# "24" Season 2, Episode 19 - 2:00 a.m. - 3:00 a.m. (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919 "2003-04-15T18:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/41 "2003-04-16T19:11:27Z")
Ahhh… so you put a little AMMONIA on the knife before you make the cuts… so THAT’s how it’s done! (makes mental note) seriously though, I’ve never heard of that. SOP for bad guys? Any torturers here who can comment? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/42 "2003-04-16T19:36:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*Ahhh… so you put a little AMMONIA on the knife before you make the cuts… so THAT’s how it’s done! > > (makes mental note) > > seriously though, I’ve never heard of that. SOP for bad guys? > > Any torturers here who can comment? \*\* Tell you what, **Doc** , why don’t you self-experiment and tell us how it goes. And be honest. At least Torture Guy didn’t take a sander to Jack’s nether regions like they did to the guy they caught with Kate. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![KinSaba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@KinSaba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinSaba)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/43 "2003-04-16T19:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course he’ll come back. Jack’s death is such a non-cliffhanger that it made me giggle. I was thinking it was a cool CSU trick too. LOL - I went to CSU, but I didn’t take the stop your pulse and fake your own death course! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/44 "2003-04-16T20:22:47Z")
Frankly, Palmer must be a LOUSY president. Think about it- first, he married the diabolical Sherry. Then he picked the scheming Vice President, he appointed everytone in the Cabinet, he picked the chief of staff, and EVERY DANG ONE OF THEM is a disloyal, backstabbing traitor! Is this guy a terrible judge of character, or what? If he’s stupid enough to appoint a VP, a COS and an entire cabinet that’s ready to turn on him at 15 minutes notice, he DESERVES to be ousted. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/45 "2003-04-16T20:54:23Z")
I don’t want to think about it. On the one side you have the Pres and the Joint Chiefs of Staff who sent the bombers out on the basis of one (that’s right, _one_) piece of data. On the other side you have the VP and the Cabinet and the CoS who want to keep the bombers going on the basis of one (that’s right, _one_) piece of data. So I guess here’s the big question: Should Jack have failed in his mission in Season 1? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/46 "2003-04-16T21:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Frankly, Palmer must be a LOUSY president. > > Think about it- first, he married the diabolical Sherry. Then he picked the scheming Vice President, he appointed everytone in the Cabinet, he picked the chief of staff, and EVERY DANG ONE OF THEM is a disloyal, backstabbing traitor! > > Is this guy a terrible judge of character, or what? If he’s stupid enough to appoint a VP, a COS and an entire cabinet that’s ready to turn on him at 15 minutes notice, he DESERVES to be ousted. \*\* I am thinking the same thing. This is the most clueless president since…well, better save that for another forum. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/47 "2003-04-16T22:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*I don’t want to think about it. > > On the one side you have the Pres and the Joint Chiefs of Staff who sent the bombers out on the basis of one (that’s right, _one_) piece of data. > > On the other side you have the VP and the Cabinet and the CoS who want to keep the bombers going on the basis of one (that’s right, _one_) piece of data. > > So I guess here’s the big question: Should Jack have failed in his mission in Season 1? 😃 \*\* I think the VP and the Cabinet and the JCoS want to keep the bombers going not because of one piece of data, but because that was their plan all along. This is a conspiracy at the highest level of government obviously. There were hints last year that Palmer and his people were being controlled by more powerful forces. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/48 "2003-04-16T22:40:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*IThis is a conspiracy at the highest level of government obviously. There were hints last year that Palmer and his people were being controlled by more powerful forces. \*\* What exactly happened to the mysterious business cartel? Did it turn out to be Dennis Hopper? My memory is fuzzy. ---
**Author:** ![Saxman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Saxman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saxman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/49 "2003-04-16T23:17:44Z")
What I found most annoying was the torturer’s taunt to Jack, “You wouldn’t want to make Kim an orphan, would you?” Hello, writers, way to build tension – not. We’ve already seen Jack more than willing to make Kim an orphan by flying a plane to detonate A NUCLEAR BOMB in order to save the world. Fun note – I live a few blocks from Vineland and Moorpark, and when Jack was “running north towards Magnolia”, that’s actually AWAY from the rendez-vous point – maybe he was still trying to buy that fool Yousef some more time… 🙂 Serious note: a local CA friend’s uncle was a Coptic (Christian) Egyptian shopkeeper killed shortly after 9/11 for being the wrong shade of brown, so I found the redneck characters quite plausible. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/50 "2003-04-16T23:37:21Z")
It would have been more effective for the bad guys to threaten to find Kim and kill her. Then again, Jack’s been through that before too. ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/51 "2003-04-17T01:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\*Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking, too. Of course Jack will live. \*\* I totally agree that Jack will live (after all it is Easter week and rising from the dead is in vogue), but. . . He was pretty seriously worked over in this week’s episode. Cut several times. Burned. Zapped with a Taser. Vomited his guts out. And now dead. Assume the clinic doc does revive him. There are 5 hours left in the series. How much use can a body that’s taken that much punishment be in these important 5 hours? You don’t just save the world from a sickbed. . . . (Just being snarky about the Easter reference. No spamming, please!) ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/52 "2003-04-17T04:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > from _El Elvis Rojo_ > I have a feeling Jack’s faking dead and is going to jab that needle up someone’s nose into their brain, then kick the crap out of everyone else while covering himself with both hands. Yeah – during the whole torture scene, I was hoping that he would go all Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon on the torturer… > [@](#): > > from _Dr Goo Fee_ > Ahhh… so you put a little AMMONIA on the knife before you make the cuts… so THAT’s how it’s done! Ammonia? I was thinking acid. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/53 "2003-04-17T12:16:21Z")
**annieclaus** , you’re forgetting that he was also in a plane crash earlier “today,” he had a huge piece of shrapnel in his leg that he pulled out, he’s been in several gun fights, and hasn’t he been beaten up at least once or twice? He’s really had a hell of a day. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/54 "2003-04-17T13:04:18Z")
But remember, he’s fresher than last year b/c he hadn’t already been up for a whole day as of the start of the 24 hours. He’s on a full night’s rest, he oughtta be able to handle a little abuse. ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/55 "2003-04-17T13:17:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\ ***annieclaus** , you’re forgetting that he was also in a plane crash earlier “today,” he had a huge piece of shrapnel in his leg that he pulled out, he’s been in several gun fights, and hasn’t he been beaten up at least once or twice? > He’s really had a hell of a day. \*\* Doh! How could I forget those items??? And I don’t think he’s had any lunch or dinner. If he had, he would have just tossed it up on the floor of the torture chamber. Where WAS that torture chamber any way? I had the feeling that it was the basement of the Urgent Care Center. . . which isn’t very wellsecured, then, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/56 "2003-04-17T14:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*That’s not how it works, wrt the 25th Amendment. They have to send written affirmation of their conclusion to the President Pro Tem of the Senate and the Speaker of the House. The President can then take power back by doing the same thing. If the majority of executives plus the VP contest the issue, it goes to Congress to be decided within 48 hours. > > While the declaration sent by the VP and execs does immediately take effect before the President can rebut, they still have to send it in writing to those two leaders and that’s not likely to happen at this time of night unless there’s collusion between those parties as well. \*\* Nitpick: if there is a contest, Congress has 48 hours to _assemble_ to decide the issue. The constitution does not require them to actually come to a decision until 21 days after transmission – and then you’ve got to get 2/3 majorities in both houses to boot the president out. I’m such a geek. I ran upstairs to grab my pocket copy of the constitution at the first commercial after this scene. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/57 "2003-04-17T14:12:57Z")
Sigh… I set the vcr this week and wound up taping the 9 o clock news instead of 24. For the first time in 2 years, I’ve missed an episode of 24 and must wait until Monday to watch it on FX. BUT… I had to tell everyone about TOYFARE magazine this month. Toyfare is a magazine about action figures and toys and is the most hilarious mag I read. Every month they do a six page comedy strip using old Mego Superhero figures. This month is a spoof of this season’s 24 starring Captain America as Jack and Bucky as Kim. I was reading it at work and was embarrassed how hard I was laughing. Just a couple of the funniest things… [spoiler]Cap calls Bucky to tell him there’s a bomb in Megoville and that Bucky must leave and not tell anyone about it. Next panel Cap’s cell phone rings as Bucky yells “omigodomigodomigod…Get outta town! There’s a bomb about to go off!” Cap kills Electro’s wife on tv. Turns out it was his EX-wife and Electro wants a copy of the tape. Bucky runs past a tiger in the woods and yells for him to leave town, there’s a bomb! The final panel has Bucky underwater, surrounded by sharks, foot caught in a bear trap, holding a bomb with a lit fuse, wondering how he caught syphillis.[/spoiler] Granted this is probably only funny to an uber-geek like me, but if you are interested, the new Toyfare should be out on the newsstands next week. Hmmm…I wonder if any of the 24 Club read Toyfare. If so, there are spoilers a plenty. Crap, I can’t read the rest of this thread…but I want to! ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/58 "2003-04-18T18:10:43Z")
One comment about the 20,000 casualties thing… we only have the word of some military guys that that is their most accurate projection. It’s very possible that they’re all in on the conspiracy, and have come up with an inflated figure, figuing that Palmer wouldn’t possibly be able to say no to it… ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/59 "2003-04-18T19:15:30Z")
Well, other people have gone over some of the wackiness, here’s a few of mine: So, when a team of highly trained assasins launches a suprise attack on you with serious hardware you’re able to fend them off, but a couple of drunks can take you out with a brick when you’re forewarned? So, you’re the super secret agent but you don’t know any of the old transmitter tricks? Why leave it in the open when you can put it down a drain, in a car trunk, in/on an animal, or something else? Come on Jack, watch some of the classics. There’s not a real cliffhanger in this ep; the question is whether Jack ‘died’ from special training and is about to open his eyes kick ass or whether they shock him back to life. Silly observation: Is there something weird about the props budget? That electro-shock-paddle gizmo is rivaling Jack for airtime. Password girl who died to bring CTU back online, 3 torture scenes, commando on table, and now Bring Jack Back - any more shocking scenes? ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919/60 "2003-04-19T21:55:24Z")
I agree with the theories going around about Kim Bauer’s being a stupidity sponge. The writers are required by some ancient Hollywood codex that they must inject _x_ amount of stupidity into any epsiode of a television series. Without Kim around to absorb it all, it spreads to the other subplots. Was I the only one who, after Yusef went on about “if it were your family at risk,” expected Kate to start going on a tirade about the stuff that’s happened with her family? “No you DIDN’T just say that. Let me tell you a thing or two about family.” If they’d gotten into an argument it would’ve made more sense that they could be so easily flummoxed by rednecks. I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m hoping Kate does a 180, even if it’s almost completely inconsistent with her character so far, and just gets up and goes to town on those guys with a gun and a brick. Especially if she goes into a berserker rage whilst doing it, screaming about what a bitch Marie is. Which reminds me – does each country on the planet have one Superhero who can do _anything_, like Jack and Yusef? Or is it just the US and the “Three Middle-Eastern Countries.” In any case, they should spend the year until the next 24 hours starting a League of Justice of some sort. Have all the episodes this season had the frequent “Graphic Violence Viewer Discretion” warnings that this one did? Because as gruesome as the TORCHAR scenes with Jack were, they’ve done worse… I had a hard time feeling much sympathy for Jack after seeing him “question” two terrorists, terrorists basically flaying a private detective, and the President of the United States ordering electro-shock TORCHAR on an old man while he watched the whole thing on RealVideo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-2-episode-19-2-00-a-m-3-00-a-m-spoilers/168919.md?page=4)