# 2023/4 NCAA Football playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [October 22, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907 "2023-10-22T03:16:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/81 "2023-12-04T23:58:30Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Seen on Twitter/X: > > Florida State isn’t that great: > > - pulled away late from 6-5 Group of 5 team > - needed a prayer to beat 6-6 rival > - 3 point win vs. 4-8 in-conference foe > - lost by 10 at home > > Oh wait, shoot! This is my Alabama file. One second… > > Some light editing has been done. I have it on my phone, but don’t have the account name. FYI: Dude’s name is apparently [Benjamin Wolk](https://twitter.com/benjaminwolk/status/1731192016275394671?s=20). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/82 "2023-12-05T01:48:51Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Florida State hosting Oklahoma Actually, Liberty would get the last spot as the highest ranked group of 5 champion so Oklahoma is out. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/83 "2023-12-05T02:41:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Actually, Liberty would get the last spot as the highest ranked group of 5 champion so Oklahoma is out Correct. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/84 "2023-12-05T22:56:47Z")
> [@OldManLogan](#): > > Tradition. I just pissed myself laughing! ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/85 "2023-12-06T01:39:34Z")
I’ve got no problem with the four playoff teams. Five conference champions walk into a bar, only four come out. FSU with the weakest strength of schedule - one of the judging factors. FSU with a season ending injury to the star quarterback - also a judging factor. Maybe they’ll get to show the world (small world) in the bowl game by cleaning Georgia’s clock. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/86 "2023-12-06T01:53:12Z")
[![](https://i.imgur.com/05o6eoA.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/05o6eoA.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/87 "2023-12-06T06:52:18Z")
I know no one cares, and I’ve done this rant here before, but the entire CFB playoff is a foolish endeavor. It’s always been figure skating. Back in the dark days of the 80s the National Champ was awarded in the newspapers on January 2nd by a bunch of hack writers and coaches, most of whom didn’t watch 80% of the games. That was the Natty in it’s purest form. And most teams and fan bases rightly cared more about winning their conference, winning a major NYE bowl game, and then reading the final rankings in the papers and going about their day. The BCS and the subsequent CFB Playoff are just window dressing over what is effectively the same fraudulent premise. The major downside is that programs, networks and fans now care more about their seeding than they do about winning their conference. Teams that aren’t national media darlings can’t really win their way into the conversation. Which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as recruits know the game and aren’t going to “stay home” or attach themselves to a coach anywhere but the blue-chip schools. FSU was undefeated. Bama lost to one of the teams in the tournament. That should be treated like a de facto single elimination. So, if we’re actually just awarding slots to the “best” team based on arbitrary judgment at a single moment in time, why don’t we extend the logic? What if Bama beats Michigan in the Title game, but Milroe pops an Achilles at the start of the 4th quarter? When the season’s over and we sit back and decide who the best team in the country is, can’t we just say that this version of Alabama wouldn’t be able to beat Michigan? They are no longer the best team in the country without that player. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/88 "2023-12-06T08:20:25Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > So, if we’re actually just awarding slots to the “best” team based on arbitrary judgment at a single moment in time, why don’t we extend the logic? Washingon and Oregon played twice. Much of the hype before their second game was that the winner would be in the four-team playoff. If Oregon had won that game, they would have split their two games with Washington and finished with the same record, so why does that give Oregon the automatic bid? Some games seem to count more than others. You’re right that it’s still arbitrary. I think the posters who are saying that a twelve-team playoff will settle the matter are fooling themselves. We’ll have the same hue and cry from the 13th place team that we now get from the 5th place team. \ With all these extra games, how do the players find time to go to class? \ ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/89 "2023-12-06T12:23:52Z")
Seen on the interwebs yesterday: Breaking news: Florida St fans are now claiming all over the internet that the Jacksonville Jags are no longer eligible for the playoffs because their starting quarterback, Trevor Lawrence is out with a severe ankle injury. Of course, now it appears Lawrence will return sometime this season, so this assertion is no longer valid. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/90 "2023-12-06T16:13:27Z")
I don’t like the “their star player is injured so they’re no longer a top 4 team” excuse. Maybe the #2 is perfectly capable but never got the chance. I look at FSU and ask: “would they have treated Clemson that way?” In my opinion, no way. CFB is a caste system. Some teams are allowed a loss or even two to get in, some are allowed in IF they have a perfect record and IF they’re key players are healthy, some have no chance whatsoever to get in even with a perfect record. The 12 team playoff is a step in the right direction but to be fair, EVERY conference should get their champion in, just as is done in basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/91 "2023-12-06T16:15:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t like the “their star player is injured so they’re no longer a top 4 team” excuse. In fact if they continue to win that should solidify their place in the playoffs because it shows the success is due to the whole team and not just one star player. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/92 "2023-12-06T16:20:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t like the “their star player is injured so they’re no longer a top 4 team” excuse. Maybe the #2 is perfectly capable but never got the chance. Their #2, Tate Rodemaker, suffered a concussion before the Louisville game and was ruled out. They won the game with their #3, Brock Glenn, who made his first collegiate start that day. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/93 "2023-12-06T16:21:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > EVERY conference should get their champion in If we combine the Pac-2 and Mountain West, there are 9 conferences. 9 conference champions + 7 wild cards = 16 teams. Perfect. AAAAAAAND the 8th highest ranked wild card can’t complain because 1. Win your conference 2. Seriously?! You’re 8th best in the also rans. Why do you deserve a spot? I would actually add a limit to the number of teams from a conference but then we have to listen to the 5th best team in the SEC saying they were left out and “16 best teams”. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/94 "2023-12-06T16:37:11Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > [https://i.imgur.com/05o6eoA.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/05o6eoA.jpg) The problem is, even if Florida State beats Georgia in the Orange Bowl, it’s going to be very hard to find a computer ranking that has Florida State above the CFP winner. Colley (the one that ranked UCF #1 in 2017) won’t; it currently has FSU #5 and Georgia #7. Besides, even if, somehow, one does, unless it’s one of the ones that whoever maintains the list of “Final National Poll Leaders” in the [NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision Records](http://fs.ncaa.org.s3.amazonaws.com/Docs/stats/football_records/FBS.pdf) document (the one that UCF’s supporters use to claim that its national championship is “recognized by the NCAA” somehow), UCF will just say that “our championship is recognized by the NCAA, so it’s legitimate, while yours isn’t, so stop claiming one, and if any of your players got championship rings, make sure all of the games they play in from now on are vacated as they are ineligible” (which, BTW, isn’t true - any team in a bowl game is entitled to give out rings for that game, win or lose, and the NCAA doesn’t care if they say “National Champions”, as long as they don’t say “NCAA Champions”). ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/95 "2023-12-06T16:37:33Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I know no one cares, and I’ve done this rant here before, but the entire CFB playoff is a foolish endeavor. Where it goes wrong is the goal of determining the “best” team. That goal will always produce controversy sooner or later, because it’s not objectively measurable. There will always be deficiencies like the lack of every team playing every other, or edge cases like groups of three teams forming a cycle of wins against each other. That is why a single-elimination tournament consisting of only conference champions is a better system. If you win your conference, you’re in; if you fail to win your conference, you’re out. No complaining about it–win your conference next season. Then put all the conference champions in a single-elimination bracket. Add byes as needed. The winner of the tournament is undisputedly the champion of champions. A champions-only system gives every team a path to being champion of champions. But as you say, no one cares. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/96 "2023-12-06T18:25:49Z")
I’m eagerly awaiting the day when the B1G and SEC reach 24 teams each, then completely break free from the NCAA for football. Then we can have eight 6 team divisions. The division winners face off in a 4 team playoff for the conference title. Then a final title game to settle the crown. Screw everyone else, sorry UCF and Lousiville, you can be the champions of the NCAA. Let’s end this charade where we pretend we’re filtering out the full 120+ FBS teams. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/97 "2023-12-06T18:38:30Z")
Fully concur. And maybe then we can FINALLY get rid of this idiotic “athletes must enroll in classes at the university” requirement. Why? What’s the point? Let’s end this charade where we pretend that “student-athletes” are attending and participating in class, much less working toward a degree. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/98 "2023-12-06T19:54:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Where it goes wrong is the goal of determining the “best” team. That goal will always produce controversy sooner or later, because it’s not objectively measurable. There will always be deficiencies like the lack of every team playing every other, or edge cases like groups of three teams forming a cycle of wins against each other. > > That is why a single-elimination tournament consisting of only conference champions is a better system. If you win your conference, you’re in; if you fail to win your conference, you’re out. No complaining about it–win your conference next season. The problem there is, you still have the “cycle of three teams” problem - just at a lower level. Any tiebreaker is going to be either convoluted or objective. What are you supposed to do - bring all three teams to a neutral site, have each offense start first-and-10 from the 25 against both of the other two defenses, and see who scores the most points? For example, if Penn State would have beaten Michigan this year, the Big 10 East champion would have been decided based on the combined conference records of the three teams’ (including Ohio State’s) three Big Ten West opponents. At least it beats tossing coins. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/99 "2023-12-06T20:05:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > One problem with letting FSU in is that they look like a team that could very well get annihilated 65-7 the way TCU did last year. Not only would that be an embarrassment to the committee, but it would lead to uproar by Texas/Bama fans who would be enraged about their team having been left out in favor of a weak team that gets crushed. If TCU got beaten down in a semi, I would entertain that argument. But they beat Michigan in a pretty fun game, so that seems like an invalid place to come from. FSU getting left out is absolute nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907/100 "2023-12-06T22:00:10Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The problem there is, you still have the “cycle of three teams” problem - just at a lower level. Any tiebreaker is going to be either convoluted or objective. What are you supposed to do - bring all three teams to a neutral site, have each offense start first-and-10 from the 25 against both of the other two defenses, and see who scores the most points? Exactly. Finding the “best” is a problem at every level. You avoid it by not trying to find the “best” team. Conference championships should be decided by clear rules. ([For example, the Big Ten tiebreakers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Football_Championship_Game#Selection_criteria)) There’s no subjectivity; a team could’ve always qualified if it’d won more games. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2023-4-ncaa-football-playoffs/991907.md?page=6)