# $250 hotel incidental charge for "unauthorized" tampering with HVAC controls
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 15, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863 "2025-07-15T03:53:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/101 "2025-07-16T05:59:09Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#):
>
> You know what, in your own home, I assume you have control of the thermostat.
> How would you feel if your overnight guest changed it? To suit themselves.
> Or set the coffee maker “their way”?
> Or pee’d allover the floor? Puked in the sink?
>
> And left early the next day. You might be upset.
A guest changing my thermostat or setting the coffee maker their way? A little annoyed, but I would let it slide. The peeing and puking all over the place is not acceptable. Completely different level than the first two. False equivalence.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/102 "2025-07-16T05:59:13Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> Establishments can’t go around banning people all willy nilly from properties just because they’re annoyed…and not expect any backlash.
What sort of backlash? Posting on message boards about how they were maltreated?
Yes, if a business has a grumpy asshole of an owner or manager, who gets annoyed at large numbers of customers, and chases them off, then that business has a problem, and it’s not with their customers.
But, if a business bans someone from their property for violating their policies, or just behaving in odd, dickish ways…then the problem probably isn’t a too-easily-annoyed, fussy owner or manager.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/103 "2025-07-16T06:03:34Z")
LOL (sorry)
What did you do about that pizza parlor and its owner, after being trespassed?
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/104 "2025-07-16T06:14:59Z")
What could I do?
I could’ve left a scathing review. But, one’s not likely to turn people off from it, in this small place. The pie is that good. Very beloved place.
The guy is known to be a grumpy-butt.
I think he got tough with me because as he was griping me out I pointed at his own hand lettered sign that said, “If there’s a problem with your pie, we’ll fix it”
Stopped short of giving you a freebie.
But he would give you a discount slip for your next one.
I had a drawer full of those slips. I think I might have used one, at most, two times.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/105 "2025-07-16T06:17:23Z")
Wow, being actually trespassed. Never had that experience before.
I’ve been kicked out of a few casinos, but only for 24 hours or one week. Never permanently trespassed. One did tell me not to come back, but they didn’t make me sign anything. It wasn’t a formal banning. I did stop coming for a few years. Now i’m coming back. I just make sure not to get a handpay (a win over $1199). My drivers license is in their system, when you have handpays they run your license.
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/106 "2025-07-16T06:22:04Z")
I still hold out hope. He never said permanently.
I sent my daughter with her card(her married name on it).
But he got suspicious it was us, by the order. And called the cops on her. She was nearly arrested…'cause she can’t shut her mouth. Much.
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### Author:  [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/107 "2025-07-16T06:29:38Z")
Ah, you’ve stayed at my hotel.
I know Tucson is hot, but cranking your AC down to 52, as people do after bypassing the controls lock, freezes the unit. If you’re that hot, take a quick cool shower. Drink something cold. Strip down to your undies.
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/108 "2025-07-16T06:31:12Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> I just make sure not to get a handpay (a win over $1199). My drivers license is in their system, when you have handpays they run your license.
I’m new to the gambling, why would you do that?
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/109 "2025-07-16T06:33:41Z")
I note that the video doesn’t tell you how to re-set the thermostat to restricted mode. I suspect that if the OP had known how, and done that whenever he was out of the room, everything would have been fine.
I’m from the old school, i’d just have run a towel under hot water and wrapped it around the unit. But i am olde.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/110 "2025-07-16T06:36:39Z")
> [@kitap](#):
>
> Ah, you’ve stayed at my hotel.
>
> I know Tucson is hot, but cranking your AC down to 52, as people do after bypassing the controls lock, freezes the unit. If you’re that hot, take a quick cool shower. Drink something cold. Strip down to your undies.
Ok, THAT is bad. Anything below 60 on an AC is too risky. But 63 just for a night (and a hot night/evening, that matters) shouldn’t do any damage. But fuck it. I won’t do it again. It’s not worth the drama.
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/111 "2025-07-16T06:43:55Z")
Or the $250.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/112 "2025-07-16T06:52:01Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> But 63 just for a night (and a hot night/evening, that matters) shouldn’t do any damage.
Well, the explanation I linked in [this previous post,](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/75) although I can’t vouch for its authority, seems to consider even 64.4°F to be “abnormally low” to the point of risking damage to the system.
Did you even try contacting the front desk and requesting them to cool your room more effectively? Some systems are set up to let employees override a minimum setting for a specific room from their control location.
If you tell them that the thermostat setting of 68 degrees isn’t actually cooling the room to 68 degrees, they might tweak the setting for you if they can.
I don’t think they’ll be sympathetic to a request that they keep the AC fan running constantly for you so you can drown out random noises, though. Like I said, there are other devices you can use for that.
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### Author:  [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/113 "2025-07-16T06:53:55Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#):
>
> I’m new to the gambling, why would you do that?
I restrict myself to certain games and/or denominations to make sure I don’t win $1200 or more at once. I have enough experience to know which games are more/less likely to do so. They kicked me out a while back and told me not to come back.
It is usually standard procedure to make people sign something formally before being trespassed. Some casinos may actually send the documents to your house via certified mail. If you show up on their property after being formally excluded a “suit” (usually state police) will handcuff you and take you to the “backroom” and then the muni police will pick you up. But apparently some people in authority like to create rules out of thin air. What would stop that casino from calling the police on me eventhough I had not signed any formal papers? My license is in their system.
When someone wins over $1199 at one time (instead of multiple wins adding up to $1200+), the slot locks up and a slot tech and security guard is automatically paged. Management and suit(s) will be paged if the win is 5K and over. The slot tech runs everyone’s license after every handpay. It is in my best interest not to get a handpay there. Hell, it’s not unheard of for people to hit the jackpot and then hit the door because they are in the system and don’t want to be charged for trespassing. 😃 Or they might even have a warrant unrelated to the casinos.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/114 "2025-07-16T08:11:54Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> Intent matters.
Not really.
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> The hotel goofed when they expected a guest to behave a certain way when there were no clear established guidelines. Now that they are slamming me with that incidental, that hotel needs to put up a sign
Was there a sign saying you were not allowed to paint the walls? No? Then you contend you would be allowed to paint the walls hot pink. Especially as you intention was because that color helps you focus and it was not done maliciously.
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> I restrict myself to certain games and/or denominations to make sure I don’t win $1200 or more at once.
Why? The only reason I know of to do this is to not get a 1099G so you don’t pay tax on your winnings. But then you talk about tresspassing. Are you playing at casinos you have been tresspassed from?
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/115 "2025-07-16T08:49:50Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> This is your fault for staying in such a high class hotel. Next time look for a roadside motel advertising “Color TV!” which has an old crone chain-smoking Dosals and nipping from a 40 of Old English ‘800’ at the desk. You can turn that chained-to-the-radiator window AC as high as it will go without any fees, no ‘snitching ass housekeeper’ to bother you, and I guarantee the ‘brown noise’ that it makes will mask anything short of gunfire in the next room as well as aiding you with your “pooters”.
I’ve stayed in places like that, only the desk clerk was chain smoking Raleighs, and the Color TV was indeed color TV, but it only got three channels. Well, I was late getting there, and had little choice but to take the room that had been reserved for me. So I could put up with the cigarette burns in the carpet, and the shower that oozed goop, and the uneven bed, for one night, and I got the hell out of there the next day.
Especially with the thin walls, and the noises the neighbours made, as described in the OP, I’m wondering if he was staying at one of those places.
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### Author:  [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/116 "2025-07-16T10:28:08Z")
> [@Tibby](#):
>
> should state that)—but $250?
I don’t know the law in OP’s state, but around here, a business is not entitled to charge “penalties”. They can’t fine you. They can only charge reasonable costs.
Now, the Reasonable Costs for a business are often much larger than you would reasonably expect, but around here, the courts still frequently find that businesses have been charging “penalties”, illegally.
Let’s assume that the hotel contracts out engineering services (I suppose that a very small hotel it might do so). How much would the contractor charge for a HVAC call out? Add 20% to that. If they don’t contract out engineering services then… Housekeeping had to call up the janitor, and they’ve wacked you with a fine.
I’ve written “reasonable” rather than “actual” because a business is reasonably allowed to make a reasonable profit on actual costs.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/117 "2025-07-16T12:13:13Z")
This is generally true in US law as well. For very limited values of “generally”.
But I can guarantee that $250 would be reasonable. I mean $50 for putting $12 worth of gasoline in a rental car is considered reasonable it every state I’ve rented a car in.
If we (a grocery store) need to have a $30/hour mechanic on staff at each store because mischief makers keep messing with some gizmo, no court is going to say “it only took that mechanic 15 minutes to reset that gizmo, so you can only collect 0.25 X $30 from the particular miscreant you caught”
And no court is going to say, “you didn’t have a sign up saying that you’d be charged $100 for jamming something in the freezer door to keep it open”
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### Author:  [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/118 "2025-07-16T12:22:13Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> What? For having natural bodily functions? And for trying to COVER it up?
Right. Concern for others definitely seems like your #1 priority. It is truly unfortunate that your saintly activities were foiled by
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> some snitching ass housekeeper
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/119 "2025-07-16T12:32:14Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> One did tell me not to come back, but they didn’t make me sign anything. It wasn’t a formal banning.
I am not going to pretend I know the law in all 50 states - but I doubt if there is anywhere that requires a written notice to ban someone from the premises. There is certainly nowhere that allows you to avoid banning by refusing to sign a notice. Those notices/signatures are to make it _easier_ to prove you were told not to return but they aren’t necessary.
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> What would stop that casino from calling the police on me eventhough I had not signed any formal papers? My license is in their system.
Most likely nothing - they might have difficulty getting the police to arrest you , there might be difficulty in getting you prosecuted , it might be hard to get the jury to convict you but it absolutely can happen. A lot will depend on how you act every step of the way. And “my word against theirs” doesn’t really matter - most crimes come down to that , in the end. If you steal my car, and say that you didn’t steal itt, I lent it to you , you still can get arrested even though it’s my word aganst yours.
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### Author:  [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/250-hotel-incidental-charge-for-unauthorized-tampering-with-hvac-controls/1020863/120 "2025-07-16T12:39:12Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#):
>
> I’m confident that most people don’t enjoy when those in authority establish rules out of thin air just because they’re in a bad mood or happen not to like someone.
I don’t think it’s “out of thin air” when they have it set up so you have to proactively tamper with it to get it to the temperature you think you want. That didn’t happen by accident; someone had to deliberately enact a policy to put that limit there.
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