# 24 hours and no one has pitted the Youtube shooter? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848 "2018-04-05T03:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/121 "2018-04-05T22:58:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > […] the huge spike in crime that occurred starting in the immediate aftermath of the counterculture revolution […] it’s only recently begun to go down (probably as a result of get tough laws and increased gun ownership) […] “Only recently begun to go down”? The US violent crime rate [has been declining for more than a quarter-century](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/04/jeff-sessions/violent-crime-some-still-well-historical-highs/), after peaking in 1991. (How conservatives manage to fit into their mythology the fact that violent crime rates kept climbing overall during the Reagan/Bush/Moral Majority decade and only started to decline when Bill Clinton was in office is not really clear to me.) “Increased gun ownership” is also inaccurate, at least in the sense of incidence of gun ownership as opposed to numbers of guns owned. In fact, [over that same quarter-century US household gun ownership rates have been **dropping**.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.09b50a5d33e4) While the percentage of gun-owning US households mostly hovered at a little over 50% from the late 1970s to the early 1990s, it has since declined to somewhat over one-third of households. What has been increasing is not the percentage of households owning a gun but the number of guns per capita, apparently because many gun owners are expanding their arsenals even as the incidence of gun ownership declines. In fact, it appears that [about 3% of Americans own about half of all civilian firearms in the US](https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/). Since it doesn’t really make sense that the same gun owner is somehow deterring more crime by owning, say, eight guns than by owning two, your hypothesis that increased gun purchases are responsible for the decreasing violent crime rate doesn’t hold water. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > But those of us in the real world Citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/122 "2018-04-05T23:21:42Z")
> [@](#): > > {…} But those of us in the real world know that things don’t work like that and we continue to hold you responsible. > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > {…} Citation needed. I’m thinking that the subtext here, as with unemployment statistics, is the numbers only count if they agree with the preconceived conclusion. “Unemployment and crime stats are ONLY down because we elected our glorious leader TRUMP!!! We’ve always been at war with Eastasia!!!” CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/123 "2018-04-05T23:27:39Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > So it seems that she [purchased her weapon legally](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/04/05/youtube-shooter-legally-bought-handgun-reloaded-least-once-during-attack-police-say/490969002/). > > In a state with some of the most prohibitive firearm restrictions in the country. Pretty sure that’s a point in favor of “let’s get rid of all the guns” people. Not sure why you’re bringing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/124 "2018-04-05T23:37:27Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > […] turning the country into a poorly educated, drug addicted and crime-ridden cesspool with all the negatives we have today […] As pointed out above, the US today [is no more “crime-ridden” than it was back in the early 1950s](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/04/jeff-sessions/violent-crime-some-still-well-historical-highs/): > [@](#): > > “For 15 to 20 years both the violent and nonviolent crime rates as measured by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) have been dropping like a rock. It is now at the level of the early 1950s. It is very low,” said Alan Lizotte, a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at the University at Albany As for “poorly educated”, the US population currently stands at [the highest level of educational attainment since the start of data collection in 1940](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-51.html): > [@](#): > > “The percentage [of adults holding a bachelor’s degree] rose to 33.4 percent in 2016, a significant milestone since the Current Population Survey began collecting educational attainment in 1940,” said Kurt Bauman, Chief of the Education and Social Stratification Branch. “In 1940, only 4.6 percent had reached that level of education.” […] > > Of the U.S. population 25 years and older, 89.1 percent had completed high school (or equivalent) or more education in 2016. A decade earlier, in 2006, 85.5 percent had completed high school or more education. In 1950, by the way, [only a little more than one-third of American adults had completed high school, and by 1960 the figure was still less than 50%](https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/censusatlas/pdf/10_Education.pdf). Illegal drug use by American teens is actually [at an all time low](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-drug-use-drops-to-all-time-low/), and teen smoking and drinking rates are down too. Drug addiction rates are still comparatively high among adults, especially opiates, meth and heroin, but [per capita alcohol consumption rates](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810378/) have dropped back down from a 1980 high to about where they were in the 1950s. [Cigarette smoking rates](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/50-years-progress-halves-smoking-rate-can-we-reach-zero-n7621), of course, are now about half of what they were in the 1950s. So compared to the 1950s, the US today is actually much **less** poorly educated, about equally crime-ridden, and somewhat more drug-addicted, except for alcohol and tobacco. I don’t think that adds up to as much of a “cesspool” as you seem to believe. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/125 "2018-04-06T00:36:19Z")
Just wandered in to see what this thread is about, but this struck me as worth quoting: > [@Kimstu](#): > > As pointed out above, the US today [is no more “crime-ridden” than it was back in the early 1950s](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/04/jeff-sessions/violent-crime-some-still-well-historical-highs/): > > As for “poorly educated”, the US population currently stands at [the highest level of educational attainment since the start of data collection in 1940](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-51.html): > > In 1950, by the way, [only a little more than one-third of American adults had completed high school, and by 1960 the figure was still less than 50%](https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/censusatlas/pdf/10_Education.pdf). > > Illegal drug use by American teens is actually [at an all time low](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-drug-use-drops-to-all-time-low/), and teen smoking and drinking rates are down too. Drug addiction rates are still comparatively high among adults, especially opiates, meth and heroin, but [per capita alcohol consumption rates](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810378/) have dropped back down from a 1980 high to about where they were in the 1950s. [Cigarette smoking rates](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/50-years-progress-halves-smoking-rate-can-we-reach-zero-n7621), of course, are now about half of what they were in the 1950s. > So compared to the 1950s, the US today is actually much **less** poorly educated, about equally crime-ridden, and somewhat more drug-addicted, except for alcohol and tobacco. I don’t think that adds up to as much of a “cesspool” as you seem to believe. Exactly. Man, I don’t know how many times I’ve tried to make this exact point and here all I had to do was have you do it! This meme that things are so horrible today, that everything is spinning out of control and dogs and cats are living together is just really, really annoying. As for the OP…oh, why bother? My WAG as to why no one pitted the shooter is that this was a pretty minor event that was only blown up by the media and that it happened to YouTube. The only death was the shooter, and on that day a quick Google search shows a lot more things to pit in the US than that happened. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/126 "2018-04-06T01:13:57Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > So it seems that she [purchased her weapon legally](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/04/05/youtube-shooter-legally-bought-handgun-reloaded-least-once-during-attack-police-say/490969002/). > > In a state with some of the most prohibitive firearm restrictions in the country. She must be a proud member of the NRA, then. That’s nice for you. The blood isn’t only on your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/127 "2018-04-06T01:35:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The Gentle Reader will note that I usually leave the board about this time each day, as I have obligations elsewhere. One wouldn’t want to be thought left speechless by the silly, exaggerated and generally ridiculous statements made by posters such as, say, **wolfpup**. More to follow later tonight or tomorrow if I can be arsed, and I probably can as I have a problem with allowing bullshit to lie uncontested. Why do you think we give a shit when you turn off your computer for the night? You going to talk about your bowel movements too? I have a couple of challenges for you, Starving Artist. Don’t worry, I’m not going to trick you, make you look bad or embarrass you. I’m going to throw you a softball first. You know who Mickey Mouse is right? You know his face, his cartoons, his ears? Pretend his name is Mickey Mammoth, because he’s an elephant. He’s got 4 massive feet, a trunk, a couple of tusks, and big floppy ears. Can you do that? Know what we did here? We took how you perceive the world and made a slight change, and it didn’t cause your way of life to collapse. It’s just a hypothetical and you don’t have to prove any points. Now here’s a harder challenge. You can do it. I believe in you. Pretend you live in a world where liberals _aren’t_ trying to undermine society. Pretend liberals _aren’t_ trying to erode American values. Pretend liberal activists _aren’t_ trying to brainwash schoolchildren to reject conservatism. Pretend science is a _good_ thing. [okay, nobody say a word…just leave him alone like that…] ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/128 "2018-04-06T03:00:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Indeed, I don’t know why anybody does. **Starving Artist** is a sad old man on this topic, and I hope never to become him when I get older. (Waves cane around in the air, in the year 2042) 2006! That’s when this god damn country started going to hell! Right down the fucking tubes! God damn rock and roll music! Pot smoking hippies! That pinko Dubya! Naked ladies! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/129 "2018-04-06T03:02:06Z")
“_…and big floppy ears…_” why does everything have to be about Clothahump? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/130 "2018-04-06T03:36:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So I’ll retract that little bit of condemnation over how much liberal philosophies and practices and attitudes have contributed to the huge spike in crime that occurred starting in the immediate aftermath of the counterculture revolution and which none of you ever admit responsibility for, preferring instead to act like because it’s only recently begun to go down (probably as a result of get tough laws and increased gun ownership) all is hunky-dory. But those of us in the real world know that things don’t work like that and we continue to hold you responsible. “We would like to apologize for the way in which politicians are represented in this programme. It was never our intention to imply that politicians are weak-kneed, political time-servers who are more concerned with their personal vendettas and private power struggles than the problems of government, nor to suggest at any point that they sacrifice their credibility by denying free debate on vital matters in the mistaken impression that party unity comes before the well-being of the people they supposedly represent, nor to imply at any stage that they are squabbling little toadies without an ounce of concern for the vital social problems of today. Nor indeed do we intend that viewers should consider them as crabby ulcerous little self-seeking vermin with furry legs and an excessive addiction to alcohol and certain explicit sexual practices which some people might find offensive. We are sorry if this impression has come across.” – Monty Python ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/131 "2018-04-06T04:32:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In fact, it appears that [about 3% of Americans own about half of all civilian firearms in the US](https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/). If civilian includes security companies, the numbers for personal ownership are even lower. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/132 "2018-04-06T05:33:22Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > While definitely pitworthy, that wasn’t the point of this thread. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the fact that no one had done so more than a day after the event while someone would have been racing to start the thread if the shooter had been a white male. > > So far all I’ve seen in response is the expected personal attacks instead of any attempt to address the issue. > > But no ill will on my part as that’s all I expected. > > So by all means, carry on. Bull-fucking-shit. Like it’s been mentioned, no one has pitted the Austin bomber, a white fundamentalist Christian who initially targeted and killed minorities. We’re supposed to pit someone that didn’t kill anyone other than herself? The utter ego you must have to claim hypocrisy while ignoring murderers is wildly apparent. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/133 "2018-04-06T07:19:39Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > So it seems that she [purchased her weapon legally](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/04/05/youtube-shooter-legally-bought-handgun-reloaded-least-once-during-attack-police-say/490969002/). > > In a state with some of the most prohibitive firearm restrictions in the country. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Pretty sure that’s a point in favor of “let’s get rid of all the guns” people. Not sure why you’re bringing that up. Exactly. Why does this have to be so hard to comprehend? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/134 "2018-04-06T10:16:07Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Oh wait. She’s a vegan, Iranian, PETA, democrat, so doesn’t fit any liberal narrative other than using a gun. > > So to date, PETA has produced more mass shooters than the NRA. C’mon. If she was vegan, how could she even \*lift \*a gun? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/135 "2018-04-06T11:51:48Z")
I had no idea Sweden was so rapey! ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/136 "2018-04-06T12:18:44Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I had no idea Sweden was so rapey! Rape statistics are dodgy, at best. Only a fraction of rapes are reported, and as **SaneBill** pointed out back in post [#63](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20886708&postcount=63), what legally constitutes rape and the willingness of the rape victims to press charges vary wildly between countries. I’m pretty certain that the high numbers for Sweden is a statistical outlier caused by those effects. My point with those numbers was that despite the fact that people in civilized countries “lack the means to defend themselves”, there are no data indicating that they are killed or raped more often than people in the US. Quite on the contrary: the US tops the homicide statistics and is fairly close to the top in the rape statistics. And is at the top in gun ownership per capita, way above the others. So I guess having nearly unlimited access to “the means to defend themselves” doesn’t help much against being killed or raped. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/137 "2018-04-06T12:48:02Z")
While I admire the tenacity to try and get Starving Artist to think rationally, use evidence to support his hypothesis, and respond with facts rather than idiotic blather, I see no point. He’s terminal. It’s over. The horse is dead, the fat lady has sung, the curtain has come down. No amount of actual FBI crime stats, no amount of facts about gun ownership, no amount of well-reasoned arguments, will ever, EVER dissuade him from his false preconceptions or make him a legitimate, honest debater. You are more than welcome to continue to tilt at the Starving Artist windmill (and as a passive observer, I do get something out of the factual information many of you brave, but silly, souls have presented), but expecting him to change now after all this time, is a wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/138 "2018-04-06T13:21:40Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You are more than welcome to continue to tilt at the Starving Artist windmill (and as a passive observer, I do get something out of the factual information many of you brave, but silly, souls have presented), but expecting him to change now after all this time, is a wishful thinking. Your first point is the main reason for refuting SA’s bullshit. No rational person would ever hope to achieve your second point. And sometimes it’s hard to resist poking the crap with a stick… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/139 "2018-04-06T14:13:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … 1968 . That was the year the great national idiocy that had been brewing for a couple of years pretty much gelled into what it was to become and I’ve said so many times. I purposely haven’t answered your question because I couldn’t be arsed, given that you’re such a disagreeable shitbag generally and you posed your question in such a deliberately annoying manner. > > … the incredible amount of damage they’ve done to this country over the last fifty years… I hate to bother **Mr. Artist** who’s been over all this many times, but … _ **what in hell is he talking about?** _ Crime? Does it know that crime rose with the increasing persecution of the poor under Reagan? Under both Clinton and Obama, crime rates fell. If he’s talking about the liberal demands that public venues offer 17 different restrooms for 17 different genders, we’ll need a cite. IIRC it’s Neanderthals like **Mr. Artist** who are so focused on public restrooms. Please tell us what he’s talking about. Assuming he’s focused on crime, I wonder if he knows that Salt Lake City —a Mecca for dirty hippies? — leads [the crime stats for U.S. cities in its population class](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_(100,000%E2%80%93250,000)). #4 out of 211 for property crimes, #3 for larceny-theft, #10 for auto theft, and #20 out of 211 for most forcible rapes. Is that it? Is it all the hippies that have taken over the Mormon Church that have **Mr. Artist** so upset? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848/140 "2018-04-06T14:22:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Children who spanked, not beaten, learn to behave and grow into adults who behave. Virtually every kid my age got spanked Yanno, **Starvy** , someone who wanted _not_ to be thought of as a sicko perv would probably show a \*little \*less fascination with pounding little boys’ butts than you do. Just something I’m throwing out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-hours-and-no-one-has-pitted-the-youtube-shooter/811848.md?page=8)