# "24" Season 2, Episode 12 - 7:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255 "2003-02-11T01:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/61 "2003-02-12T17:17:48Z")
Well, lemme make clear that it’s not an actual thread rule, enforced by mods, its just appeasing us who are anal about spoilers. Don’t sweat it. What we ended up with is discussion of everything through the most recently broadcast hour is fair game (through 8:00 at this point), and anything that hasn’t occured yet on the show itself (as opposed to teasers or commercials) remains in spoiler boxes. And if you for some reason get to watch the show before its broadcast time like someone did a few weeks ago and you want to discuss/spoil it well before the airing, a new thread would be used. But again, these aren’t actual SDMB rules; I don’t want to be called a _24_ nazi. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/62 "2003-02-12T17:43:51Z")
Ali bit Jack’s hand hard while Jack was fighting to get the cyanide out of his mouth…Jack’s hand was bleeding. Now, I’ve heard human bites are very dangerous, and they need to be treated immediately in case of infection. I don’t remember seeing Jack’s hand even bandaged during the interrogation, but I could be mistaken. So, is Jack’s hand going to rot off? Or is this another case of Our Hero walking away from a fight with nary a scratch (like he did in the case of the plane crash, yanking out the piece of metal and not even suffering a limp?) ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/63 "2003-02-12T18:15:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Sherry at the “secret meeting.” Is it just me or did she look more like she was dressed to sell some ‘Rollex’ watches rather than confront the Prez’s asst.? With that hat she had on, I thought it looked like she was dressed to appear in some cheesy 70s sitcom. 😉 > [@](#): > > Slacker said: > I wondered if Jack changed his plan after speaking to the president. Maybe pretending to kill the kid was plan B. I don’t think Jack ever had any intention of actually killing Ali’s family. I think the fake-out **was** the plan from the beginning, and that’s why he ignored the President’s orders so blithely. _Jack’s a Badass, but he’s not cruel and he’s not evil._ That guy he killed at the end of Hour One was a convicted murderer and child molester who was one Death Row; he was going to die anyway. He needed him to go back undercover to get in with what’s-his-name, who blew up CTU. > [@](#): > > Exapno Mapcase said: > One more thing that nobody is mentioning. Women. Women are at the core of the various plots in 24. The question is, what actions will be taken against them? Don’t forget; last year Nina killed Jack’s _pregnant_ wife in cold blood. A lot of people (me included) never thought a pregnant character would be killed off in such a violent way. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/64 "2003-02-12T18:16:49Z")
Where to start… Sherry: First I thought she was just a bitch. After this episode, I’m reasonably conviced she is suffering from a mental disorder of some sort. The faked murder of Ali’s son had me almost convinced. I would have rejected it as an act, if we hadn’t seen Jack kill a prisoner earlier in the day. And personally cut said prisoner’s head off with a hacksaw. And carry it around in a duffle bag. And ivylass is right about the plane crash. I remember watching Jack pull the metal out of his leg and saying, “somebody doesn’t remember their first aid training.” But this time was Jack’s hand bleeding, or was that blood from Ali’s mouth? The cyanide capsule had to be attached somehow, and Jack didn’t look particularly gentle at the time. Kim: May be too stupid to live. She was stuck for an hour in a snare trap. One which only required opposable thumbs to release. Maybe next season will be a prequel season, taking place 15 years earlier, in which we’ll see that Kim was dropped on her head as a child after being kidnapped by a terrorist au pair… ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/65 "2003-02-12T18:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by c\_goat \* > \*\*Although I was right about the trap, the guy spent about 3 seconds looking at it and pulled the wire out to loosen it. Kim is an idiot that she couldn’t figure it out herself. \*\* I thought that he unlocked it. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/66 "2003-02-12T18:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > But this time was Jack’s hand bleeding, or was that blood from Ali’s mouth? The cyanide capsule had to be attached somehow, and Jack didn’t look particularly gentle at the time. I figured it was Ali’s blood from where Jack ripped his tooth out. Jack reached in his mouth and pulled out the tooth with the cyanide capsule. Jack was holding his mouth open so he couldn’t bite down on the capsule, and therefore (I assume) couldn’t bite Jack. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/67 "2003-02-12T18:42:21Z")
Jack put a baton in the guys mouth and crushed his teeth around the baton. Not since American History X have I been so disturbed by oral attacks. I think Jack would have killed the kid if the president had let him. It’s that grey area. 1 kid or a million people die, I’ll pick the kid every time and add it to my list of bones to pick with god in the afterlife. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/68 "2003-02-12T18:46:47Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\* > Jack’s a Badass, but he’s not cruel and he’s not evil. > That guy he killed at the end of Hour One was a convicted murderer and child molester who was one Death Row; he was going to die anyway. He needed him to go back undercover to get in with what’s-his-name, who blew up CTU._\* Slight nitpick: The guy had made a deal of some sort and was going to walk. I don’t recall the details. But I doubt that figured in Jack’s reasoning too much. Otherwise, I agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/69 "2003-02-12T19:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The guy had made a deal of some sort and was going to walk. I don’t recall the details. But I doubt that figured in Jack’s reasoning too much. Really? I thought that was quite intentional. Jack is more of a “right” and “wrong” guy rather than a “laws” and “rules” guy (he’s a follow orders guy first and foremost though - I don’t think he would disobey the Commander in Chief intentionally). This guy he shot in Ep. 1 was a convicted pedophile (evil in Jack’s book) who was going to walk. Killing him was especially justifiable because the legal system was going to fail. The first episode was so powerful because they illustrate this line between right and wrong. You saw the hatred in Jack’s face when he said the word pedophile. As I saw it, it was a big part of his decision making process. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/70 "2003-02-12T19:23:39Z")
**DJ** , Possibly. I said I didn’t think it counted “too much”, not that it wasn’t a factor at all. I figure Jack would have killed the guy whether or not he was going to jail. As you say, he was a pedophile, and an evil bastard, and his death would help stop the bomb. I don’t think Jack would have refrained from killing him even if he was facing a life sentence. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/71 "2003-02-12T19:34:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*I think Jack would have killed the kid if the president had let him. It’s that grey area. 1 kid or a million people die, I’ll pick the kid every time and add it to my list of bones to pick with god in the afterlife. \*\* No, I think the whole thing was a set-up from the get-go. That’s why Jack just ignored Palmer. You saw Palmer hang up and Jack kept talking to the dead phone, making Ali think Palmer was approving of what was going on. Jack knew it was wrong to kill a child, and that’s why he didn’t even go to Palmer for approval for what he was doing, because it was fake in the first place. He told the guy to “proceed as planned” and that’s when the guy kicked over the chair and “shot” the little kid. I don’t think he ever would have really killed the little kids. That’s just my take on it, of course. I can totally see Jack killing Nina at some point, though. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/72 "2003-02-12T19:37:40Z")
I can’t believe next week Jack and Sayed are going to team up to fight the alien invaders, who have made kim their ruling Godess. Well at least that’s what it looks like is going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/73 "2003-02-12T19:55:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gangster Octopus \* > \*\*I can’t believe next week Jack and Sayed are going to team up to fight the alien invaders, who have made kim their ruling Godess. Well at least that’s what it looks like is going to happen. \*\* Goddammit! Consider yourself Pitted! 😉 Fun fact du jour: George Mason is John Connor’s stepfather in Terminator 2. (Xander Berkeley) ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/74 "2003-02-12T20:03:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by interface2x \* > \*\*I thought that he unlocked it. \*\* Well **SuperNelson** seems to agree that it was a simple trap. I looked up snare trap in google and found [this](http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1048.html) which looks an awful lot like what Kim had around her leg. It didn’t appear that he used a key or anything, just somehow held the oneway lock open so he could back out the cable. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/75 "2003-02-12T20:05:19Z")
I kept thinking that Sayed reminded me of someone. Then last night my husband said “He’s just a better looking clone of his father.” That’s when the lightbulb went off. I tried to find the cast listing on the FOX site, but their site is to cute to be functional. IMDB was much easier. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/76 "2003-02-12T21:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \* > \*\*Fun fact du jour: George Mason is John Connor’s stepfather in Terminator 2. (Xander Berkeley) \*\* Fun fact du jour #2: Xander Berkeley (Mason) and Sarah Clarke (Nina) are married in real life. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/77 "2003-02-12T21:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gangster Octopus \* > \*\*I can’t believe next week Jack and Sayed are going to team up to fight the alien invaders, who have made kim their ruling Godess. Well at least that’s what it looks like is going to happen. \*\* But then Kim falls down and hits her head and has amnesia. ::flees:: ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/78 "2003-02-12T21:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*I kept thinking that Sayed reminded me of someone. Then last night my husband said “He’s just a better looking clone of his father.” > > That’s when the lightbulb went off. I tried to find the cast listing on the FOX site, but their site is to cute to be functional. IMDB was much easier. \*\* 😕 Huh? Who is he? ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/79 "2003-02-12T21:43:46Z")
General epsiode thoughts: Add me to the “Jack was going to kill the kid but couldn’t bring himself to disobey the CINC directly” crowd. Jack telling Ali, “I know what it’s like to lose someone you love right before your eyes and I despise you for making me do this,” was just too damn genuine. Even though it would have been evil, I was still a little disappointed in a tactical sense that Palmer backed down over Jack’s plan. I admired Jack, though, for keeping his loyalties in place (and, thereby, his good guy status) and improvising a backup plan. I did like how the security forces on the ground kicked the chair over BEHIND the family’s line of sight. A small but convincing touch. Cougars rarely attack humans, even when they’re prone. Likely it just wandered off. Interestingly, according to my old high school science teacher, that’s because predators with a highly defined sense of smell find the human odor particularly unpleasant in many cases. I’m sure Kim wouldn’t be smelling her freshest at this point. I, too, though Sherri looked like a bit player in The Jeffersons tonight. I’m thinking some credit like “Lionel’s girlfriend” or something like that for one episode in the credits. Jack let Kate see the feed for herself because he may well still need her and couldn’t have her filled with loathing for him, particularly when she’s in 900 different kinds of denial about Marie. Speaking of Marie, anyone else wish there would have been a few seconds footage of her in the foreman’s office last week? That wig looks gooooooood, and at least no one can gripe about misc. blonde number 3 anymore. Jack’s 30 second chat with the imam didn’t strike me as contrived at all. What ELSE would you expect the priest of an honorable religion to say, particularly when that religion is normally villified and stereotyped as being innundated by exactly the type of lunatic currently sitting in his church basement. I liked the imam’s discussion with Ali and his acceptance that there was no way to overcome his indoctrination with a few words’ discussion. Jack also got more points when he told the imam, “You can’t be part of what I have to do next.” Yes, human bites are particularly prone to infection, but it’s not like instant gangrene or anything. Also, tetanus shots take care of a lot of the infection risks. As we discussed earlier, I’m pretty sure Jack’s shots are up to date. I would really like to see that his leg is stiffening up a bit from the earlier injury, though. There’s a lot of believeable material in this show, and it galls me a bit that such an obvious detail has been overlooked. Lastly, it’s my understanding that Atomic Demolition Munitions such as we see here can be detonated either via timers or by remote control. I can’t imagine the plane would fly around for six or however many hours and that the bomb would be set with something like a one hour timer to make sure the plane had time to get into the correct position once the device was armed. ADMs are also notoriously stable, as they are planned to be carried to their detonation site by small crews of special warfare operatives (they are single-person transportable), placed, set and timed to, theoretically, allow the teams time to extract. As a result, I will be very disappointed if the “It went off” scene from Kim and Deliverance Boy happens because it gets hit by a bullet when CTU takes down the hangar. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255/80 "2003-02-12T21:47:49Z")
**ivylass** , Ali is played by Anthony Quinn’s son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-12-7-00-p-m-8-00-p-m-spoilers/154255.md?page=5)