# 2020 US Presidential election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946 "2017-07-10T19:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/61 "2017-07-17T12:22:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > [snip]Indeed, the Left has spent much effort demonising whites, especially white males. No one likes being called a sexist. No one likes being called a racist. White men are routinely called both. I have been called sexist. When it was pointed out to me, It dawned on me how and why it could be taken that way and apologized. A little introspection goes a long way. Point is, if you don’t want to be called sexist or racist, don’t be sexist and racist and stop defending sexism and racism. If you are being called sexist and racist on a regular basis, there’s your clue to try to figure out why you’re being called sexist and racist (as in, figure out what about _your_ behaviors and what’s behind those behaviors that triggers such responses), stop doing it and apologize. Also, stop whining about it. White, straight men are not being demonized by the left. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/62 "2017-07-17T13:28:09Z")
If a politician says that racists, sexists, and other bigots are deplorable, and you take offense at that, then you’re describing yourself as a racist, sexist, or other bigot. That’s not Clinton’s fault; that’s yours. I submit that almost nobody was offended by Clinton’s actual remark. Rather, there were a whole lot of people who were offended by the Republicans’ mischaracterization of Clinton’s remark. Which means that it was the Republicans who were doing the actual offending. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/63 "2017-07-17T13:28:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Indeed, the Left has spent much effort demonising whites, especially white males. No one likes being called a sexist. No one likes being called a racist. White men are routinely called both. To the extent it’s true, then it isn’t demonization, but an attempt to create a more decent society, one piece at a time. \*Can \*it be true? Is there ever a more appropriate response than taking offense and saying things like “Trump doesn’t apologize for America!” ? > [@](#): > > The Left seem to ignore sexism against men. The Left seem to ignore - and even encourage - racism against whites. Why the use of capitalization? Is that a way to enjoy denouncing an imagined straw monolith rather than explore the subject? Yes, sometimes accusations are made falsely or inappropriately, based on inadequate knowledge. But sometimes responses are, too. We get nowhere by automatically imputing evil intent to someone who’s trying to engage us. Yes, sometimes you \*are \*in the wrong, and recognizing it and admitting it and fixing it is simply part of adulting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/64 "2017-07-17T14:51:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If a politician says that racists, sexists, and other bigots are deplorable, and you take offense at that, then you’re describing yourself as a racist, sexist, or other bigot. That’s not Clinton’s fault; that’s yours. Fair enough, but: from the sound of that, you _wouldn’t_ have followed her example. You presumably _wouldn’t_ – when asked about that remark at the debate – have said your argument isn’t with Trump’s supporters; because yours _is_. You presumably wouldn’t have expressed public regret for your remark a day later, either. And, well, I can respect that. And if someone else were to say they wouldn’t have made that comment in the first place – and so wouldn’t have needed to answer a question about irredeemable deplorables at the debate, and wouldn’t have had any public regrets about a remark they never made – well, I can get behind that, too. But she said it – and then made a show of regretting it, and then made a point of saying her argument isn’t with those people. And who does that help? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/65 "2017-07-17T14:57:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If a politician says that racists, sexists, and other bigots are deplorable, and you take offense at that, then you’re describing yourself as a racist, sexist, or other bigot. That’s not Clinton’s fault; that’s yours. I don’t think so. People can sense a code wording (a bit too blatant to be called dog-whistling) to know that something is being used to refer to them. A notably pro-life politician might say, “Those who kill innocent human life are worse than Hitler” and pro-abortion folks might take offense. Even though pro-abortion folks would not _consider themselves_ to be killing “innocent human life,” they know perfectly well that the pro-life politician is referring to them with that sort of language. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/66 "2017-07-17T15:01:49Z")
Edit: It is a cousin of the poisoning-the-well fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/67 "2017-07-17T15:26:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If the Democrats keep to that they’ll lose in 2020. In 2016 the Democrats did not reach out to the people who voted for Trump. Indeed, the Left has spent much effort demonising whites, especially white males. No one likes being called a sexist. No one likes being called a racist. White men are routinely called both. The Left seem to ignore sexism against men. The Left seem to ignore - and even encourage - racism against whites. Trump reached out to them and duly won. Yeah, I ignore it so much I don’t even think it’s happening. I don’t ever recall being called a racist or sexist by any actual Democratic candidate or office holder. But then again, although I’m a white male, I guess I’m not a snowflake. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/68 "2017-07-17T15:43:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Only if they want to console themselves with their ethical purity as they lose again. You guys went low and lost anyways. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/69 "2017-07-17T15:46:08Z")
I don’t really think you want to get into a comparison. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/70 "2017-07-17T15:46:57Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > These are the same Republicans who have no problem laughing at other peoples’ “snowflake tears”, “safe spaces” and “triggering”? Yeah, I get why they feel demonized. I rather doubt that they’re “the same Republicans”. Do you have a cite to support that claim? Trump got something like 63 million votes, can you understand that some of those people were bothered by Clinton’s deplorable comment and it’s not necessarily the same people talking online about “snowflake tears”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/71 "2017-07-17T15:49:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If a politician says that racists, sexists, and other bigots are deplorable, and you take offense at that, then you’re describing yourself as a racist, sexist, or other bigot. That’s not Clinton’s fault; that’s yours. > > I submit that almost nobody was offended by Clinton’s actual remark. Rather, there were a whole lot of people who were offended by the Republicans’ mischaracterization of Clinton’s remark. Which means that it was the Republicans who were doing the actual offending. LOL. That’s some pretty damn twisted “logic” you’ve got going on there. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/72 "2017-07-17T15:58:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Trump got something like 63 million votes, can you understand that some of those people were bothered by Clinton’s deplorable comment and it’s not necessarily the same people talking online about “snowflake tears”? I can understand that many, many of them already hated her and already thought she was a criminal (“Lock her up!”, went Trump’s chant, speaking of going low), and were absolutely gleeful at finally having some sort of evidence of the low character they already just \*knew \*she had. Isn’t that about right? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/73 "2017-07-17T16:02:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Trump got something like 63 million votes, can you understand that some of those people were bothered by Clinton’s deplorable comment and it’s not necessarily the same people talking online about “snowflake tears”? No, I cannot understand that. Trump is fucking deplorable, and so are the people who voted for him. It’s not really subject to debate. More to the point, no one who was going to vote for Clinton decided not to because she “insulted” people who were supporting Trump. Only people who supported Trump in the first place gave a rat’s ass about that comment. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/74 "2017-07-17T16:12:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No, I cannot understand that. > > Trump is fucking deplorable, and so are the people who voted for him. It’s not really subject to debate. > > More to the point, no one who was going to vote for Clinton decided not to because she “insulted” people who were supporting Trump. Only people who supported Trump in the first place gave a rat’s ass about that comment. Your post wasn’t a response to my question at all, but if all you want to do is spew venom and vitriol, maybe that’s for the best. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/75 "2017-07-17T16:14:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I can understand that many, many of them already hated her and already thought she was a criminal (“Lock her up!”, went Trump’s chant, speaking of going low), and were absolutely gleeful at finally having some sort of evidence of the low character they already just \*knew \*she had. Isn’t that about right? I have no idea how many of them knew before her deplorable comment that she is a person of low moral character. Just curious, how many Trump voters do you think chanted “lock her up” at one point or another? 200,00? 500,000? 1 million? 2 million? 3? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/76 "2017-07-17T16:16:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your post wasn’t a response to my question at all, but if all you want to do is spew venom and vitriol, maybe that’s for the best. you asked: > [@](#): > > …can you understand that some of those people were bothered by Clinton’s deplorable comment… And I answered. I can’t understand it. Nor do I believe it. My view is that her comment had exactly zero effect on the election. I guess we’ll never know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/77 "2017-07-17T16:20:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have no idea how many of them knew before her deplorable comment that she is a person of low moral character. I’m pretty sure you get the point but have chosen to evade it. > [@](#): > > Just curious, how many Trump voters do you think chanted “lock her up” at one point or another? 200,00? 500,000? 1 million? 2 million? 3? Probably a lot of overlap with the ones who cheered him mocking the disabled reporter, cheered him promising to keep Muslims from entering the country, cheered him tell about building a wall to keep the Mexicans out, cheered him promising to “fix” the government (and that only he could do it), cheered him claiming he was going to destroy ISIS because he knew how better than the generals, cheering him say his health care plan would cover everybody and cost less … need I go on? \*Those \*are the people, and the candidate, you were proud to have on your side? The hateful and the gullible and their most proficient manipulator? That all really happened, and now you own it, by your own choice. Tell us how you “knew” about Hillary’s character being so much worse it couldn’t be measured on the same scale. Then tell us what “deplorable” means to you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/78 "2017-07-17T16:29:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > … My view is that her comment had exactly zero effect on the election. I guess we’ll never know for sure. You’re right, you answered that you couldn’t understand. My apologies for missing that. This latter part of your post appears to be a complete non-sequitur though. I haven’t claimed (at least today) that her comment flipped a bunch of votes, just that the subset of people mocking “snowflake tears” and the subset of people bothered by her deplorable comment aren’t necessarily the same people. My post was a response to **Merneith** ’s claim that “These are the same Republicans …”. Is your worldview really so narrow that you can’t see that there’s a fair bit of variety among Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/79 "2017-07-17T16:43:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is your worldview really so narrow that you can’t see that there’s a fair bit of variety among Republicans? Yes, I get that. Some Republicans refused to vote for Trump. Good for them. Most, however, apparently did. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/80 "2017-07-17T16:58:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Probably a lot of overlap with the ones who cheered him mocking the disabled reporter, cheered him promising to keep Muslims from entering the country, cheered him tell about building a wall to keep the Mexicans out, cheered him promising to “fix” the government (and that only he could do it), cheered him claiming he was going to destroy ISIS because he knew how better than the generals, cheering him say his health care plan would cover everybody and cost less … need I go on? If you going on means that you eventually give me an answer, with an actual number, then yes, please do. Let’s grant, for the sake of argument that you are correct and there is a lot of overlap in the various groups you listed above, can you give me your best estimate on how many Trump voters chanted “lock her up” now? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > \*Those \*are the people, and the candidate, you were proud to have on your side? I don’t believe I’ve ever claimed to be “proud to have [all Trump voters] on my side” and I suspect you’re not particularly proud of all the words and actions of every single Clinton voter either. Are you? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Tell us how you “knew” about Hillary’s character being so much worse it couldn’t be measured on the same scale. Huh? I don’t know what you’re talking about here. What scale? When did I claim I “knew” about Hillary’s character? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then tell us what “deplorable” means to you. “Deplorables” = plural of deplorable; deserving strong condemnation / shockingly bad in quality [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946.md?page=5)