# 2020 US Presidential election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946 "2017-07-10T19:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/81 "2017-07-17T17:06:17Z")
I find it very hard to believe that anyone who complained about the ‘deplorables’ line was actually planning to vote for Hillary anyway. It always comes off as sour grapes from people who _are_ deplorables, attempting to spread a false claim that this caused millions to change their votes. “Well of course I’m a racist and a Republican and would never have voted for Lying Hitlery, but that comment was just too much and will cost the Democrats future elections by insulting people like me!” I’m a white male, I’m not a Republican, I’m not a deplorable. Nothing in that statement insulted me or made me think ill of Hillary Clinton. But Humans like to try that argument a lot. People who were never going to agree with you or treat you fairly will grasp at your anger or some comment you make to try to guilt and shame you into submission and retroactively justify their position. Just look at the comments made by people who hate blacks, about actions taken by black people justifying their hatred of black people. Or really, any other group. “I can’t support that group because they’re not being polite” is really a bullshit way of blowing off what you weren’t going to support or listen to anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/82 "2017-07-17T17:10:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But they _didn’t_ go with ethical purity. Hillary Clinton heard American citizens saying mean things about people who aren’t American citizens, and decided the best move was to call those voters deplorable and irredeemable – and, the very next day, she announced that she regretted her remarks. > > At the debate, one of the moderators naturally asked a question about that, and she replied by emphatically stressing that her argument isn’t with Trump’s _supporters,_ but with _him_. Because of course she did; you can’t put a statement like that out there and _then stand by it,_ that’s just crazy talk. > > She clearly had to back down, because ‘weak and dishonest’ was actually a less bad look than standing by that description – but walking it back, like doubling down, isn’t as good as simply not saying it in the first place. > > Whoever the Dems put up in 2020 will presumably get asked about that: do you think “tens of millions of Americans” should get written off as deplorable and irredeemable? And I figure the candidate can say _yes,_ and stand by it; or _yes,_ but later disavow it; or _no,_ the ethical-purity, they-go-low-we-go-high answer. Which do you recommend? Tactical errors don’t invalidate the underlying philosophy. To provide a corollary to the old and tired proverb (I’m good at trotting those out :)), you can’t fight with pigs without getting dirty. To your hypothetical, the obvious _campaigning_ answer is No. The reality is different. The deplorables are out there, and they are overwhelmingly Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/83 "2017-07-17T17:13:03Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I find it very hard to believe that anyone who complained about the ‘deplorables’ line was actually planning to vote for Hillary anyway. Well, look, I not only planned to vote for Hillary, but did so. And so my hands are _clean,_ hey nonny nonny; but I’ll hereby complain about that line anyway. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/84 "2017-07-17T18:34:46Z")
Quartz wrote: " No one likes being called a racist…" Some actual racists do, but that sort is few and far between. Someone once called me a racist, but I convinced them that I just think I’m better than _everybody._ ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/85 "2017-07-18T04:18:16Z")
Personally, that comment was about the only point in the campaign where I actually _liked_ Clinton. She was stating a truth that many chose to pussyfoot around, and was doing so with an appropriately dignified, yet authentically outraged, affect. I mean, I’m not a swing voter, so YMMV. I agree that the comment is much more a target for RO from people who weren’t voting for Clinton anyway than a substantive explanation for the election result. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/86 "2017-07-18T10:46:06Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Personally, that comment was about the only point in the campaign where I actually _liked_ Clinton. She was stating a truth that many chose to pussyfoot around, and was doing so with an appropriately dignified, yet authentically outraged, affect. I mean, I’m not a swing voter, so YMMV. But, again: how did you feel the next day, when she publicly expressed regret for that comment? How did you feel when, at the debate, she got asked about that comment and backpedaled away from it – taking pains to spell out that, within hours, she said that she was sorry about what she’s said, because her argument is not with Trump’s supporters, but with him? Why _wouldn’t_ her argument be with them, if she’d been right about them? Why should she be at all sorry for dignifiedly telling a truth that many pussyfoot around, when she could’ve stood by it instead of, er, pussyfooting around? What happened to that authentic outrage when she was given a platform to elaborate on it? Again, the real question for me – per the thread’s title – is, what should the party’s candidate should say about this in 2020? Would you recommend first saying that the deplorables are irredeemable; and then expressing regret for saying that; and then making clear you have no argument with them, but only with the guy they support? Or would you recommend not doing that in the first place? Or would you recommend doing it, and then unflinchingly riding that line whenever asked? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/87 "2017-07-18T11:47:46Z")
Hillary’s problem wasn’t that comment. Her problem is the person who she is, and the number of non-partisans and independents who swore they would never,ever vote for her. The partisan fanaticism is every bit as strong with the Dems who largely seems completely blinded to any possibility except seeing the entire country as 100% with “us” or 100% against “us”. And there seems to be little hope for much improvement in the short term because they are committed to following up “See how much of a fuck up Trump is” with “Told you so, you should have voted for Hillary” rather than “okay, we fucked up too by putting Hillary on the ballot, we will commit to doing better in 2020 and beyond” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/88 "2017-07-18T13:05:51Z")
Waldo: the next day, I thought “Ah, there’s the old familiar Hillary, the one who will say anything to get elected, yet still isn’t very good at politics”. I think that covers all the questions in your first two paragraphs. To the last paragraph, you need to draw a distinction between the hardcore bigots and Nazi sympathizers who constituted Trump’s core of early supporters, and mainstream Republicans, who may not have been primarily motivated by xenophobia and hatred, but were OK with electing a guy who hangs out with Steve Bannon if there were tax cuts in it for them. Then you make the case that the second group of people is somehow not deplorable. If I could come up with a snappy way to express that distinction off the top of my head, I’d be doing that for a living instead of blathering on the internet. But that’s the basic idea. Also, you acknowledge that the pro-globalization economic policies of Clinton and Obama may have been good for “the economy” in some abstract sense, but also produced massive inequality and left a lot of people behind. You reassure them that the new Democratic Party is sensitive to their needs. You leave out the part about how, no matter how bad Clinton would have been, only an absolute fucking moron could have fallen for Trump’s racist snake oil. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/89 "2017-07-18T14:24:26Z")
“When They Go Low, We Go High” works great as a slogan, but in the real world it’s showing up for a gunfight not even with a knife but a peashooter. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/90 "2017-07-18T15:51:42Z")
I just finished reading _The Sopranos State,_ on the corruption in New Jersey. I wonder if Corey Booker can withstand the close examination of a national race. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/91 "2017-07-18T16:56:25Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I just finished reading _The Sopranos State,_ on the corruption in New Jersey. I wonder if Corey Booker can withstand the close examination of a national race. If Obama could get elected in Illinois, then New Jersey shouldn’t be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/92 "2017-07-19T15:09:45Z")
A depressing/exciting factoid: We are now at a point approximately equidistant in time between the first debates of the 2016 election and the first debates of the 2020 election. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/93 "2017-07-19T16:38:45Z")
More in the Name-Mentioning business: [Sen. Harris has impressed](http://observer.com/2017/07/donors-george-soros-steve-mnuchin-kamala-harris/) many of Hillary’s key supporters. > [@](#): > > On July 15, Page Six reported that Sen. Kamala Harris, a potential 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, met with top Clinton donors in the Hamptons. Many figures in Clinton’s inner circle attended, including Clinton’s 2008 Campaign National Finance co-Chair Michael Kempner, donors Dennis Mehiel and Steven Gambrel, and Democratic National Committeeman Robert Zimmerman. Harris also attended a separate luncheon hosted by one of Clinton’s top lobbyist bundlers, Liz Robbins. > > Harris’ meetings with Clinton’s donors signal that they are rallying behind her as the 2020 Democratic presidential nominee. Harris has emerged as a leading figure in the Trump Resistance; Politico reported that the hearings regarding Trump’s connections to Russia have enabled the Democratic Party to frame her as Trump’s most aggressive critic. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946/94 "2017-07-19T20:40:56Z")
Ah, I get it now. You’re angling to be her campaign manager, aren’t you? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2020-us-presidential-election/790946.md?page=4)