# $250 hotel incidental charge for "unauthorized" tampering with HVAC controls
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 15, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863 "2025-07-15T03:53:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/201 "2025-07-17T14:19:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Hacking somebody else’s property to operate it in a manner unintended by its owner, regardless of the effort or cost it will incur to address, as a matter of personal preference/comfort is hardly ethical.
It ain’t bad either, since no damages occurred. So, morally neutral.
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/202 "2025-07-17T14:23:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> They’re not going to start making rooms cost $124.98 instead of $125, they’ll just save the collected pennies across all the rooms and all the properties and have an extra pile of money at the end much like the old story of taking one olive off each airline salad and saving millions.
No, they aren’t going to lower the price to $124.98 - but as much as people complain about nickel and diming, it isn’t always bad. Let’s say for example, I’m buying concert/event tickets. I will generally prefer to pay an additional fee to park, rather than have it rolled into the ticket price. Why ? Because if it’s “free”, that means everyone is paying for it whether they need to park or not. If six people go in my car to a event with “free” parking, we will pay the same as if we took six separate cars. If I take public transit or get dropped of, I pay the same as if I drove and needed to park a car. It’s not going to work in every situation - if 95% of the people going to the mall are going to want to park, it’s probably not worth setting up paid parking. ( But the price of providing that parking will be built into the store’s rent and passed on in the prces of the item I buy , so still not “free” ) And if the cost of the tepid ,short shower only saves two cents a day, it’s not going to make a difference to me when I’m choosing a hotel. But if a hotel charges a $25 daily resort fee that includes coffee, tea, soft drinks, flavored water,fresh fruit, health bars, and snacks available 24 hours.
In-room bottled water
High-Speed Wireless Internet Access
Access to Blink Fitness
Digital access to The New York Times
Daily Housekeeping
Luggage Storage
Local and Toll-Free Calls
Access to over 6,000 books (from a real hotel’s website)
I’m staying at the place that’s $25/day cheaper. Because out of all those “amenities”, the only one I might use daily (if I stay multiple nights) is the coffee.
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/203 "2025-07-17T14:25:39Z")
Also, as mentioned but ignored, it isn’t actually an unintended manner. It’s a documented feature known as “VIP Mode.”
Now, this does go to the argument the OP should have called the desk- maybe they would have enabled VIP mode for him. But it isn’t really hacking or jailbreaking. If Bill Gates checks into the Tropicana and wants it colder, they’re going to send someone up to turn on VIP Mode.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/204 "2025-07-17T14:26:57Z")
When you do it secretly and without permission, it is hacking or, if you prefer, stealing.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/205 "2025-07-17T14:28:32Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#):
>
> Have you read the explanations for why people are supporting the hotel, including why $250 is not “extortionate” from either a legal or an ethical perspective?
Wellllll the explanation is…for whatever reasons, there’s a handful of people who has an odd grudge against me. If I say “A” they would say “B”, even if it is factually incorrect.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/206 "2025-07-17T14:29:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> When you do it secretly and without permission, it is hacking or, if you prefer, stealing.
Stealing???
🤣
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/207 "2025-07-17T14:30:32Z")
You tried to steal services without paying for them.
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### Author:  [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/208 "2025-07-17T14:36:36Z")
Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. If the thermostat manufacturer calls it “VIP” mode that doesn’t mean the hotel uses it in that manner. It’s just a name that some engineer or marketing person came up with.
For all we know this hotel will never enable that, no matter who asks. Or maybe they demand an extra $5000 from Bill Gates every time he asks. We can speculate all day.
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### Author:  [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/209 "2025-07-17T14:40:34Z")
> Blockquote
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> I am flabbergasted that anyone takes the hotel’s side in this …
>
> … This is pure nickel-and-dime enshittification and should be resisted by all hotel guests all the time.
I am 100% with you on this. The level of corporate obeisance shown in this thread shocks me. What’s next, a thread calling for prosecution of mattress-tag-cutters?
One of the handful of bare-minimum expectations of a hotel room is that the HVAC will be able to maintain a human-comfortable temperature for a wide range of possible guest preferences. OP did not bring a colony of penguins and set the rool to 33F.
If garbage-quality construction and penny-pinching thermostat limitations prevent a comfortable setting, all bets are off IMO. Sure, one could call the front desk (like those people are empowered to do anything) or more directly, leave (at a ridiculous level of convenience even assuming a room is available elsewhere).
The idea that overriding a digital setting from the control panel caused damage is laughable. The idea that a modern HVAC unit could be damaged by a temperature setting starting with a 6 is maybe worse.
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### Author:  [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/210 "2025-07-17T14:42:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> If it’s, say, 98 outside, and I go in to a room that’s actually at 80, I’m going to view it as a welcome relief. Going straight from 98 to 68, I’d probably be shivering. So if that’s what the OP means, then what he did didn’t even help.
However, what the room feels like when you first enter is not the same as what it feels like after you’ve been in there for a while.
> [@filmore](#):
>
> If the outside is very hot, the walls will be hotter and will be radiating more heat. Think of heat like the brightness of a lightbulb. When it’s very hot outside, the walls will be “brighter” than if it’s cool outside. The hot walls are adding heat into your body quicker than the 68 degree air can pull it out. Air isn’t really the best heat transfer medium. So to be more comfortable, lowering the air temperature even more can help pull the heat out of you quicker. If the walls are well insulated or not facing the sun, this isn’t as much of a problem.
Exactly. Also different people radiate heat differently than others. Then there’s being awake versus sleeping, etc.
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> 1 - The AC will work a little too well and drop the evaporator coil to a temperature well below freezing. Water vapor will then condense on it and freeze (frost) slowly build up and choke off the air flow. I have seen this happen several times.
>
> 2 - The AC will not be able to keep up with demand and will run excessively. Usually the condenser fan will go out first, then the compressor.
>
> If you set the room temperature abnormally high, ~80°F or higher, the AC can run under loaded out of range of proper operation for the freon pressure/temperature curves.
All three of these points are wrong in at least one way. Your typical AC can’t run “too well” in the sense of running at “max power”. Most don’t have variable capacity, they just depend on run time to do the job at hand. Under normal circumstances, an AC is not supposed to form ice. That’s a symptom of either being undercharged with refrigerant (counter-intuitive I know) or running too long at low outdoor temperatures. If it’s hot outside and cold inside, the evaporator won’t get cold enough to form ice because the high outdoor temperature leads to higher condensing temperature and pressure, and thus higher (but still cold) evaporator temperatures. If it’s cold outside then the condensing temperature and pressure is reduced, and the evaporator temperature can go below freezing. That’s usually not an issue because presumably if it’s cold outside it won’t be so warm inside to require the AC to run for long enough to build up frost. However, a clogged air filter and dirty coil can reduce airflow enough to accelerate frost build-up. I could also see this happen in desert climates where the room gets hot during the day and the AC is cranked up to max (despite that not actually changing anything), then overnight when it cools down outside, the evaporator starts to freeze while the room is still warm.
I’ve never heard anything about reliability of the condenser fan motor versus the compressor. In a window AC unit the condenser and evaporator fan motor are one and the same. If it goes out then the compressor will quickly overheat and hopefully trigger a cutoff switch. Motors and compressors tend to run better when they’re run continuously. The surge of electricity that’s required to start up a motor puts a lot of the wear on them. Oil settling out of the compressor motor can make starting those up more stressful too, much like starting a car engine cold.
Regarding operating above 80ºF, most AC units nowadays have timers and setback controls, so they’re going to be running in those high ambient conditions pretty regularly. I’d be interested to see any documentation that states they shouldn’t be operated in such cases, because similarly to cold days, they’re not going to run for long if they’re holding a room at 80º (let’s call it vacation mode or away mode), or they’re going to quickly pull the temperature down to more reasonable levels to for proper compressor cooling when coming out of setback.
> [@Beckdawrek](#):
>
> You know what, in your own home, I assume you have control of the thermostat.
> How would you feel if your overnight guest changed it? To suit themselves.
That’s not a good analogy because most homes have only one thermostat for the whole house, whereas a hotel guest is only changing the temperature in their own room. If I had window AC units in all the bedrooms in my house and my guest changed the temperature in their bedroom, then that’s perfectly fine.
> [@Gordon\_G](#):
>
> I am somewhat surprised that the majority here supports the hotel, and seems to have no problem with the extortionate $250 price.
> [@filmore](#):
>
> It may have been the HVAC system itself which did the snitching. It may have had the ability to log changes and alert the hotel when a thermostat was changed to a temp that is out of bounds.
The thermostats are probably hooked up to a centralized energy management system. It’s possible that management didn’t know the temperature was reduced below the programmed minimum, but they may very well have known that the thermostat in the OP’s room dropped off the system at 7:00 PM or whenever it was, and then housekeeping reported the lowered temperature the next day. Getting the thermostat reconnected to the system likely requires getting an HVAC tech to the room itself, and they’ll need to get on the phone with the energy management company to coordinate the re-connection, and there’s probably some reprogramming to do as well. The tech could have to pull the thermostat off the wall to read a serial number on the back or scan a QR code, and that risks shorting out a component on the thermostat board or bending a pin or losing the wire in the wall. All this could easily add up to $250 in direct costs.
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> I’d gladly pay less for timed and tepid water.
Tepid water is a non-starter. 120º is the absolute minimum necessary temperature to prevent bacterial growth, especially Legionella. Timed hot water availability could work but it would need to be advertised clearly upfront as part of the booking process. Otherwise you’ll get lots of angry guests who couldn’t shower before leaving for their 6:00 AM flight or who got in late from their hiking trip and can’t clean up. The sheer volume of water in the pipes leading to all the rooms could also require higher capacity boilers to reheat it from cold versus keeping it up to temperature all the time (note that unlike most houses, the hot water lines in hotels are constantly recirculated so it’s always on-tap, otherwise it could take 10+ minutes for farther-flung rooms to get hot water, all the while flushing the not-yet-hot water down the drain). Since you could conceivably turn off the hot water in a hotel in the middle of the night and the middle of the day (housekeeping might have something to say about that, but maybe they could have their own water heater for the laundry and cleaning facilities), I suspect that would lead to the water spending too much time in the “danger zone” of microbial growth, which would require heating the water above 140º to sterilize it afterwards, and that may just eat up most of the energy savings.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/211 "2025-07-17T14:43:15Z")
Ok, then timed showers for me.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/212 "2025-07-17T15:08:35Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#):
>
> Give more examples
He won’t even bother to answer where this hotel was, so don’t expect any complex answers.
(I vote Henderson for the hotel.)
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/213 "2025-07-17T15:15:50Z")
> [@doreen](#):
>
> But if a hotel charges a $25 daily resort fee that includes coffee, tea, soft drinks, flavored water,fresh fruit, health bars, and snacks available 24 hours.
Sure, but that’s far different from what was said, being happy to pay less for a weaker shower. And, again, this is already a common option with a wide range of hotels and motels offering differing levels of service. This isn’t the difference between 24hr room service and a whirlpool tubs, this is the difference between having a pen in the hotel desk drawer.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/214 "2025-07-17T15:28:06Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> That casino are nazis about customers falling asleep. And at that particular casino whenever you get in trouble, they run your license and put it on their “file”.
Using “Nazi” to describe something mild like that is yet another example of disgusting and entitled behavior.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/215 "2025-07-17T15:33:50Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> He won’t even bother to answer where this hotel was, so don’t expect any complex answers.
Why does the hotel location matter?
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/216 "2025-07-17T15:35:45Z")
I pay between $500 and $1,000 a night for hotel rooms. I don’t want a nerfed thermostat. I’m sure as hell paying enough to not get a nerfed thermostat.
But this crap is spreading across the industry at an alarming pace.
In my personal case I like it hot, not cold. Insufficient air conditioning is _never_ my problem. But when in cold climates I often find the hot side is limited to well below what I consider a comfortable room temperature.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/217 "2025-07-17T15:39:29Z")
Is it the corporate part that gives people pause?
Make it a rental property owned by some 80 year old retiree. Hacking their thermostat as your first option isn’t any more ok than for a room in a branded hotel chain.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/218 "2025-07-17T15:42:48Z")
> [@hajario](#):
>
> Why does the hotel location matter?
Did I say it did?
He gets upset when people assume it was in Vegas (home of many a degenerate gambler) but refuses to say where it was, which is trivial and not at all giving away personal information.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/219 "2025-07-17T15:51:54Z")
I’ve never interacted with you in any way, and until this thread, I have had no judgement about your character. I posted an explanation, which I assure you is not predicated on any animus toward you.
Neither from my reading are a good number of other posters contributions.
It does seem that some opinions are taking into account your other posts about hotels and your behavior in them. They sound like helpful context, rather than irrelevant ad hominem attacks.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/220 "2025-07-17T16:00:49Z")
I don’t fault you for using non-destructive means to set the thermostat to your level of comfort.
But you knew that this required specialist knowledge, either via Google or via calling an actual HVAC tech. You could’ve reset it before you left, but you didn’t. You left it in this state, not considering how this would burden the next guess who didn’t know why it was in this state, or the cost to the hotel of a service call to figure it out. So they’re right to charge you for leaving the room in that state.
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