# 24: Season 7: Episodes 3-4 (10:00am - 12:00noon) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004 "2009-01-12T23:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/41 "2009-01-13T17:40:15Z")
12 p.m. is accurate. “12 noon” is redundant, not that there’s anything wrong with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/42 "2009-01-13T17:57:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > 12 p.m. is accurate. “12 noon” is redundant, not that there’s anything wrong with it. 12:00 p.m. means “post meridiem.” Post meridiem means “after the noon hour.” Twelve hours post meridiem is midnight. 12:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. (ante meridiem) mean the same thing. It is probably best to avoid using either one since there is so much confusion about them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/43 "2009-01-13T18:06:49Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > 12:00 p.m. means “post meridiem.” Post meridiem means “after the noon hour.” Twelve hours post meridiem is midnight. Nevertheless, 12 p.m. meant “noon” when I learned how to read a clock 20 years ago, and I’m guessing it wasn’t just invented that day. I agree with you it’s not accurate terminology, but it’s popular usage, so they didn’t make a mistake, even if the National Maritime Museum apparently disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/44 "2009-01-13T18:12:28Z")
I thought this episode, while still good fun, was a bit of a letdown from the first two hours. First of all, fun as it is to see Bill and Chloe back, suddenly everything feels a bit familiar. Most importantly, though, is the idea that Emerson would trust Jack. First of all, all the logic just makes no sense… sure Jack helped Tony escape, but Jack also helped them catch Tony in the first place! (The FBI guys should also realize this… if Jack was “playing” Renee that whole time and was on Tony’s side, his actions make no sense.) Second of all, he’s JACK FRICKIN BAUER. Third of all, why trust ANYONE in that situation? I’m hoping that Emerson either (a) doesn’t trust Jack and is playing him, or (b) is actually a good guy working for the British equivalent of super-tiny-secret-CTU or what have you. Oh, and as for where the money came from to fund CTU2.0, it might just be money Tony has saved up while working as a (presumably well-compensated) criminal for the past 4 years. Where is Chloe’s baby, btw? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/45 "2009-01-13T18:21:35Z")
I admit- I’m in. Although, normally nobody starts a season off like 24. These two (4?) were both good episodes- but by no means AWESOME! - Explanation for Tony being alive- Barely passable… but enough that I did not just turn off the TV in complete disgust. - Chloe… yay! - I really want to see Jack tell the senate about how he hacksawed off a guys head once. But at least he was dead first, so it probably wasn’t torture. - I caught on to Tony being not bad in the first two hours and was kind of surprised to see that I was corect. - I’m really surprised that between Tony and Bill- they don’t have a single trustworthy in-government CIA guy that they can run operations with to at least be semi-legit. Even if they pull this off- aren’t they all going to go to jail for a very long time? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/46 "2009-01-13T18:27:09Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Where is Chloe’s baby, btw? She compresses it into a ZIP file while she is at work. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/47 "2009-01-13T18:42:24Z")
What’s the difference between a choke that kills and one that merely knocks you unconscious? Is it just duration of application or actually a different hold? Not that I wanted Jack Roowr to die, she’s lovely and willing to get rough. Rowr. ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/48 "2009-01-13T18:47:16Z")
> [@The\_Tof](#): > > - I really want to see Jack tell the senate about how he hacksawed off a guys head once. But at least he was dead first, so it probably wasn’t torture. Hah this made me LOL for real. That would be really funny. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/49 "2009-01-13T18:51:34Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Except Jack. And Bill. And Chloe. And Tony. Damnit! ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/50 "2009-01-13T18:53:42Z")
> [@Windwalker](#): > > What’s the difference between a choke that kills and one that merely knocks you unconscious? Is it just duration of application or actually a different hold? Not that I wanted Jack Roowr to die, she’s lovely and willing to get rough. Rowr. Time basically. He put her in a “sleeper hold” by cutting of the blood flow to her head long enough for her to lose consciousness. If he had kept it up long enough though she would have died. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/51 "2009-01-13T18:54:28Z")
It doesn’t make sense that the FBI characters wouldn’t ask, “Hey wait a minute. Why would he help us capture Almeda only to risk his life breaking him out of FBI headquarters?” Or that chief bad guy wouldn’t ask the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/52 "2009-01-13T18:57:35Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > 12:00 p.m. means “post meridiem.” Post meridiem means “after the noon hour.” Twelve hours post meridiem is midnight. 12:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. (ante meridiem) mean the same thing. It is probably best to avoid using either one since there is so much confusion about them. Yes, and “atom” means “indivisible” and yet atoms are split all the time. Damnit, how can scientists be allowed to be so inaccurate? 12pm has been a synonym for the noon hour for a very, very long time, and will continue to be such, irregardless [sic] of what any strict interpretation of the meaning of “pm” is. ---
**Author:** ![Greywolf73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@Greywolf73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greywolf73)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/53 "2009-01-13T21:57:17Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > It doesn’t make sense that the FBI characters wouldn’t ask, “Hey wait a minute. Why would he help us capture Almeda only to risk his life breaking him out of FBI headquarters?” > > Or that chief bad guy wouldn’t ask the same thing. I was wondering the same thing for a while there. And then I remembered I was watching 24. 😃 Best exchange of the night: Jack: OMG, sorry about that whole trying to break your neck thing. Tony: LOL You almost did. No big deal. We’re still BFFs! _Pinky shake_ Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/54 "2009-01-13T22:09:59Z")
> [@Greywolf73](#): > > Tony: LOL You almost did. No big deal. We’re still BFFs, just like you and Curtis! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/55 "2009-01-13T22:15:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How is it that every baddie has heard of Jack Bauer and his antics, but none of them know that he’s faked being evil before and that he never is? It’s like knowing your boyfriend is an asshole, but thinking that things will be different this time. Heh. Asked and answered in the same post. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/56 "2009-01-14T00:40:21Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > It doesn’t make sense that the FBI characters wouldn’t ask, “Hey wait a minute. Why would he help us capture Almeda only to risk his life breaking him out of FBI headquarters?” > > Or that chief bad guy wouldn’t ask the same thing. I think the story Jack and Tony are trying to sell is, Jack helped the FBI catch Tony (maybe with the implication that this wasn’t really out of patriotism or duty, just Jack trying to get himself out of the fix he’s in), but then Tony got to Jack and persuaded him that throwing in with the Evil Conspiracy will get Jack a better deal than the Hot FBI Chick/Justice Dept./U.S. Senate will. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/57 "2009-01-14T01:59:13Z")
According to the FBI Computer Girl, Chloe was able to get into the security cams by pinging them 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/58 "2009-01-14T02:06:41Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > According to the FBI Computer Girl, Chloe was able to get into the security cams by pinging them 😃 That’s interesting. We have some at work. PCs running Win XP controlling up to eight cameras. The Boss wanted to see them from home. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I determined that there is a “Ping Function” that must be turned on in order to ping the damn things and see them over the web. Some FBI higher up must want to see who is coming to work on time while he drinks his morning coffee in his bath robe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/59 "2009-01-14T06:01:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Two good episodes here with the makings of a good plot- I like the idea of a good chunk of this government being corrupt. It’s a natural progression for the show. > > Unlike some of the posters in the first thread, I thought the debate on torture was going nowhere; _24_ is just not equipped to handle that debate. The creators of the show clearly believe in torturing prisoners when necessary, same as they seem to really believe small dictatorships are really a danger to the U.S. (Sounds like a retroactive justification of something, I just can’t think of what. :rolleyes:) The flaw in 24’s logic is that “when necessary” as defined by the show never happens in real life. If it did there is a good argument to be made that torture would be acceptable in those situations. What would be cool is if they have Jack hold off on torturing someone because there is time available to use other techniques that get better results. Or have at least someone lie to Jack. Then you would get a more informative debate. Also, having the two most wanted men in America on your team is not a good strategy for a crime team. As a general rule, you might not want the U.S. Army chasing you. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004/60 "2009-01-14T08:50:58Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > I am also totally on board with this. Especially if they kill Ms. Garofalo sooner rather than later. No way! I loved that little Chloe vs. Janis hacker showdown, even if it was completely ridiculous. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-7-episodes-3-4-10-00am-12-00noon/481004.md?page=4)