# 2024 NFL Pre-Draft Thread - The Chicago Bears are on the clock (for now) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548 "2024-02-14T07:01:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/201 "2024-03-19T03:42:02Z")
Again, I don’t understand what the Saints are doing. They’re not a few players away from contention. They’re like $80 mil over the cap _before_ signing him. This makes no sense whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/202 "2024-03-19T03:47:23Z")
The Saints are the new Titans…7-9 wins, every fucking year. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/203 "2024-03-25T18:26:04Z")
NFL banning the “swivel hip-drop tackle”; shockingly some defensive players are not happy. Of course, they’re not the ones getting injured by it. Not to mention, according to the NFL’s stats, it really only happens about once a game on average. “Tackling Banned,” as Jevon Holland clutches his pearls, it really is not. > **[NFL players seem irate after owners unanimously approve new rule that bans...](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-players-seem-irate-after-owners-unanimously-approve-new-rule-that-bans-hip-drop-tackles/)** > > Most defensive players are NOT on board with a new NFL rule that was approved on Monday ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/204 "2024-03-25T18:32:43Z")
I’m okay with the rule as long as potential ball carriers have a flag the defenders can pull out for the tackle ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/205 "2024-03-25T19:01:34Z")
“The injury rate is somewhere between 20 to 25 times higher than that of other tackles.” Pretty easy to justify a rule change here, even if defenders whine about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/206 "2024-03-25T19:23:33Z")
The hip drop tackle is just a horse collar with different hand placement. Completely reasonable to ban this. I understand that NFL officiating is trash and expecting these guys to apply common sense when deciding when to flag this is a serious and legitimate concern. But that’s a really poor argument to not implement the rule. Year one will probably be pretty ugly. But like the rules protecting the QBs the players and refs will settle down over time and it was be mostly okay. Fortunately I don’t see this rule causing some huge spike in offensive output. You’re pretty unlikely to inadvertently hip drop someone and I don’t see a way for offenses to explicitly exploit it (as they might with QB late slides). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/207 "2024-03-26T01:26:18Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > NFL banning the “swivel hip-drop tackle”; shockingly some defensive players are not happy. Of course, they’re not the ones getting injured by it. Not to mention, according to the NFL’s stats, it really only happens about once a game on average. “Tackling Banned,” as Jevon Holland clutches his pearls, it really is not. > > [NFL players seem irate after owners unanimously approve new rule that bans hip-drop tackles - CBSSports.com](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-players-seem-irate-after-owners-unanimously-approve-new-rule-that-bans-hip-drop-tackles/) That article is misleading. It quotes a bunch of defensive players but the entire players union was against it. I’ve seen a bunch of players talking about it but haven’t seen one saying it’s a good change. They give it a fancy name but it’s just tackling someone from behind. Catching someone from behind doesn’t happen every play but now it’s going to be difficult or impossible to do without getting flagged. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/208 "2024-03-26T02:25:04Z")
During the press conference they showed video. Looked like a bunch of normal tackles. I disagree that this won’t have an effect on offensive output. > ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/209 "2024-03-26T02:37:56Z")
The now-banned tackle specifically includes falling on the runner’s legs with the full weight of your body. That is not a standard tackle, as evidenced by the fact that a tackle like this happens on average once per game. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/210 "2024-03-26T02:40:35Z")
The 49ers-Cowboys example is the only one that gives me concern. That looks like a natural tackle. The rest are egregious examples of very obviously dangerous plays. Using your body weight to collapse a guys knees is not normal. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/211 "2024-03-26T18:09:11Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The now-banned tackle specifically includes falling on the runner’s legs with the full weight of your body. To me it’s reminiscent of an alligator roll; this is football not pro wrestling. There are (relatively) safe ways to tackle people, this is certainly not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/212 "2024-03-26T18:49:17Z")
Speaking of new rules, [the NFL passed its new kickoff rules](https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-owners-pass-new-kickoff-rule-at-annual-league-meeting). Here’s pretty much how it works: Kickoffs will still be from the 35, and since they pretty much always land in the end zone anyway, the ball will be brought out to the 30. Seriously, here’s how it works: Other than the kicker, the kicking team’s players line up on the **receiving team’s** 40 Nine of the receiving team’s players line up between their own 30 and 35; the other two line up behind their own 20 Only the kicker and the two back receivers can move before the ball touches either the ground or a player past the receiving team’s 20 There is no more “fair catch behind the 25 is a touchback” rule A touchback where the ball hit the ground/a player in front of the goal line is spotted at the 20; if it first landed behind the goal line, or went over the end zone, it is spotted on the 30 Onside kicks are only allowed in the fourth quarter or in OT, and only by the team that is behind; the referee has to be notified in advance, and the current kickoff rules would apply. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/213 "2024-03-26T19:08:34Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The 49ers-Cowboys example is the only one that gives me concern. That looks like a natural tackle. The rest are egregious examples of very obviously dangerous plays. Using your body weight to collapse a guys knees is not normal. I wonder why the union was against it then? When trying to bring someone down you can’t just hold on and they will stop. Particularly when it’s a smaller faster corner catching up to a bigger player. It’s a matter of momentum. Maybe if they ask nicely to go to the ground. Can’t tackle high. Can’t tackle low. Now the middle will get you a 15 yard penalty too. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/214 "2024-03-26T19:21:08Z")
There are typically around 120 tackles in an NFL game. Maybe the defenders can tackle people the way they do the 119 times where they aren’t using a hip-drop tackle. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/215 "2024-03-26T19:27:22Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Speaking of new rules, [the NFL passed its new kickoff rules](https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-owners-pass-new-kickoff-rule-at-annual-league-meeting). Once the ball is caught, it more or less looks the same as before, they’re just not running into each other at full speed. It looks just like this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-j2ZISgGat0/maxresdefault.jpg "XFL Kickoff 2023 Season") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j2ZISgGat0) ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/216 "2024-03-26T19:37:08Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Onside kicks are only allowed in the fourth quarter or in OT, and only by the team that is behind; the referee has to be notified in advance, and the current kickoff rules would apply. This part is not as straightforward, and I’m not sure I like it. While “4th quarter and behind” is the most likely and most prudent use of the onside kick, I’m not sure the reasoning behind restricting it this way. The wisdom of doing so notwithstanding, it kind of erases a potentially important strategic play. While the “surprise onside kick” is a rare play, and even less frequently successful, it’s still a viable strategy IMO. They should just outlaw the play altogether if they’re going to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/217 "2024-03-26T19:46:17Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > There are typically around 120 tackles in an NFL game. Maybe the defenders can tackle people the way they do the 119 times where they aren’t using a hip-drop tackle. The rest of the time it’s usually head to head or close to it. If you are coming from behind you can either use your body weight to bring them down to the ground or if you’re strong enough grab and slam them to the ground. But oops that’s also illegal. Maybe they will two hand tounch them and hope they trip? The players union isn’t just for the defense. If the players didn’t see this as a bad rule for all the players they wouldn’t be against it. The NFL loves scoring because that’s what the casuals like so they don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/218 "2024-03-26T20:16:53Z")
What you’re describing isn’t banned. It’s not just using your body weight to tackle someone; it’s specifically the swivel version where the player lifts himself in the air off the ball carrier, then swivels to drop onto the player’s legs. If they don’t lift themselves up, no penalty. If they don’t fall on the runner’s legs, no penalty. Again, it happens about _once a game_. This is not banning tackling, reducing the game to two-handed touch, or whatever other ridiculous exaggerations you want to make. Fifteen players missed a game last season specifically due to a tackle that happened only 230 times in the entire season. It has _20 to 25 times_ the injury rate of other tackles. [The players’ union had two concerns with this rule,](https://sports.yahoo.com/why-is-nfl-banning-hip-drop-tackle-and-what-does-that-even-mean-breaking-down-latest-controversial-rule-change-215134053.html) neither of which were fear that defenders could no longer tackle runners. One was a general concern that players are not allowed sufficient input on rule changes and refs might have insufficient training. The other is that one of the NFLPA’s goals is to reduce player fines, and they fear this change will lead to more fines. And editorializing: NFL players do not make good assessments of injury risk and how to balance safety concerns. My cite: they play football. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/219 "2024-03-26T20:31:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I wonder why the union was against it then? Because half the union is defensive players. Perhaps another quarter are offensive players who aren’t ball carriers. And the league has instituted a lot of new safety rules over the last few years for which the enforcement is, shall we say, inconsistent. The majority of people opposed seatbelt laws too. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548/220 "2024-03-26T20:38:13Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Seriously, here’s how it works: > Other than the kicker, the kicking team’s players line up on the **receiving team’s** 40 > Nine of the receiving team’s players line up between their own 30 and 35; the other two line up behind their own 20 > Only the kicker and the two back receivers can move before the ball touches either the ground or a player past the receiving team’s 20 I don’t hate this new rule, but it got me wondering: Why kick the ball at all? Why not just have the “kick returner” be a ball carrier who can start anywhere on the goal line or in the end zone, with one “free” blocker and the other 20 players lined up as you describe? Whistle blows, guys block, ball carrier gets as far upfield as he can. I realize this removes the chance of the “kick returner” muffing the kick or failing to field it, but how often does that actually happen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2024-nfl-pre-draft-thread-the-chicago-bears-are-on-the-clock-for-now/997548.md?page=12)