# 2021 US West drought and wildfire thread
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 10, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991 "2021-06-10T18:17:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/161 "2021-07-19T21:06:08Z")
Some people have been thinking about that…
> **[An "interstate water system" could fix the West's water woes](https://bigthink.com/the-present/an-interstate-water-system-could-fix-the-wests-water-woes/)**
>
> We have pipelines for oil and natural gas. Why not water?
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/162 "2021-07-19T21:39:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> America does not have a water supply problem; it has a water distribution problem.
I don’t think that is accurate.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/163 "2021-07-19T21:54:13Z")
The U.S. West has a massive amount of water; more than enough to supply residences and businesses. The problem is agriculture. For example the majority of the world’s almonds are grown in California and it takes 1900 gallons of water to grow a pound of almonds. The solution is for U.S. Western agriculture to switch to crops and livestock which require much less water. Farmers in the West get water for close to nothing; there is no way they could pay the costs for water from an Interstate water system.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/164 "2021-07-19T21:59:55Z")
It would be the Los Angeles strategy all over again. This is a dumb idea.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/165 "2021-07-21T16:19:29Z")
Smoke from fires in the west are now blotting out the sun in the east:
> **[Wildfire smoke clouds sky, hurts air quality on East Coast](https://apnews.com/article/science-fires-environment-and-nature-wildfires-cebad62e9bf8d5ed295b60fb9b0961fb)**
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Smoke and ash from massive wildfires in the American West clouded the sky and led to air quality alerts Wednesday on parts of the East Coast as the effects of the blazes were felt 2,500 miles (4,023 kilometers) away.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/166 "2021-07-21T17:29:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Smoke from fires in the west are now blotting out the sun in the east:
Yeah, I feel a little selfish about how happy I’ve been about our consistent onshore flow so far this season. It is shrouding our neighbors to the east, but allowing me to breathe free and easy on the coast. It’s very much a zero sum game in that sense. But it will likely change in the next month or so as offshore waters get warmer.
Another selfish conundrum - the wind is responsible for accelerating fire spread. But onshore flow has also allowed the coast to avoid the bulk of the heatwaves that have baked interior CA. Even facilitated a little light fog/mist/drizzle here and there.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/167 "2021-07-21T23:41:07Z")
Yes - I got an air quality warning from my weather app today because the fires in the West have spread particulate matter alll the way over here to central NC.
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### Author:  [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/168 "2021-07-22T18:02:18Z")
Here’s a quick read about working on the front line of the Bootleg fire.
> **[A Day With Portland Firefighters in a Camp at the Edge of an Inferno Called...](https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2021/07/21/a-day-with-portland-firefighters-in-a-camp-at-the-edge-of-an-inferno-called-the-bootleg-fire/)**
I found this part interesting:
> During the day, Kelly explains, the intense heat from the fire lifts plumes of smoke 40,000 feet in the air—causing an atmospheric vacuum that sucks in surrounding air, creating gusts that feed fresh oxygen to the fire. At night, the rapid cooling causes the column of smoke to collapse in on itself, generating 50-mile-an-hour winds that push the fire outward, causing rapid expansion.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/169 "2021-07-24T13:09:38Z")
Lake Oroville is sitting at about 655 feet; the norm is about 900 feet. The record low was set in 1977 at 643 feet and the lake is expected to drop below that soon. Officials are already planning on halting power generation ~~in August~~ sometime in the next 7-38 days.
> **[Lake Oroville Shows the Shocking Face of California's Drought | KQED](https://www.kqed.org/news/11882312/lake-oroville-shows-the-shocking-face-of-californias-drought)**
>
> A Northern California photographer documents how rapidly the state's second-largest reservoir has dwindled toward a record low.
3 minute video:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zoB-6jPJ7Y)
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/170 "2021-07-24T14:29:12Z")
Lake Oroville was basically at a full pool (900 feet) exactly two years ago.
> **[Lake Oroville Water Level](https://oroville.lakesonline.com/Level/)**
>
> Lake Oroville Water Level including historical chart
Frankly they seem to be irresponsible for letting this much water be removed in just two years, as droughts can last longer than two years.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/171 "2021-07-24T15:05:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Frankly they seem to be irresponsible for letting this much water be removed in just two years, as droughts can last longer than two years.
That’s not really the way it works. A reservoir is sometimes compared to a bank, just for water instead of money. But money doesn’t evaporate away just from sitting in one spot. Water is sort of a use it or lose it deal.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/172 "2021-07-24T19:33:45Z")
Lake Oroville is probably roughly similar to Lake Tahoe in evaporation.
> Measurements of _evaporation_ rates at the _lake_ indicate that 36 inches of _water evaporate_ from the _lake annually_ ,
> **[Ask Tom: What is the evaporation rate of Lake Tahoe?](https://www.chicagotribune.com/weather/ct-wea-1118-asktom-20161117-column.html)**
>
> 1.4 million tons of water evaporate from Lake Tahoe every day.
This is three feet or 6 six feet in two years which is a small fraction of the 250 feet decline in two years.
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/173 "2021-07-24T22:13:42Z")
I’m assuming the main purpose of the dam is power generation, along with drinking water/possibly irrigation.
Which of those uses would you have curtailed? This isn’t Russia draining the Aral Sea - the lake wouldn’t be there without the dam being built to store the water for use.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/174 "2021-07-24T22:15:16Z")
Remember that as the lake level drops, the lake narrows. One foot becomes less water as you go down.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2021, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/175 "2021-07-25T11:29:27Z")
Here’s a good overview of things today, details on many fires:
[https://apnews.com/article/fires-environment-and-nature-climate-change-wildfires-df25788889399b3f41d0415ec95abffd](https://apnews.com/article/fires-environment-and-nature-climate-change-wildfires-df25788889399b3f41d0415ec95abffd)
> More than 85 large wildfires were burning around the country, most of them in Western states, and they had burned over 1.4 million acres (2,135 square miles, or more than 553,000 hectares).
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/176 "2021-07-27T05:02:14Z")
Here’s a development:
> **[Warming rivers in US West killing fish, imperiling industry](https://apnews.com/article/business-environment-and-nature-fish-climate-change-5c85e86a2ba18171ca55d5de8f89dea3)**
>
> SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Baby salmon are dying by the thousands in one California river, and an entire run of endangered salmon could be wiped out in another. Fishermen who make their living off adult salmon, once they enter the Pacific Ocean, are...
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2021, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/177 "2021-07-27T06:38:08Z")
The smoke is so bad here I feel like a 5-pack a day smoker. It’s thick in the morning, then the wind picks up and blows it in worse. It snows ash. They say its gonna rain, but it doesn’t.
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> This is three feet or 6 six feet in two years which is a small fraction of the 250 feet decline in two years.
Wait, What? I assure you, Lake Tahoe has not dropped 250. If it did, I’d go look for the wallet I lost in 1989.
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### Author:  [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/178 "2021-07-30T14:12:46Z")
Well, shit. We have to cancel or alter our long-planned camping, biking, floating trip in MT. It’s hard to get camping reservations so we made them long ago. We were supposed to leave tomorrow. I’ve been daily watching the AQI maps as well as wildfire maps and the Thorne Creek fire is raging on, growing every day and smoking out the area. My wife and I came up with a plan B in an area we hope isn’t quite as smoky but can we find a spot to put our tent down? We prefer National Forest campgrounds or their dispersed spots, but it’s a roll the dice situation.
I had to cancel a backpacking trip two summers ago. I feel like you can no longer make any sort of outdoor plans for the summer in the west.
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/179 "2021-07-31T03:05:42Z")
I am really sorry this is happening to you. No sarcasm intended. So many plans and hopes and dreams have been dashed in the last couple of years, no wonder people are feeling overwhelmed.
> **[Drought conditions improve from storm, but the problem isn't fixed](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-weather/2021/07/29/drought-conditions-improve-storm-but-problem-isnt-fixed/5417362001/)**
>
> According to the latest drought monitor, 52% of the state is now in "extreme or exceptional drought," compared to last week's statistic of 84%.
The storms have really helped with the fires, the sky has been clear and blue between storms and the air smells wonderful.
I am fully aware that this is just a nice little respite, so I am spending as much time outside enjoying it as possible.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-us-west-drought-and-wildfire-thread/943991/180 "2021-08-01T03:55:15Z")
Hey, look; it isn’t just the US having trouble with wildfires right now:
> **[Turkey evacuates panicked tourists by boat from wildfires](https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-middle-east-travel-fires-environment-and-nature-eb6a138ac15b2015ae1089492d2e0be2)**
>
> ISTANBUL (AP) — Panicked tourists in Turkey hurried to the seashore to wait for rescue boats Saturday after being told to evacuate some hotels in the Aegean Sea resort of Bodrum due to the dangers posed by nearby wildfires, Turkish media reported.
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