# 2021 World Chess Championship Carlsen vs Nepo **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game, chess\ **Created:** [November 30, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206 "2021-11-30T12:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/61 "2021-12-10T22:01:17Z")
I would think that the fact that pawn moves being irreversible wouldn’t be too big a deal, because even though other moves can be reversed, you really don’t want to (at least, not until other aspects of the strategic situation have changed so much that it’s not a “reversal”). If I move a piece, then my opponent moves, and then I move my piece back, I’ve lost two moves worth of tempo, which is catastrophic. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/62 "2021-12-10T22:04:43Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > As for coming and going from the board, I seem to remember that in at least one WC match Karpov and Kasparov had private rooms offstage, and they often retreated there I played for many years in a massive Dutch chess tournament, with sections from beginner all the way up to International Master (IM) and finally Grandmaster (GM.) It was held in a sports hall and the toilets at one end of the room were reserved for the GMs and IMs. Fair enough (they were playing for large prize funds and there were enough toilets at the other end of the room for the other players.) One year I qualified for the IM tournament, which meant I experienced the ‘high life’! 😀 I got: - met at the airport by a courtesy car - given free accommodation and meals at a nearby hotel - free entry to the tournament - use of the exclusive toilets ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/63 "2021-12-10T22:10:57Z")
Wait, did you play in Wijk aan Zee!? I know the tournament itself changed names a lot, but whatever it was called, I used to really enjoy reading tournament updates from there in the old Inside Chess magazine. I’ll bet that was a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/64 "2021-12-10T22:18:11Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I only reached FIDE Master level, but I used to get up several times during a game. Two questions and I don’t mean anything by it. For some reason I have in my mind you were English champion, is that true? Is FIDE master typically competitive for that championship, or was your run exceptional? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/65 "2021-12-10T22:21:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would think that the fact that pawn moves being irreversible wouldn’t be too big a deal, I think the point is more that weaknesses created by moving a piece can be “fixed” by moving more pieces (maybe a bishop moves to defend a square that a knight was defending). But a weakness created by a pawn push is permanent in some ways - you can never bring that pawn back to defend the square(s) he abandoned. At least that’s how my non-expert mind took it. > [@glee](#): > > In my experience, blunders are more likely when: > > - you are winning > - you are short of time > - you are feeling confident (for example, you have successfully predicted several of your opponent’s moves) > - you are focused on one part of the board (e.g. you have a very promising mating attack) > - you are tired Yeah, those all ring true to me. But what’s so odd is that none of them seem to apply to Nepo’s blunders other than maybe the “tired” factor after the epic Game 6. All three blunders happened in what the computer and the evaluators thought was a pretty drawish position. Stockfish was literally at 0.1 before each move. All of them happened in middle game, out of prep. In all three cases Nepo had more time than Magnus, and also had a significant amount of time left. I dunno, they were all very confusing moves, and Nepo seemed pretty unable to understand/explain it as well. As far as how quickly GMs can figure out positions, Magnus took 79 seconds to punish Nepo’s blunder today. Since it involved an exchange sacrifice, and all other moves are losing for black, that’s pretty amazing. In the earlier game (where Ian got his bishop trapped) Judit Polgar actually proposed the c5 move Nepo ended up playing on the live stream and super-GM Anish Giri, co-commentating, immediately said “that traps the bishop”. He was stunned when Nepo played it, to the point that he thought there was an error in the feed. Unfortunately I think this Championship will be remembered only for Game 6 and then Nepo completely falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/66 "2021-12-10T22:32:26Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Wait, did you play in Wijk aan Zee!? I know the tournament itself changed names a lot, but whatever it was called, I used to really enjoy reading tournament updates from there in the old Inside Chess magazine. I’ll bet that was a lot of fun. Yup, I played there 17 times! At first I went by train from London to Harwich; ferry to Hook; rail to Beverwijk\*; bus to Wijk-Aan-Zee\*. Later I flew to Amsterdam Schipol and got a train to Beverwijk. \*apparently ‘Beaver village’ and ‘village on the sea’ The tournament was well-organised and the large number of sections made it easy to find your level. I think I started in section 3 (out of 10; lower is stronger), gradually progressed to section 1 (Master Reserves) and one year played in the IM group. All the Dutch spoke English and the food was good. I particularly enjoyed the Dutch-Indonesian Rijsttafel (a 17 course banquet. 😍) I had the distinction of being mentioned in the closing ceremony, even though I hadn’t won anything. I’d had a good game v H. Grooten (a strong local player), but I couldn’t pronounce his surname correctly. 🤨 When the sponsor gave his speech at the prize-giving, he said “Of course we welcome our foreign friends, who add so much to the event. By the way glee, it’s pronounced ‘grooten’!” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/67 "2021-12-10T22:45:38Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > For some reason I have in my mind you were English champion, is that true? > > Is FIDE master typically competitive for that championship, or was your run exceptional? I have won two English Championships - but they were at speed chess and chess problem-solving. My best in the over-the-board British Championship was 4th =. The standard (and number of titled players) in the over-the-board British Championship has steadily increased over the years. In the 1970s I would have been ranked around 10-20. Nowadays probably just in the top half… > [@Jas09](#): > > As far as how quickly GMs can figure out positions, Magnus took 79 seconds to punish Nepo’s blunder today. Since it involved an exchange sacrifice, and all other moves are losing for black, that’s pretty amazing. Ah, but you have not allowed for the fact that all top players analyse several moves ahead! So by the time they reached the key position, Magnus was just checking his previous work. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/68 "2021-12-10T23:26:57Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Ah, but you have not allowed for the fact that all top players analyse several moves ahead! Truly amazing. I imagine Magnus probably knew that g3 didn’t work as soon as move 19 or so (when he pushed d5). Every move after that was the top engine move until g3. So you are right, he had certainly thought about that move for much longer than 79 seconds! I guess I almost understand what Ian was doing there. At first glance g3 looks suicidal - something I would never do at my level. But he had to win, and the other moves are likely drawing and actually immediately simplify to a Queen + Rook endgame. Maybe taking a chance that Magnus would decline the exchange sacrifice was the best course… but probably not, because, you know, it’s Magnus. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/69 "2021-12-11T00:43:05Z")
I do think it was deliberate strategy on Nepo’s part after losing game 6. In game 8 he made choices to avoid drawish positions prior to his blunder. In game 9 he was playing quickly and had a time advantage and some pressure on Magnus. Of course it ended up backfiring, but as a strategy it makes some sense. Down in the match against Magnus, he has to do _something_. He’s basically increasing his chances of a comeback in exchange for higher chances of a catastrophe, and unfortunately he got the catastrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/70 "2021-12-11T01:11:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If I move a piece, then my opponent moves, and then I move my piece back, I’ve lost two moves worth of tempo, which is catastrophic. I don’t think it’s quite that simple in most situations because: a) Usually the first move is at least threatening or defending something, so it’s rarely two full tempi to the opponent. b) Backwards doesn’t necessarily mean returning to the same cell, or on the next move, there are other options. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/71 "2021-12-15T12:08:42Z")
Some interesting charts. Not sure how useful, but interesting. Which squares were the most moved to? > **[The World Chess Championship In 5 Charts](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-world-chess-championship-in-5-charts/)** > > The 2021 World Chess Championship ended last week with Magnus Carlen of Norway, the world No. 1, defending his title against challenger Ian Nepomniachtchi of Ru… Brian ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/72 "2021-12-15T14:02:07Z")
So apparently Magnus has said he’s only interested in defending his title against Alireza? Any ideas what would happen if he declines to defend against, say, Fabiano? Would the top-2 challengers play for the title? > **[Magnus Carlsen may opt against world chess defence due to lack of motivation](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/14/magnus-carlsen-ready-to-give-up-world-chess-title-due-to-lack-of-motivation)** > > Magnus Carlsen says he is ready to shock the chess world by giving up his world championship title as defending it no longer motivates him ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/73 "2021-12-15T14:16:36Z")
From what I read on [chess.com](http://chess.com), that does seem to be what would happen. Candidates winner vs runner-up in championship match. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/74 "2021-12-15T14:26:41Z")
On reading that article, I agree with him. The format of the championship, including the candidates tournament, is far from optimal for either dynamic, risky chess or generating interest in the game. Maybe with the world champion making such a “threat” some tentative changes might happen. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/75 "2021-12-15T14:39:35Z")
I get it. Magnus knows he’s better than everyone else. Yeah, it’s possible he slips up and loses a series to them, but in expectation he’s clearly better. Given his age and ascent, it’s less clear with Alireza. A lot less excitement in a match you’re supposed to win and can only fail. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/76 "2021-12-15T14:39:47Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > To a meaningful extent, he always did: If the 14 games played under standard time control end with equal scores, the tiebreak will be rapid chess, at which I think it’s generally believed Carlsen has a significant advantage. Lay question: I’ve read several references to Carlsen being behind on time, i.e. having used up more of his allotted time, as compared to his opponent. That suggests that Carlsen tends to move slower than his opponent does. But yet, apparently “it’s generally believed Carlsen has a significant advantage” at rapid chess. Are those facts at all odd in juxtaposition? Does it make sense for someone who is generally a slower, more deliberate thinker, to also have a significant advantage at rapid chess? (Or are my facts wrong altogether?) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/77 "2021-12-15T14:59:41Z")
A good question. I don’t think there is an inconsistency. Using more time in classical chess doesn’t mean Carlsen is thinking more slowly; there is a lot of strategy involved in how a player uses that relatively long time. In fact, given that Carlsen knows he’s a very fast calculator and is unlikely to blunder in time pressure\* he can use more time to double-check plans and re-play positions in his mind earlier on. Versus blitz being more of a test of raw calculation and visualization speed. \* Of course, it didn’t entirely go to plan this time, as Carlsen \*did\* blunder in time pressure in the critical game 6. But hey, even Carlsen is human. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/78 "2021-12-15T15:11:50Z")
Just to get an idea, Magnus right now is ranked #1 at blitz (with Nakamura close behind – last year Nakamura at some point was ahead), he’s #1 at rapid (with Ding and Nakamura close behind) and, of course, #1 at classical. So he does fine with all three time controls. FIDE Rapid controls are 15 minutes with a ten second increment from move 1, and Blitz controls are 3 minutes with two second increment from move one. (Increment meaning you get additional time added to the clock after your move.) He finished second to Wesley So at the Fischer Random chess tournament in 2019. (Fischer Random is played like duplicate bridge, where both sides take a go at playing from a randomly selected (out of 960) starting position. The idea is to put less reliance on prep and extended opening theory in the game.) I think all it means is that Magnus is very fast at paring down his “decision tree,” but takes time to explore deeper complexities in variations he can’t under stricter time controls. That, and more time to double check his work. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/79 "2021-12-15T15:20:59Z")
In my experience, classical time controls involve careful play in a prepared opening (especially watching out for an innovation by your opponent), followed by serious calculation of various candidate moves in the middlegame. There is enough time to do this. With rapid, you have to rely on more your instinct instinct and only brief checking. An extra 10 seconds per move is not enough to do more, even for these world-class players. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206/80 "2021-12-15T17:42:08Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > I’ve read several references to Carlsen being behind on time … This was frequently true - but it doesn’t imply he’s a slower thinker. If you’re good at thinking about chess (as Magnus certainly is) it can pay to do more of it. Nepo got some criticism for not using enough time: if with a 30-minute time advantage you make a dubious move, it makes sense to ask whether burning some of that time might have allowed you to spot the problem. As others have noted, the mental approach to speed chess is widely held to be distinct from that used with standard time controls. So Magnus’ deliberate approach during the match with Nepo in no way implies weakness in a rapid match. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2021-world-chess-championship-carlsen-vs-nepo/955206.md?page=5)