# $250,000/year income? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739 "2011-08-06T15:49:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/101 "2011-08-09T14:02:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The thing is though that Warren Buffet has money invested in ways that the government has legislated as tax loopholes. The government does this in order to stimulate investment in certain areas, which in turn supports the economy and provides jobs. If Buffet simply had a billion-dollar-per-year salary and that was the end of it, he would be paying the top rate. > > It’s really disingenuous of Buffet to compare his tax situation with that of his secretary and suggest that the rates he pays are unfair. I suspect duplicity on Buffet’s part, since he’s obviously taking full advantage of whatever tax breaks he’s entitled to while simultaneously bemoaning the unfairness of it all. IMO, this is allows him to continue making money hand over fist while avoiding the ire of the masses by appearing to be on their side. As has been suggested upthread, **if he feels the system is so unfair and that he isn’t paying his rightful share, then why doesn’t he just cut the government a check for whatever additional amount he believes he should be paying?** Indeed. Because he’s telling half truths. As you said, if he truly believed that the tax rates are unfairly low for his income, he could easily pay more (as could all the naysayers on this thread). But he won’t, and they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/102 "2011-08-09T14:29:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This type of demagoguery is one of the things I most despise about the tactics of the left. There’s a vast difference between being stupid and lazy on the one hand, and choosing to work at a 9-to-5 job on the other. I said that many people (most, in fact) simply do not want to take on the challenges involved in trying to become business owners or high-income earners, thus they choose instead to become employees who work regular hours and leave the job behind when they leave work at the end of their work day. It is both dishonest and deceitful for you to portray what I said in this way. > > As far as CEO’s or business owners or whoever making many times more than some of their imployees, the reason for this is the value they bring to bear as the result of hard work they’ve done in the past which has brought them to the point where their efforts are many times more valuable than the lower echelon workers in their field. I will admit that oftentimes it happens that people in high level positions do not work that hard physically. But they have huge pressures and countless complex problems to contend with, and the decisions they make can result in their companies failing, succeeding or simply remaining static. And the decisions they make can affect whether or not their companies’ employees even have jobs. Further, they don’t just fall into those jobs for no reason. The vast majority of time, people become CEO’s and/or highly successful businessmen because of the hard work and discipline they’ve exercised all their lives. They worked hard and studied in school, they worked hard and applied themselves on the job, they looked for and sought to take advantage of opportunities whenever opportunities presented themselves, and they constantly worked to learn as much about not only their own jobs but the jobs of the people they worked for so that when the time came, they’d be ready to take over the reins. > > Now contrast this with the employees at the lumberyard, or the produce manager at the grocery store, or the employees at your local tag agency, and there is a world of difference between the work they do and the work that your typical CEO or high-level businessman does. But that does not in any way mean that any of these people are lazy or stupid. They’ve simply chosen a less stressful, less demanding, and, frankly, less mentally challenging way of life than have the high income earners. And there’s nothing whatever wrong with that. > > And I’ll tell you something else: It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference from your own earning standpoint how much money CEO’s or anyone else makes. You get paid according to your value in the marketplace. Wealth is created, not parcelled out from a sum that would otherwise belong to everyone equally. I will not earn one dollar more in my life because Bill Gates is worth fifty billion dollars, and I wouldn’t earn one dollar more if he lost every cent. The money that he makes, or the money that the CEO of GM makes, or the money that Donald Trump makes has no bearing whatsoever on what anyone else will be able to make. Think about that, and remember it! You and everyone else earn what you and your skills and knowledge are worth in the marketplace. Stop being jealous and feeling cheated because somebody else has more than you do. You won’t make any more even if they lose every penny. So what it all boils down to is either you recognize this and stop feeling cheated because somebody has more than you do, or admit that your resentment is based upon nothing more than a childish resentment of the fact that somebody has more goodies than you do, and this despite the fact that he did more than you were willing to do in order to get them in the first place. What an excellent post. I get sick and tired of hearing the left pretend that rich people get rich by accident. It’s like they think there’s a money fairy that floats around, doling out dollars according to some cosmic dice roll. They don’t realize that nobody gives money to other people unless they get something in return of higher value (to the buyer). Rich people only get rich by doing things that others either can’t do (take out your appendix or entertain millions with their music) or won’t do (spend 8 years in medical school or practice 10,000 hours on their craft). And for some reason, the people on this board seem to think that it’s perfectly fine that the bottom half of the country doesn’t pay a dime in income tax and that the 70% overall that the top 10% pay isn’t high enough! It is to laugh. Honestly, it’s nothing but jealously and greed, standard traits of the left. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/103 "2011-08-09T14:42:25Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > But, but…You have it so much better in Canada, right? That is what all the higher taxes have afforded you and why we in the US should raise federal income taxes right? Your healthcare is first rate and you have a much higher standard of living. Hell, you’re rich by American standards right? > Oh, what’s that? Not so much? How does that work? [Actually](http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html) [yes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI). [Thanks for playing](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html). ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/104 "2011-08-09T15:18:48Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Indeed. Because he’s telling half truths. > > As you said, if he truly believed that the tax rates are unfairly low for his income, he could easily pay more (as could all the naysayers on this thread). But he won’t, and they won’t. Why would someone willingly put themselves in a worse financial position relative to their peers? Advocating for higher taxes only works if its applied to everyone in the same class as you. Otherwise, you feel a significant loss of salary without any commensurate benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/105 "2011-08-09T17:35:50Z")
So, what if we had a 1% increase across the board? Would that have any effect? Well, it would obviously have some, but would it make a dent? Let’s say we did 1% increase on everyone for a period of say 5 years. Everyone feels the pain, but not tooo much pain. [sub]just spitballing here[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/106 "2011-08-09T17:44:24Z")
I’m thinking considerable relief might be found by making the one-half of the country’s workers who no longer have to pay income tax…pay income tax. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/107 "2011-08-09T17:59:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > An annual income of 150k a year for an individual sounds impressive, but when I find out that a lot of the time the people earning that income work 70-80 hours a week it is less impressive. That works out to about $35-40/hr. Which is an extremely good income, but not rich. > > I wonder what percentage of people who earn 150k+ a year work less than 40-50 hours a week. I think this is exactly right. I have plenty of friends from law school who make six figures; I don’t. However, the folks making that kind of money often work 60-hour weeks, and so their hourly wage isn’t significantly greater than mine. I figure that free time and weekends have value all their own, and I’m willing to “purchase” that free time by forgoing the extra money I could make working a longer week. In fact, I make that decision on most Saturdays; overtime is available, but I rarely take it. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/108 "2011-08-09T19:03:25Z")
Not us, for sure! And actually a lot of folks who earn 250K or more wouldn’t be hit either - because I assume that this would be income net of deductions. Let’s assume someone earning 250K is paying 5,000 a month on a mortgage, or 60,000 a year (that’s about 25%). If 4,000 of that is interest and taxes, your income drops by 48,000 right there. And there’s state income tax (in most states), medical, etc. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/109 "2011-08-09T19:30:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m thinking considerable relief might be found by making the one-half of the country’s workers who no longer have to pay income tax…pay income tax. How dare they squander their subsistence-level income on extravagances like food and shelter, while the rest of us struggle to afford a third flatscreen for the newly-remodeled rumpus room! The mere thought that someone, somewhere is paying in _one thin dime_ less than they extract from me (at _gunpoint!_ Like communist _thugs!_) nearly makes me choke on my cognac. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/110 "2011-08-09T19:33:03Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > No. I mean the high percentage (\>45%\*) of households that pay zero federal income tax. Either “sharing the pain” means everyone, or it’s a lie. That’s right, the well to do person who pays 25% of his income in taxes and still has a lot left over is feeling a lot more pain than the wage earner who is barely making enough to feed his family and keep his house? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/111 "2011-08-09T19:35:50Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Not us, for sure! And actually a lot of folks who earn 250K or more wouldn’t be hit either - because I assume that this would be income net of deductions. Let’s assume someone earning 250K is paying 5,000 a month on a mortgage, or 60,000 a year (that’s about 25%). If 4,000 of that is interest and taxes, your income drops by 48,000 right there. And there’s state income tax (in most states), medical, etc. And if the $250K threshold is too painful, all you have to do is give enough to charity to get below it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/112 "2011-08-09T19:37:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m thinking considerable relief might be found by making the one-half of the country’s workers who no longer have to pay income tax…pay income tax. On the contrary, Republicans seem to be in favor of workers paying less income tax - for instance by cutting the pay of state workers, which will reduce their tax burden. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/113 "2011-08-09T19:48:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > How dare they squander their subsistence-level income on extravagances like food and shelter, while the rest of us struggle to afford a third flatscreen for the newly-remodeled rumpus room! > > The mere thought that someone, somewhere is paying in _one thin dime_ less than they extract from me (at _gunpoint!_ Like communist _thugs!_) nearly makes me choke on my cognac. Do you honestly think that one half of this country’s population lives subsistence-level lives, barely able to keep food on the table? If so, you’re so far out of touch with reality that there’s no point in arguing with you about it. > [@Voyager](#): > > On the contrary, Republicans seem to be in favor of workers paying less income tax - for instance by cutting the pay of state workers, which will reduce their tax burden. State workers should have their pay cut. Their benefits too. I see no reason why employees of the state should be paid out of proportion to what they would make in private enterprise. And I’m sure you know as well as I do that higher pay and better benefits is the result when you work for the government, because the government doesn’t have to worry about profit and can largely make its own rules. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/114 "2011-08-09T21:02:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you honestly think that one half of this country’s population lives subsistence-level lives, barely able to keep food on the table? If so, you’re so far out of touch with reality that there’s no point in arguing with you about it. What percentage of the nearly half do you feel are living the life of Riley, and should be taxed until they are sufficiently destitute? Is there a poverty rate you’re personally comfortable with, which if achieved, would liberate you to enjoy (at long last) the manifold comforts of your own life? C’mon, let’s haggle. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/115 "2011-08-10T01:48:54Z")
And, what kind of overhead and growing the government will be required to collect the federal income tax of the bottom 50%? How to collect that tax in a way that is revenue net positive versus the cost of collection, and doesn’t grow the government in the process? That’s a bitch, ain’t it? Or is it cool to grow the tax collection part of the government even if it costs more than the incremental tax it raises? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/116 "2011-08-10T01:55:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > State workers should have their pay cut. Their benefits too. I see no reason why employees of the state should be paid out of proportion to what they would make in private enterprise. And I’m sure you know as well as I do that higher pay and better benefits is the result when you work for the government, because the government doesn’t have to worry about profit and can largely make its own rules. Funny, when I was working as a court interpreter for the Feds, with a 3.5 undergrad GPA from a competitive school, I could have made more (and had better benefits) working as a receptionist in the private sector. Even after 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/117 "2011-08-10T02:38:51Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > And, what kind of overhead and growing the government will be required to collect the federal income tax of the bottom 50%? How to collect that tax in a way that is revenue net positive versus the cost of collection, and doesn’t grow the government in the process? That’s a bitch, ain’t it? Or is it cool to grow the tax collection part of the government even if it costs more than the incremental tax it raises? None if you make it a forced deduction like FICA. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/118 "2011-08-10T02:40:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > State workers should have their pay cut. Their benefits too. I see no reason why employees of the state should be paid out of proportion to what they would make in private enterprise. And I’m sure you know as well as I do that higher pay and better benefits is the result when you work for the government, because the government doesn’t have to worry about profit and can largely make its own rules. You needn’t worry, that’s happening all by itself. I’ve had two cost of living increases in 8 years, and I’m at the same paygrade I was hired in at 1996. As a webmaster. I’m their CISO now. Heck of a lot more responsibility. Healthcare sucks, too. And that cushy retirement? They’ve been hacking away at that too. It’d be horribly ironic if the LAST thing that kept me here gets legislated away before I get it. Oh, and we’ve lost a good 40% of our staff over the last 4 years…and the replacement jobs are all dropped a grade and at-will. Like the private sector, you can be canned on a whim. Unlike the private sector, you’ll get paid crap! Whatta Bargain! ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/119 "2011-08-10T03:00:11Z")
Starving Artist, just demonstrates once again how far he is from making $250k. Dude, give up the dream, you’re never going to make enough money that the “rich” tax breaks will help you. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739/120 "2011-08-10T03:44:44Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Starving Artist, just demonstrates once again how far he is from making $250k. Dude, give up the dream, you’re never going to make enough money that the “rich” tax breaks will help you. And that is it. The lottery dream: I don’t make that much now but when I do I don’t want the government taking a penny of it. Wealth acquisition is directly proportional to hard work, the American Dream, the poor are lazy the rich have earned it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-000-year-income/591739.md?page=7)