# 27 dead, 18 children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050 "2012-12-14T18:38:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/721 "2012-12-20T03:27:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Meh, I figured it out, anyway; SA lives in Oklahoma City. It’s the only city that fits; it had over 50 murders last year. … Or Tulsa maybe? A quick check shows 53 murders last year and 26 in the first half of this year. It’s a fair-sized city too. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/722 "2012-12-20T03:29:37Z")
I find cites for 60 murders in Oklahoma City in 2011 and 85 by Nov 2012. Did they have 11 since then? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/723 "2012-12-20T03:30:14Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Or Tulsa maybe? A quick check shows 53 murders last year and 26 in the first half of this year. It’s a fair-sized city too. That would be on track for pretty much the same number, but anyway it doesn’t fit references he’s made in the past. Oklahoma’s a very murderous state. Generally speaking the South has much higher murder rates than the U.S. average. Oklahoma isn’t the worst of them, though. Interestingly, the really liberal states tend to have lower murder rates. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/724 "2012-12-20T03:33:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That would be on track for pretty much the same number, but anyway it doesn’t fit references he’s made in the past. Fair enough. I can see someone pushing the envelope a bit to include Oklahoma in the Midwest even though I don’t consider it so myself. Some people include Missouri, and if I were an OK resident and wanted to obfuscate just a bit, I might say Midwest too. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/725 "2012-12-20T03:39:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I find cites for 60 murders in Oklahoma City in 2011 and 85 by Nov 2012. > > Did they have 11 since then? I had that reference too. 85 by Nov 20, which is the number I saw, projects to about 95 by year’s end. Close enough, though I don’t understand why the number was embellished to be more than 60%. Or why the numbers were changed to be three times higher. But there it is, OKC has a high murder rate this year and the description of its growth from 2011 to 2012 in percentage terms is essentially true. **Siam Sam,** Missouri has always been in the Midwest, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/726 "2012-12-20T03:40:34Z")
According to the [OKC District Attorney](http://kfor.com/2012/07/10/okc-murder-rate-spikes-in-2012/) the spike is due to an unprecedented number of domestic violence and murder/suicide homicides in 2012. > [@](#): > > **Prater said a series of deadly domestic-related murder/suicides have spiked the homicide numbers this year.** “The domestic violence homicides we’re seeing, one is too many, but the rate we’re seeing is absolutely shocking,” Prater said. It appears to be not so much due to rampaging packs of criminals and hooligans busting into homes in the middle of the night and killing the occupants, but rather from delusional people taking their trusty .38s out from under their pillows and killing themselves and each other with them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/727 "2012-12-20T03:47:06Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > but rather from delusional people taking their trusty .38s out from under their pillows and killing themselves and each other with them. Sounds like the kind of place that **Starving Artist** would be right at home. (No offense to any non-delusional people who live in Oklahoma City.) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/728 "2012-12-20T03:48:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **Siam Sam,** Missouri has always been in the Midwest, hasn’t it? Yeah, well, sort of on the borderline. Saint Louis for sure, I guess. Certainly more Midwest than, say, Texas is Southwest. (Growing up in West Texas, _no one_ called it the Southwest, that’s just been in recent decades.) But the main thing is, I can see someone fudging OK as the Midwest just to obfuscate. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/729 "2012-12-20T03:50:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I had that reference too. 85 by Nov 20, which is the number I saw, projects to about 95 by year’s end. Close enough, though I don’t understand why the number was embellished to be more than 60%. Or why the numbers were changed to be three times higher. But there it is, OKC has a high murder rate this year and the description of its growth from 2011 to 2012 in percentage terms is essentially true. > > **Siam Sam,** Missouri has always been in the Midwest, hasn’t it? I guess because I live in Memphis that doesn’t ound like such a high number at all. “The average number annual of homicides in Memphis during the last six years is 149” > **[\- Breaking News, Weather, Traffic and Sports - WMC Action News 5 - Memphis,...](https://www.actionnews5.com/)** > > WMC Action News 5 leads the Mid-South in breaking news and weather for Memphis, Germantown, Collierville, Bartlett, Olive Branch, Southaven and West Memphis. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/730 "2012-12-20T04:24:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Yeah, well, sort of on the borderline. Saint Louis for sure, I guess. Certainly more Midwest than, say, Texas is Southwest. (Growing up in West Texas, _no one_ called it the Southwest, that’s just been in recent decades.) > > But the main thing is, I can see someone fudging OK as the Midwest just to obfuscate. Aso, the only part of Missouri I’ve spent any time in is just across the state line from Arkansas. Definitely still a rural southern feel, so I always have a hard time classifying Missouri as Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/731 "2012-12-20T04:33:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sounds like the kind of place that **Starving Artist** would be right at home. Not to mention being home to a [paper towel company](http://www.regionalfoodbank.org/img/mio_papertowels.jpg) that raises funds for children’s charities. On a breezy day he can probably stand on his back porch and smell the new cardboard tubes rolling out fresh from the factory. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Fair enough. I can see someone pushing the envelope a bit to include Oklahoma in the Midwest even though I don’t consider it so myself. Some people include Missouri, and if I were an OK resident and wanted to obfuscate just a bit, I might say Midwest too. In SA’s world OKC is the Midwest because anything north of Iowa is part of Canada and anything west of Arizona is part of Soviet Russia. (_in Soviet Russia, self-defense tool kills you_.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/732 "2012-12-20T04:38:20Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I guess because I live in Memphis that doesn’t ound like such a high number at all. > > “The average number annual of homicides in Memphis during the last six years is 149” > [Action News 5 | WMC Memphis | Weather | Mid-South](http://www.wmctv.com/story/16432049/memphis-police-explain-increase-in-murder-rate) Wow. 149 murders in a city the size of Memphis. I wonder why it’s so much higher than other cities. That is, by way of comparison, four times the rate of New York City. I quickly found that 1. The most common reason for people being murdered in Memphis is an argument between aquaintances or a domestic dispute, and 2. The murder was usually committed by the murderer taking out a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/733 "2012-12-20T05:21:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s not bullshit. If I’m gonna have to put up with years of crap related to where I’m from like I have about my age, it’s gonna cost ya. There are just too many chicken shitters around here. Really **Starving Artist** , I’d like to think we are all above that kind of thing. ([I’d like to, but I can’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHFwE)) So, the increase in homicides in your hometown is due to unprecedented numbers of domestic violence murders, and you are citing that as a reason to keep a loaded gun in every room of the house, right? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/734 "2012-12-20T15:11:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wow. 149 murders in a city the size of Memphis. I wonder why it’s so much higher than other cities. That is, by way of comparison, four times the rate of New York City. > > I quickly found that > > 1. The most common reason for people being murdered in Memphis is an argument between aquaintances or a domestic dispute, and > > 2. The murder was usually committed by the murderer taking out a gun. Yep. Pretty much. This is why I don’t feel unsafe in Memphis. I am not the type to start arguments, generally speaking 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/735 "2012-12-20T20:01:20Z")
Closed pending staff discussion of policy issues raised by this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/736 "2012-12-22T01:43:06Z")
This thread was closed temporarily following a complaint about the actions of a moderator. The facts: 1. In the course of an acrimonious debate, the identity of **Starving Artist** ’s hometown became an issue. In post #602 **RickJay** asked SA to name the city and asked, “tell me it’s okay for me to use your IP address to verify your location,” which Rick as a moderator had the ability to do. 2. SA refused to name his hometown. Rick deduced it based on information given by SA in previous posts and named it in post #720. SA then beefed. Upon review, we’ve concluded that: 1. Rick was participating in the discussion as an ordinary poster rather than as a mod, but blurred that distinction by saying he’d check SA’s IP number. Only mods can view IP numbers, and are supposed to do so only to enforce board rules. Although RickJay was provoked by SA’s obstinate behavior, he nonetheless was out of line, even though he didn’t actually check the number. 2. Our privacy policy says: “From time to time we may acquire nonconfidential but sensitive information about you, some of which you may have posted yourself to our board. We won’t disclose or repeat such information except as (a) reasonable and necessary to manage our business,” etc. While the name of SA’s hometown wasn’t all that sensitive, SA was not unreasonably creeped out by its disclosure. This is not the kind of thing mods should be doing. RickJay acknowledges the above mistakes and has apologized to SA. SA has accepted the apology. I continue to have high confidence in RickJay and am grateful for his long service to the SDMB. I regret having to go public with this but felt it necessary to indicate the seriousness with which we take our privacy policy. One last thing: SA, do everybody including yourself a favor and dial back. That’s it. Feel free to resume. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/737 "2012-12-22T02:05:46Z")
God bless us, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/738 "2012-12-22T02:31:54Z")
Is **SA** still allowed to whore out cites at $5000 a pop? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/739 "2012-12-22T02:37:44Z")
Dammit who woke Ed? I kid I kid. I’m glad it was worked out. Thought it was pretty clear he was able to figure it out with information already provided just like anyone else could. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050/740 "2012-12-22T03:16:00Z")
So… SA said, go ahead, figure it out! and then complained that someone (who was also a mod) managed to do so? And that in the process, he didn’t get paid? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/27-dead-18-children/644050.md?page=38)