# 24: Season 4: Episode 13 (7:00pm - 8:00pm) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535 "2005-03-14T22:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/81 "2005-03-15T23:34:36Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I totally agree. Very poorly handled. _Anything_ would have been better than what she said. Whatever Driscoll promised while she was director should be binding. It’s not like Driscoll is dead; Michelle could have simply promised to contact Driscoll _after_ the crisis is over, and verify the terms of the deal with her. Would have satisfied everyone. Sarah wasn’t haggling for more money, just confirming what she had been promised. Michelle’s a bitch on wheels. They completely hosed that poor girl. Think she’ll join up with the terrorists now? I think you’ve missed the most important point. It wasn’t **what** Sarah said, it was **when** she choose to bring it up. The issue wasn’t whether or not she had a point, the issue her (lack of) judgement in bringing it up during the height of a national crisis. Michelle had been on the job for, what, half an hour? An EMP bomb had just been set off, blacking out a huge part of the city. Rioting was in progress. A CTU agent and a civilian in his care had information that was extremely important to the ongoing national crisis, and they were out of contact and likely in immediate danger of being killed. The entire rest of the CTU was focused on **saving people’s lives** and keeping a national crisis from getting worse. And at that point in time, what was most important to Sarah was not saving lives, not the national crisis, but rather making sure that she got a few more bucks a month? Even if she wasn’t haggling over the money but wanting to confirm what she’d been promised, what an incredibly self-centered person must she be to do that while lives are at stake? Michelle **did** tell her that she’d look into it; any reasonable person would take that to mean that she’d contact Driscoll after the crisis. But little miss “my humiliation at being wrongly tortured can be fixed by a raise and is more important than Jack’s life” Sarah couldn’t let it go at that and trust her boss, oh no, she had to press it. Michelle did exactly the right thing. Of all the far-fetched aspects of this episode (and there were many!), Michell’s handling of that situation isn’t even on the scale. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/82 "2005-03-15T23:38:39Z")
Ayuh, **John** – It was more of a nagging self-doubt on my part because your observations make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/83 "2005-03-15T23:40:46Z")
“Anything Ms. Driscoll promised will de done. Now please get back to work.” ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/84 "2005-03-15T23:52:57Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I totally agree. Very poorly handled. _Anything_ would have been better than what she said. Whatever Driscoll promised while she was director should be binding. It’s not like Driscoll is dead; Michelle could have simply promised to contact Driscoll _after_ the crisis is over, and verify the terms of the deal with her. Would have satisfied everyone. Sarah wasn’t haggling for more money, just confirming what she had been promised. Michelle’s a bitch on wheels. They completely hosed that poor girl. Think she’ll join up with the terrorists now? We just had this conversation. Did you notice Sarah’s attitude. Before Michelle called security her attitude was, [smug]You can’t fire me, I’m working on important stuff[/smug]. After the call, [disbelief]You can’t fire me, I’m working on important stuff[/disbelief] This happens in business. Bunch of people quit, or call in sick or some other emergency happens. One person who thinks they have management over a barrel, tries a power play for more money or they walk. You can’t let it slide. You definitely cant let it slide when lives are at stake. Actually this is something Maryanne would have tried. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/85 "2005-03-16T00:08:23Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I’m pretty sure this has been the standard MO, although I did hear at the start of this season that they had written the first 14 episodes or so already in advance, so the first half of the season was already well fleshed-out in terms of the storylines. If that’s true, we’re almost done with “the plan” and will soon be in the “making it up as we go” territory again. 😉 Oh god, if the rob-the-convenience-store moment and the Mclellan-Forester Affair are in the “All planned out” section, I’m not sure I want to see what’s in the “Fly by the seat of our pants” section. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/86 "2005-03-16T00:24:12Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Sarah’s lucky the security guys didn’t throw her back in the room when she threatened Michelle. That is, in fact, what they should have done. This is the one thing that Michelle did wrong when it came to the Sarah situation. She should have had Sarah detained immediately after Sarah uttered that threat. (I think that decision could have been reasonably justified, given the delicate nature of their work and their emergency situation.) ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/87 "2005-03-16T01:39:34Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > It looks like to bad guys are now planning to off the president and, frankly, I don’t much care. If it was Palmer I’d be worried. Eh – if it were Palmer now, I’d be cheering the baddies on. Palmer turned into a butthead last season. They should just take both him and his brother out in one blast… > [@kidchameleon](#): > > And he’s got a **heroine** habit. So you mean he has an obsession with the lady leads? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/88 "2005-03-16T01:44:23Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > Michelle did exactly the right thing. I agree. Sarah was expecting Michelle to immediately promise something that she had no knowledge of – all Michelle could reasonably do at that time (in the heat of crisis) was to promise to look into it. And it’s not like Driscoll was fired. Michelle is just taking over in the interim, during the crisis. Doesn’t Sarah realize that Driscoll can take care of it another day? When there aren’t terrorists trying to kill people? Tony was given an interim appointment, and he hasn’t spent all his time worrying about what pay grade he’s at. In fact, he seems to be volunteering his time at the moment. He recognizes the stakes – Sarah needs to take a cue from Tony. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/89 "2005-03-16T02:38:26Z")
I took Michelle’s “I’ll look into it” as a very insincere blow-off, and I’m sure Sarah did too. Clearly, Sarah’s timing and tone sucked, but I think she’s right – Michelle will be sorry. (Or at least she would be, if the show was called 25 or 46 or 127). My GOD, they managed to dillute a potentially action-packed episode (what with the giant gunfight and all) with a bunch of touchy-feely bullshit. Between the Afterschool Special Arab Brothers, Audrey and SecDef Heller, Audrey and Michelle, Audrey and Tony, Tony and Michelle, and Paul and Jack, I almost missed some of the episode because I had to go retch. (Okay, I’ll let Paul and Jack slide – Paul did take a bullet for Jack, after all). And yeah, note to McClennan-Forrester: tear gas is good for raids. FYI. (So are empty clips, apparently. I just assumed Jack meant “extra clips” when I heard “empty clips,” but apparently they make a good improptu bulletproof vest. Whoda thunk it??) Okay, off to watch THE SHIELD 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/90 "2005-03-16T02:53:36Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > dillute a potentially action-packed episode with a bunch of touchy-feely bullshit. Amen, brother. > [@quixotic78](#): > > And yeah, note to McClennan-Forrester: tear gas is good for raids. That would be illegal. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/91 "2005-03-16T03:24:24Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > I took Michelle’s “I’ll look into it” as a very insincere blow-off, and I’m sure Sarah did too. Clearly, Sarah’s timing and tone sucked, but I think she’s right – Michelle will be sorry. (Or at least she would be, if the show was called 25 or 46 or 127)… That’s my feeling, too. Yes, Sarah had bad timing and she went too far, (perhaps being tortured affects one’s judgement) however I think Michelle could have averted the whole situation with a better response. Her “I’ll look into it” wasn’t very sincere at all, she all but rolled her eyes and sighed at her. She could have said that she would speak with Driscoll as soon as possible to confirm the details of their agreement, then made some ego-boosting statement such as “we really need your focus and expertise on the situation at hand.” On a totally different note. The actress with the complicated name, I think she’s Iranian, that plays Mama Terrorist. Is her voice sexy or what? It’s like a mixture of Marlena Dietrich and Katherine Turner. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/92 "2005-03-16T04:41:12Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > I took Michelle’s “I’ll look into it” as a very insincere blow-off, and I’m sure Sarah did too. Maybe, maybe not. I, for one, think it would have been premature to conclude that she was being insincere. But let’s suppose that she was. So what? There was a national crisis going on, and time was running out. I think Michelle could be excused for being less than attentive to Sarah’s desires at the time. Sarah could have adopted a “wait and see” attitude… but did she? No, she chose that moment to play hardball, gambling that Michelle needed her services during this crunch time. People who play hardball in that manner cannot be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/93 "2005-03-16T04:49:58Z")
Boy is Jack gonna be pissed when they get that printout back to CTU and Edgar reveals it to be just a UUencoded JPG “celebrity fake” image of Britney Spears giving a blowjob… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/94 "2005-03-16T09:41:40Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > I think you’ve missed the most important point. It wasn’t **what** Sarah said, it was **when** she choose to bring it up. The issue wasn’t whether or not she had a point, the issue her (lack of) judgement in bringing it up during the height of a national crisis. Michelle had been on the job for, what, half an hour? An EMP bomb had just been set off, blacking out a huge part of the city. Rioting was in progress. A CTU agent and a civilian in his care had information that was extremely important to the ongoing national crisis, and they were out of contact and likely in immediate danger of being killed. The entire rest of the CTU was focused on **saving people’s lives** and keeping a national crisis from getting worse. I think _you_ missed the most important point. Sarah was a loyal, hard-working employee until she was treated like a criminal by the very people she had been loyal to. She’s supposed to just _forget_ that the people she gave her loyalty to _brutalized_ her, and did so not even being sure that she was guilty? She was betrayed, and I didn’t think it unreasonable of her to demand some compensation for the way she was treated. I mean, that’s bullshit: “We’re gonna torture you any time we feel like it, on a whim, but you better act professional right afterwards or you’re history, 'cuz some important stuff is happening today.” > [@](#): > > And at that point in time, what was most important to Sarah was not saving lives, not the national crisis, but rather making sure that she got a few more bucks a month? Even if she wasn’t haggling over the money but wanting to confirm what she’d been promised, what an incredibly self-centered person must she be to do that while lives are at stake? I don’t blame her a bit. What did she get for _not_ being self-centered and doing her best? She got a little torture session and then not so much as an, “oops, sorry about that.” > [@](#): > > Michelle **did** tell her that she’d look into it; any reasonable person would take that to mean that she’d contact Driscoll after the crisis. Nah. I agree with the other posts - there was definitely a blow-off tone to her response. > [@](#): > > But little miss “my humiliation at being wrongly tortured can be fixed by a raise and is more important than Jack’s life” Sarah couldn’t let it go at that and trust her boss, oh no, she had to press it. Hmmm…and what happened _last_ time Sarah “trusted her boss”? > [@](#): > > Michelle did exactly the right thing. > > Of all the far-fetched aspects of this episode (and there were many!), Michell’s handling of that situation isn’t even on the scale. It wasn’t far-fetched, just mean. I can’t believe I’m arguing about a fictional t.v. show. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/95 "2005-03-16T09:45:25Z")
I guess it kind of hits home for me too, because I’ve been in situations where I’ve been promised something, then all of a sudden that person gets replaced, and the offer just magically dries up. God, that sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/96 "2005-03-16T09:54:05Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I think _you_ missed the most important point. Sarah was a loyal, hard-working employee until she was treated like a criminal by the very people she had been loyal to. She’s supposed to just _forget_ that the people she gave her loyalty to _brutalized_ her, and did so not even being sure that she was guilty? That’s _24_ for you, I suppose. Everything’s about loyalty. Two hours ago Jack was electrocuting Paul’s nipples, now Paul just took a bullet for Jack. At times it borders on creepy. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/97 "2005-03-16T11:43:53Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I think _you_ missed the most important point. Sarah was a loyal, hard-working employee until she was treated like a criminal by the very people she had been loyal to. She’s supposed to just _forget_ that the people she gave her loyalty to _brutalized_ her, and did so not even being sure that she was guilty? Nobody says that she’s supposed to forget all about it. However, a time of national crisis is STILL not the right time to be harping about paychecks. And if one uses that crisis as a bargaining chip for personal perks, then that person’s loyalty is severely in question. Moreover, how do we know that she was indeed “a loyal, hard-working employee”? We simply don’t have enough information to know that for sure. Michelle Dessler probably didn’t as well. ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/98 "2005-03-16T13:31:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s _24_ for you, I suppose. Everything’s about loyalty. Two hours ago Jack was electrocuting Paul’s nipples, now Paul just took a bullet for Jack. At times it borders on creepy. Yeah, and how’s Audrey going to feel about Jack NOW. (Actually, I think Paul was the actual target. Assuming he was a Bad Guy, in with the arms manufacturer guys, he was a liability to them. Get rid of him and that’s one more leak that’s plugged up for them to continue their nasty ways. And the guy who shot him WAS one of the arms guys, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/99 "2005-03-16T14:02:47Z")
Naturally, the episode where Sarah was tortured was the only one I’ve missed so far. How did she go from zero to tortured in under an hour? I assume Maryann had something to do with it…but what? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/100 "2005-03-16T14:08:37Z")
CTU managers realize SOMEBODY on staff is a Mole. Maryann (the True Mole) plays a computer trick on Sarah that implicates her as The Mole (which she is NOT!) Wahla! Sarah is discovered and tortured so she will tell Mole stuff. . . which, of course, she does not know. Got it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535.md?page=6)