# 23rd psalm etc. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111 "2008-03-05T00:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/41 "2008-03-07T13:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=photopat] I read #23 earlier today, as a refresher. Didn’t change my mind. Still an atheist. [/QUOTE] Well, you can always try again tomorrow. ( 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/42 "2008-03-07T13:37:23Z")
I was taken to church for 10 years (aged 4-14). It was Christian Protestant Congregationalist\*. We had a Sunday School for the kids. I listened carefully and even won the RE prize at School, as well as passing a National exam in Religious knowledge. When I was 14 I asked my Sunday School teacher (a decent man) what evidence there was for God. He said there wasn’t any - it was purely on faith. Since God (if he exists) hasn’t given me any faith, I am an atheist. Just because a Psalm is charming is no reason to prove that one (or any) religion is correct. I know the Bible pretty well and it’s a real mish-mash. Legends, advice (from excellent to weird), lists of Kings, good behaviour, appalling behaviour, detailed laws which do (Judaism) or don’t (Christianity) apply… \*the fact there are so many World religions, usually subdivided into opposing beliefs, then into sects makes me really puzzled. if there’s one God, why can’t He do better explaining Himself? ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/43 "2008-03-07T21:37:44Z")
Here’s an example of something that sometimes makes me have a “Yeah, I think there may be a higher power” moment—it doesn’t have a religious theme but IMO could fit perfectly in the Bible or other religious books. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” > **[The New Colossus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Colossus)** > > "The New Colossus" is a sonnet by American poet Emma Lazarus (1849–1887). She wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for the construction of a pedestal for the Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World). In 1903, the poem was cast onto a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level. > This poem was written as a donation to an auction of art and literary works conducted by the "Art Loan Fund Exhibition in Aid of the Bartholdi Pedestal Fund for the Statue of Liberty" to raise... ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/44 "2008-03-07T22:18:24Z")
What about these verses? For me, they more than offset any of the beauty in the Bible: Deuteronomy 22: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Deuteronomy 23: He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. Deuteronomy 21: If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers… thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Leviticus 19: And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Leviticus 21: For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken… Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. So there’s a few tidbits of nice poetry floating in a sea of putrid vomit, and you pick out the nice bits and see that as demonstrating a God. I don’t see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/45 "2008-03-07T22:23:05Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] What about these verses? For me, they more than offset any of the beauty in the Bible: Deuteronomy 22: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Deuteronomy 23: He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. Deuteronomy 21: If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers… thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Leviticus 19: And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Leviticus 21: For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken… Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. So there’s a few tidbits of nice poetry floating in a sea of putrid vomit, and you pick out the nice bits and see that as demonstrating a God. I don’t see it that way. [/QUOTE] Isn’t it more about the rhythm than than the content? And whosoever Lieth carnally With a woman, That is a bondmaid, Betrothed to an husband, And not at all redeemed, Nor freedom given her; She shall be scourged; They shall not be put to death, Because she was not free. Poetry. Poetry, I tell you! Okay, I admit it. I’ve never found _any_ part of the bible or other scriptures I’ve read to be emotionally stirring. (And I don’t like choral music, either.) So it’s all the same to me: bad. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/46 "2008-03-07T22:43:37Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] So there’s a few tidbits of nice poetry floating in a sea of putrid vomit, and you pick out the nice bits and see that as demonstrating a God. I don’t see it that way. [/QUOTE] When you say “you” I suppose you mean me. As stated before, I’ve read about 3 pages of the bible but this isn’t strictly about Christianity, anyway. I don’t identify myself as a Christian, really, but of the religions it’s the one I’ve heard most about. Secondly, my limited understanding of the bible’s history is that it has been written, re-written, translated (sometimes incorrectly), and been subject to committee. The Catholic version is different than the Protestant one, yes? JMO but I think each person has to choose what they believe. For instance, the Bible says to take an eye for an eye, yet it also says to turn the other cheek. This advice is contradictory and I assume that means we as humans are supposed to decide which applies for the situation at hand. IF you’re trying to follow Christian beliefs, that is. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/47 "2008-03-10T03:04:04Z")
I see I’ve been upgraded to “member.” I’m not sure what that means, but I’ll celebrate it with a bump to a thread I started. The ultimate anti-climax in film of all time, for me, was probably in “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” (1978) when Matthew and Elizabeth think they can escape by ship. Hearing “Amazing Grace” on bagpipes at that moment…it’s just soooooo goddamn powerful, IMO. Transcendent. No, God doesn’t come to their rescue and maybe he doesn’t exist…but they (and I) were sure hoping he did. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/48 "2008-03-10T03:28:50Z")
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63] I see I’ve been upgraded to “member.” I’m not sure what that means, but I’ll celebrate it with a bump to a thread I started. [/QUOTE] It means either you or someone else has paid for you to have full access to the boards for a year - i’d guess someone else’s gift if you’re not sure what it means. Either way, Hi. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/49 "2008-03-10T03:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] It means either you or someone else has paid for you to have full access to the boards for a year - i’d guess someone else’s gift if you’re not sure what it means. Either way, Hi. 🙂 [/QUOTE] If I paid, I guess my lobotomy has finally “taken.” Thanks for the welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111/50 "2008-03-10T16:35:51Z")
some emotional experiences i’ve had at church when i was a little(er) kid blow any opiate/opioid, amphetamine or alkaloid i have put in my bloodstreams out of the water. really, the ecstasy of TRULY believing your daddy up in the sky is bigger and badder than any other daddy in town and loves you more than ANYTHING was unbelievable. sometimes i still lay in bed in the wee hours of the morning with the cold, cold, shakes thinking back to my youth group days and thinking “if i could just get one more hit of that…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/23rd-psalm-etc/440111.md?page=2)