# 24: Season 4: Episode 13 (7:00pm - 8:00pm) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535 "2005-03-14T22:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/101 "2005-03-16T14:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=annieclaus] Yeah, and how’s Audrey going to feel about Jack NOW. QUOTE] I think the writers have made it pretty clear that Jack and Audrey are on their way to Splitsville, USA. Boy, how would you like to have Jack’s luck with relationships. I thought for sure he was going to have something going with old what’s her name…the blonde whose sister was a terrorist. Whatever happened to her? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/102 "2005-03-16T15:06:39Z")
> [@RancidYakButterTeaPartyBoy](#): > > , how would you like to have Jack’s luck with relationships. > > I thought for sure he was going to have something going with old what’s her name…the blonde whose sister was a terrorist. > > Whatever happened to her? Oh yeah. Wasn’t her name Kate? And in my opinion, the actress who played her was far, far worse than the actress who plays Driscoll. To use a quote from the great Dorothy Parker, “she ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/103 "2005-03-16T15:56:05Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I guess it kind of hits home for me too, because I’ve been in situations where I’ve been promised something, then all of a sudden that person gets replaced, and the offer just magically dries up. God, that sucks. Elaine Driscoll might just have been paying Sarah lip service to shut her up, too. Michelle’s been in the place less than an hour. She sped-read through the file, doesn’t have nearly all the details, and Sarah was the bitch-on-wheels in that situation. Sarah mistimed and misplayed her move. And for threatening Michelle on the way out the door, she should be in containment. I did get a laugh out of her saying she’d go to Sec. Heller. Sarah: Mr. Secretary, I was wrongly tortured because Maryann set me up. It was 30\* minutes of pure hell. Heller: I ordered my son tortured for hours because he simply wouldn’t talk. Kwitcherbitchin’. Get out of my sight. Sarah: :eek: - Might have been 90. Not sure if it was wrapped in the next episode or one episode later ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/104 "2005-03-16T16:18:38Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I can’t believe I’m arguing about a fictional t.v. show. 😉 If we weren’t, would this _really_ be the SDMB? An aside: I was watching _Law & Order_ on TNT last night (9 PST, I think) and [CLOWdia](http://imdb.com/name/nm1089685/) was the defendant. She actually looked kinda cute, too. Another aside: The “guest cast” page ([http://imdb.com/title/tt0285331/guests](http://imdb.com/title/tt0285331/guests)) at IMDb is chock full of spoilers, as it has cast lists for episodes not yet aired. _(grumble grumble…)_ ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/105 "2005-03-16T16:53:12Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Oh yeah. Wasn’t her name Kate? And in my opinion, the actress who played her was far, far worse than the actress who plays Driscoll. To use a quote from the great Dorothy Parker, “she ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B.” That is a bold statement mister. I don’t know if she was as bad as Driscoll, but she was bad. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they will both come back. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/106 "2005-03-16T16:56:55Z")
> [@annieclaus](#): > > And the guy who shot him WAS one of the arms guys, right?) It was the chief of security dude from McClennan Forster. The one who came in to confront Paul about the printout in the previous ep. ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/107 "2005-03-16T17:07:54Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > An aside: I was watching _Law & Order_ on TNT last night (9 PST, I think) and [CLOWdia](http://imdb.com/name/nm1089685/) was the defendant. She actually looked kinda cute, too. > > i] Mmmm. Cloudia. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/108 "2005-03-16T19:23:16Z")
Hey, on a separate-but-related note, has anyone else noticed that this season in general is a torture-fest? I mean, _24_ has never been lacking in that department, but this season they seem to be putting a torture scene in almost every hour. Looking over Fox’s synopses, I find: 7-8am - Bad guy, by Jack 9-10am - Richard Heller, by CTU; and Andrew, by bad guys 12-1pm - Richard Heller, by CTU again 2-3pm - Sarah, by CTU 3-4pm - Mama terrorist, by CTU agent (ok, this one’s minor) 5-6pm - Paul, by Jack; and Mama terrorist by Tony (again, minor) 7-8pm - Paul, by the MF goons That’s at least one torture scene in over half the episodes. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/109 "2005-03-16T19:27:54Z")
Curtis was supposed to have been tortured as well, before ‘passing out’. I don’t remember if we were shown any of it happening though ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/110 "2005-03-17T02:12:04Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > That’s at least one torture scene in over half the episodes. Maybe we should start up a Torture Pool – try to guess who will get tortured next, and in which hour… ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/111 "2005-03-17T02:21:12Z")
I’m taking Marwan in hour 19. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/112 "2005-03-17T02:49:40Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > Hey, on a separate-but-related note, has anyone else noticed that this season in general is a torture-fest? I mean, _24_ has never been lacking in that department, but this season they seem to be putting a torture scene in almost every hour. Looking over Fox’s synopses, I find: > > 7-8am - Bad guy, by Jack > 9-10am - Richard Heller, by CTU; and Andrew, by bad guys > 12-1pm - Richard Heller, by CTU again > 2-3pm - Sarah, by CTU > 3-4pm - Mama terrorist, by CTU agent (ok, this one’s minor) > 5-6pm - Paul, by Jack; and Mama terrorist by Tony (again, minor) > 7-8pm - Paul, by the MF goons > > That’s at least one torture scene in over half the episodes. Hmmm. 1:00 for lunch, 4:00 for Happy Hour, and 6:00 for dinner? Now we know the torture guys’ social calendars… ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/113 "2005-03-17T05:31:05Z")
How about the discrepancy in degree of torture? The more innocent you are the worse the torture; Sarah, SecDefSon, Paul. The people you want to see tortured get “Talk or we’ll take back the immunity deal”. Whats up with that? ---
**Author:** ![aenplusone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@aenplusone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenplusone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/114 "2005-03-17T06:09:37Z")
Funny article about 24 on bbspot. Check it out [http://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/03/24\_hamburger.html](http://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/03/24_hamburger.html) ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/115 "2005-03-17T09:11:31Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > However, a time of national crisis is STILL not the right time to be harping about paychecks. And if one uses that crisis as a bargaining chip for personal perks, then that person’s loyalty is severely in question. I already said, she _wasn’t_ using it as a bargaining chip, she was merely insisting that the promise _already made to her_ be honored. She was not asking for more money; she was asking for precisely the amount of money that her employer had agreed to pay her. That is not “bargaining”. It’s unreasonable to fault her for not being a team player, while not faulting her employer for failing even worse in that regard. If it was the wrong time to bring it up, then Queen-Bitch should have made a _sincere_ promise to address the issue at a later time, rather than the contempuous, dismissive response she gave. > [@](#): > > Moreover, how do we know that she was indeed “a loyal, hard-working employee”? 'Cuz I watched the show. She wasn’t as smart as nerd-boy, but she was doing her job. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/116 "2005-03-17T09:15:18Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I already said, she _wasn’t_ using it as a bargaining chip, she was merely insisting that the promise _already made to her_ be honored. She was not asking for more money; she was asking for precisely the amount of money that her employer had agreed to pay her. That is not “bargaining”. I’ve got to disagree with you there. What Sarah had with Driscoll was an under the table special deal made just for her, and she knew it. And she did use the crisis- she threatened to walk off the job when she knew they needed her. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/117 "2005-03-17T09:26:37Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Elaine Driscoll might just have been paying Sarah lip service to shut her up, too. Michelle’s been in the place less than an hour. She sped-read through the file, They never said she speed-read the file. If she didn’t have the details, she should have said so. > [@](#): > > and Sarah was the bitch-on-wheels in that situation. Nah. After the way she was treated, she didn’t owe them _shit_. > [@](#): > > Sarah mistimed and misplayed her move. That much is obvious. Doesn’t exonerate Michelle, though. > [@](#): > > And for threatening Michelle on the way out the door, she should be in containment. She didn’t threaten her. IIRC she said, “You’ll regret this” or something. Probably meant she intends to bring the matter to Secretary Heller. I wasn’t aware that bringing an employment issue to your boss’ superiors was a jailable offense. I think seeing all the torture has made you guys unsympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/118 "2005-03-17T09:33:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve got to disagree with you there. What Sarah had with Driscoll was an under the table special deal made just for her, and she knew it. IIRC, Driscoll said “Agreed.” At that MOMENT, it was a legally-binding agreement between employer and employee. At that moment, Sarah WAS at the higher pay-grade. To put her back at the previous pay-grade, Michelle would have had to _demote_ her. And Sarah was rightfully afraid that that _legally-binding_ agreement would not get acknowledged in the confusion of changing directors. > [@](#): > > And she did use the crisis- she threatened to walk off the job when she knew they needed her. Read my post again. I never said she didn’t try to use the crisis. I said she wasn’t _bargaining_. You understand the difference, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/119 "2005-03-17T10:04:07Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > IIRC, Driscoll said “Agreed.” At that MOMENT, it was a legally-binding agreement between employer and employee. Non-verbal contracts aren’t worth the paper blah blah blah. Thing is, Sarah asked for special treatment; standard treatment apparently being a letter explaining her arrest, and resuming the job at regular pay. Driscoll went along with it, either to avoid trouble for torturing the wrong person or to keep Sarah happy at a time she needed everybody working. > [@](#): > > To put her back at the previous pay-grade, Michelle would have had to _demote_ her. And Sarah was rightfully afraid that that _legally-binding_ agreement would not get acknowledged in the confusion of changing directors. None of which explains why Michelle’s answer that she’d look into it wasn’t good enough for Sarah. It wasn’t a question of confusion. It’s that she wanted privileges and money she would not have normally been entitled to and was afraid Michelle was not going to honor an under-the-table deal Sarah made with Driscoll. A deal Michelle didn’t know anything about, whose existence she had only heard about just then, from Sarah, who was the one who stood to get paid. For that reason alone, “I’ll look into it” should’ve been enough. If she was really just concerned there might be confusion about a totally above-board arrangement, she could have waited because this was not exactly the best time. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535/120 "2005-03-17T12:39:37Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > 'Cuz I watched the show. She wasn’t as smart as nerd-boy, but she was doing her job. What we saw of her work wasn’t enough to establish that she was a LOYAL employee. It could _arguably_ indicate that she was hard-working, but even that’s a stretch. She basically did her job, but she didn’t go the extra mile the way Edgar or Chloe did. So I still maintain that we didn’t see enough to establish her as a “loyal, hard-working employee.” Any attempt to paint her as such is wishful thinking at best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-4-episode-13-7-00pm-8-00pm/294535.md?page=7)