# 24 and wicked women **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350 "2006-06-19T20:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/1 "2006-06-19T20:25:18Z")
Something has sort of struck me for awhile about 24. It seems to me that there’s a pretty substantial number of women on the show who are simply wicked. Pure evil. There’s Nina Meyers, who would be willing to throw a schoolbus off a cliff for personal gain. There’s Sherry Palmer, who operated on pure spite and devoted her life to bringing down the President, and indisputably great man. And there’s a lot of minor characters like that too - all of the show’s terrorists-for-hire that I can think of are women (Mandy, the French chick from Season Five), there was Aisha Tyler’s character in Season 4. I haven’t seen all five seasons; and admittedly, I may well be forgetting some extremely evil male characters. But it seems like there aren’t nearly as many. Even though the big bad in each season is usually a guy, he’s almost always acting on some desire to do good, even if his moral code is deranged. There’s been a couple sets of Islamist terrorists, the “Central Asian” separatists in Season 5, Saunders in Season 3 who operated out of a desire to end American imperialism. Even if they were terrorists, they were attempting to do something good. And I don’t think any of the women I listed above behaved out of any kind of desire to do what’s right. Am I forgetting characters? Is it a small sample size from only having watched three seasons of the show? Or was it filled with a surprisingly high number of evil, treacherous women? ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/2 "2006-06-19T22:04:56Z")
I’ve only seen Season 5 (although I’m catching up this summer, I hope) so I’m hardly an expert. But perhaps they’re trying to make Jack look like a good person by contrasting him with truly bad people. Of course, that doesn’t explain why the bad people need to be female, but perhaps it’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/3 "2006-06-19T22:52:50Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I haven’t seen all five seasons; and admittedly, I may well be forgetting some extremely evil male characters. But it seems like there aren’t nearly as many. Well, this season there was Rossler (the computer guy with the sex slave) and the weasel who destroyed the audio. Some you haven’t mentioned (or seen) would be Victor Drazen, Max, the Salazars, Behrooz’s daddy. There’s another bad bad woman, but you haven’t seen the season so I won’t spoil it. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/4 "2006-06-19T23:10:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, this season there was Rossler (the computer guy with the sex slave) Excellent example. > [@](#): > > and the weasel who destroyed the audio. Again. It’s hard to class him as anything but evil. > [@](#): > > Some you haven’t mentioned (or seen) would be Victor Drazen, Max, the Salazars, Nope. Don’t know who they are. (The Salazars were in the first half of Season 3, right? I didn’t start watching until the second half of that season and I’ve since watched Season 2.) Oh, wait, Max was the European dude at the end of Season 2, right? The trouble is we saw so little of him that we don’t even really know exactly what he did, much less his motives in doing it. > [@](#): > > Behrooz’s daddy. Again, though, he struck me like most of the terrorists: essentially motivated by what he thinks is good and right. It’s a twisted moral code that permits terrorism, but it’s not the same as the pure selfishness or spite that Sherry Palmer, for instance, operated under. > [@](#): > > There’s another bad bad woman, but you haven’t seen the season so I won’t spoil it. Hmm . . . ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/5 "2006-06-19T23:22:00Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Oh, wait, Max was the European dude at the end of Season 2, right? The trouble is we saw so little of him that we don’t even really know exactly what he did, much less his motives in doing it. Well, I guess I was thinking of him as someone who was never given any softening. He’s just a Bad Guy without any complexity. > [@](#): > > Again, though, he struck me like most of the terrorists: essentially motivated by what he thinks is good and right. It’s a twisted moral code that permits terrorism, but it’s not the same as the pure selfishness or spite that Sherry Palmer, for instance, operated under. Gosh, I don’t know. Considering the way he was willing to sacrifice Behrooz and Behrooz’s Mama, he just struck me as evil. (Behrooz’s Mama is in X-Men. You can hear her voice before seeing her face and when we first heard her voice my husband and I shouted “24”! We were at the drive-in so that isn’t as obnoxious as it sounds.) > [@](#): > > Hmm . . . Some people don’t like spoilers, so I wasn’t going to talk about anyone who wasn’t obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/6 "2006-06-19T23:39:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > (Behrooz’s Mama is in X-Men. You can hear her voice before seeing her face and when we first heard her voice my husband and I shouted “24”! We were at the drive-in so that isn’t as obnoxious as it sounds.) Thanks, I wasn’t sure that was her. They did a good job making her look unappealing…as TerrorMom she was pretty hot. I didn’t know where to look up “generic scientist woman” in X3 on the IMDB. Anyways, while the OP has a point, he has certainly been manipulating his line of demarcation between Evil Men and Evil Women. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/7 "2006-06-19T23:46:12Z")
Continuing the brief hijack: I never remember her last name, but her first is Shohreh, and that’s sufficient for imdb. In X-3 her name was apparently Dr. Kavita Rao. Just so you know. I think the OP definitely is right that the women aren’t as well-developed as characters on 24, so they end up more likely to be wholly good or wholly evil. TerrorMom is an excellent counterexample of a character that had tons of facets (and an incredible voice). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/8 "2006-06-20T01:39:45Z")
I think it’s also easier to find non-evil men, non-screwed up men on _24_. The only woman in the show’s early years who seemed to fit that category was Michelle. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/9 "2006-06-20T01:45:49Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Continuing the brief hijack: I never remember her last name, but her first is Shohreh, and that’s sufficient for imdb. She’s got a last name that I can never remember, so I just think of her as “Shohreh”. She looked almost unrecognizable with the bun in X-Men, but her voice is absolutely unmistakable. I’m polite enough that I didn’t squeal in glee and poke my companion, but I really wanted to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/10 "2006-06-20T01:56:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think it’s also easier to find non-evil men, non-screwed up men on _24_. The only woman in the show’s early years who seemed to fit that category was Michelle. How about Kate? I don’t remember her being evil or screwed up. Just kinda annoying. Some people might argue for Kim, but I hate her too much to defend her! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/11 "2006-06-20T02:11:32Z")
I don’t remember Kate - I’ve only seen bits of seasons 1 and 2. I never thought Kim counted; she was too clueless. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/12 "2006-06-20T03:57:09Z")
I noticed Behrooz’s (so that’s how you spell his name) mom in Xmen 3 also. She definitely was hot in 24. I don’t really consider her evil, but her husband really was. I thought the First Lady in season 5 was an interesting character. Not quite as much later on after she no longer seemed delusional, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/13 "2006-06-20T05:09:05Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > She’s got a last name that I can never remember, so I just think of her as “Shohreh”. She looked almost unrecognizable with the bun in X-Men, but her voice is absolutely unmistakable. I’m polite enough that I didn’t squeal in glee and poke my companion, but I really wanted to. 🙂 Shohreh Aghdashloo. Check her out in _Sand of House and Fog_, too. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/14 "2006-06-20T05:11:23Z")
How come they never actually explained what the deal was with the Bald Evil Cellphone Guy, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/15 "2006-06-20T13:27:04Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > > [@jsgodess](#): > > > > and the weasel who destroyed the audio > > Again. It’s hard to class him as anything but evil. IMNSHO, he wasn’t evil, just ambitious and stupid. He picked a side to win, and tried to get on the winning side. But he bet against Jack (who is as evil as they come), and you never bet against Jack. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/16 "2006-06-20T14:39:12Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > How come they never actually explained what the deal was with the Bald Evil Cellphone Guy, anyway? He’s very easy to explain. It’s called “Oops, another 24 loose end.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/17 "2006-06-20T14:59:49Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > you never bet against Jack. My money’s on the Chinese, until he sinks their container ship with a 9mm pistol. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/18 "2006-06-20T15:13:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My money’s on the Chinese, until he sinks their container ship with a 9mm pistol. > 🙂 But…he doesn’t have one right now. What’s he going to do? Do they have Chinese-issue Beretta knockoffs, and will they work as well? Or will any semi-automatic pistol do? This is the best cliffhanger yet! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/19 "2006-06-20T15:33:47Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > What’s he going to do? I 'spect he’ll throw his horribly injured body off the ship and be rescued by some Babes in a Boat. Maybe they are Greenpeace Babes who captured a whaler. Then Jack can capture the Chinese container ship with a harpoon. There is also the possiblity of some rogue rescue mission by Black Bauer, Kim and whoever remains alive after season five (got a ring to it) involving black helicopters, satellites, submarines and cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350/20 "2006-06-20T16:22:53Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > (Mandy, the French chick from Season Five) Mandy first appears in the first season, and has a cameo in the second. It’s from the first that she gets her nickname “Naked Mandy” 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-and-wicked-women/361350.md?page=2)