, but possibly an associate at some point that for some reason has decided to throw in with Trump in the last week or so. At “best”. The Biden camp is, rightly, ignoring this story, because there’s nothing to suggest it’s anything more than random internet nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634/401 "2020-10-23T20:59:14Z")
There’s no evidence that there’s even a real investigation going on into this supposed laptop. They’ve had it for what, a year? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-potus-debate-2-22-october-follow-along-and-discussion-thread/923634.md?page=21)