# 29 year old incoming Australian MP shows his naivety **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 30, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376 "2022-05-30T19:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/41 "2022-06-01T02:08:17Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I think he’s totally wrong and elected officials should be well paid, running the government of a major country like Australia should be a full time professional job. But of course, Greens prefer to live in a world of rainbows and unicorns. I’d say that getting paid three-four times the median is well beyond “well paid” and I like politicians who don’t prefer to enable the rich capitalism-ing us “back” to peons and hereditary nobility. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/42 "2022-06-01T02:09:18Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > My perspective in these debates over how much a member of Congress “should” be paid is to look at their expected duties: > > - Responsible for a staff of anywhere from 15-40 or so specialists across work locations in Washington and multiple sites back in their district. > - Regularly engage in complex negotiations with peers in the legislative and executive branches and interest group representatives. > - Maintain strong relationships and effective communications to understand the priorities of constituents, advocacy groups, employers, state and local officials, and other important stakeholders in the district. > - Weekly travel between Washington and their district as well as substantial time spent in travel to and participation in events throughout the state/district. > > To me, that’s a senior executive position. 170K seems cheap. What about Madison Cawthorne? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/43 "2022-06-01T02:17:35Z")
> [@naita](#): > > What about Madison Cawthorne? What about him? He was hired at a salary based on his expected duties. He failed to perform those duties to his superiors’ satisfaction and was terminated. Happens every day. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/44 "2022-06-01T02:48:23Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I like politicians who don’t prefer to enable the rich capitalism-ing us “back” to peons and hereditary nobility. Where do you find them among the millionaires (or those from millionaire families) who are about 99% of those who can afford to take such a small salary in a high executive position in their 50s? $170,000 is far below the salary of the head of a middling social agency in an average “flyover” city. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/45 "2022-06-01T09:39:09Z")
To be clear here, you think it’s a problem that only millionaires are in public office, and your proposed solution is to pay anyone who is elected enough that they will become a millionaire almost immediately. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/46 "2022-06-01T09:44:10Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Of course, that was a homogenous cultural society on a small scale with no outside influence or conflict prior to the events of the story. Or … [ancient Athens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition). > [@DrDeth](#): > > Again, this would leave only millionaires. Remember, you have to rent a 2nd home in an expensive market, and there are many other expenses. Here, housing for parliamentarians is provided in a dedicating housing estate. And expenses incurred while doing government work should be reimbursed to the office, not the politicians themselves. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/47 "2022-06-01T14:15:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Where do you find them among the millionaires (or those from millionaire families) who are about 99% of those who can afford to take such a small salary in a high executive position in their 50s? $170,000 is far below the salary of the head of a middling social agency in an average “flyover” city. There’s something really sick about a country where people can’t “afford” to take a salary several times above the median in a country. If I had the right to vote in the US I’d pinch my nose and vote for the most worker friendly option (judge by voting record if possible). But **this thread** is about someone **actually elected** , so there it appears I’d be able to find someone palatable to vote for, as I can in Norway, where I can still vote in national elections. One of the reasons I think the US will keep the pedal to the metal all the way off the cliff is this idea that the terrible features of your legislature are necessary features, and not the result of years and years of deliberate choices by the rich to continue enriching themselves and their peers. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/48 "2022-06-01T16:02:05Z")
A big difference between the private sector and elected officialdom is that in elections, people can make the jump to “senior management” with mostly cosmetic vetting, and potentially no relevant technical experience. [does that happen at companies? sure. is it common? not where I’ve worked] I do wonder about perhaps scaling salaries as people get more experience in the role - it’s weird to me that a new legislator makes the same as someone with a lot of experience/knowledge (putting aside that some positions, like Majority Leader, get extra money). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/49 "2022-06-01T16:11:40Z")
Millionaires in wealth - as virtually all in Congress are - and high salaried individuals are two different categories. Discussions about inequality in America have made this distinction regularly. Maybe applying the understanding to Congress will help it get understood more widely. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/50 "2022-06-01T17:05:34Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Then I gather that you are okay with paying politicians a reasonable wage - enough, say, to afford a move to DC and home when the term or two is up Why would an Australian MP want to move to D.C.? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/51 "2022-06-01T17:08:48Z")
> [@naita](#): > > There’s something really sick about a country where people can’t “afford” to take a salary several times above the median in a country. Some of it is about what “afford” really means - but some of it is also about the specifics of the job, which may well be different in other countries. A Senator/ Representative is paid $174K according to the most recent numbers I found. They have to have somewhere to live in Washington and maintain a home in their district. I recall at the beginning of the pandemic that a 100 or so politicians slept in their office in Washington because the going rate for a 1BR apt was about $2K - which should be affordable on $174K, but maybe not if you are also maintaining a home for your family in your district in NYC or San Francisco. If they didn’t have to maintain a home in their district or there was some sort of housing provided when they were in DC, this piece would be different. But can’t “afford” might really mean “it’s not worth it”. Let’s say I live in NYC and earn about $130K a year in a job where I go home to my family every night and have weekends free. I might decide to run for my City Council , which pays $148K and has me home every night - but if I decide to run for Congress, I will not be financially better off, because although my salary will go up to $174K , an increase of $44K, I will have to spend some of it on a place in DC and some will go to taxes. My quality of life will be decreased, as I will no longer be home every night. Maybe I won’t be able to save enough to send my kids to college. So why would I do it ? I wouldn’t unless I was seeking some benefit other than the salary (which often has problems of its own) So there’s a fairly large group of people who will never consider running , those in the middle where $174K is not a whole lot more than they area already making. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/52 "2022-06-01T17:42:19Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Why would an Australian MP want to move to D.C.? Silly me, I thought @Roger_That, to whom my remarks were addressed, was American. Substitute “Canberra” for DC if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/53 "2022-06-01T17:43:52Z")
I guess my question is whether the base salary of AU$211k is reasonable. I found a history of the federal MP salary here: > **[The base salary for senators and members: 2020 update](https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1920/BaseSalary2019)** > > th\[align="right"\], td\[align="right"\] { text-align:right !important; } > th\[align="center"\], td\[align="center"\] { text-align:center !important; } > .annual-allow { background-color: #fde9d9; } > .total-avg { background-color: #daeef3; } > .ratio-allow {... > The [_Parliamentary Business Resources Act 2017_](https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2017A00037) _(PBR Act)_ and the [_Parliamentary Business Resources_](https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2017A00038) [_(Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Act 2017_](https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2017A00038) _(PBR (CTP) Act)_ received Royal Assent on 19 May 2017 and commenced 1 January 2018. The _PBR Act_ establishes the new parliamentary work expenses framework. It is a principles-based framework to cover parliamentarians’ work expenses, requiring that the dominant purpose be parliamentary business for any expense claimed and an overriding principle of value-for-money for the Commonwealth. The above linked website also has a table showing how the ratio of MP’s salaries to average wages has gone from 2.3:1 to 3.5:1 after four decades. Contrast with you know, executive salaries in general which are now [well over 300:1](https://youtu.be/3yBfWz2bSOQ?t=106). You can also read the [2017 report](https://www.remtribunal.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-01/2017%20Annual%20Review%20Statement%2022%20June%202017.pdf) on the specific justification for the pay scheme used. Overall I think their pay scheme is comparable to the U.S., with AU$211k versus [US$174k](https://pressgallery.house.gov/member-data/salaries). U.S. Representatives and Senators [can also qualify for an old age pension](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL30631.pdf) if they serve at least five years, while Australian MPs seem to have a pension program described [here](https://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary_departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/1011/superannuationbenefits). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/54 "2022-06-01T19:52:10Z")
Can you point to other places where that distinction is drawn, and quantify exactly what the difference is? Genuinely curious. Incumbents win re-election like 90% of the time, and the average term in office is something like 10 years, so the vast majority would be millionaires by wealth as I see it, but maybe not in the sense you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/55 "2022-06-01T20:04:13Z")
$174K is an immediate Millionaire? After taxes that would take at least a decade to get to a million. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/56 "2022-06-01T20:47:58Z")
Ok, so a Congressperson gets $174K and let’s say they’ve been in office 10 years. They’ve earned 1.7 million over that 10 years - but out of that 1.7 million , they’ve paid taxes and living expenses which almost certainly accounted for over a million of the earnings. Typically, the definition of a millionaire is someone who has a million dollars in assets excluding their primary residence - but even if you included the value of a primary residence a Congressional salary isn’t going to get anyone there quickly. Not unless they were very close before being elected. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/57 "2022-06-01T21:17:30Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Can you point to other places where that distinction is drawn, and quantify exactly what the difference is? Genuinely curious. Putting difference between wealth and income in Google generates about 211,000,000 hits so you could do that and satisfy your curiosity for weeks. I hardly know where to start. Assuming you’re asking about the U.S., this article by Pew Research has, um, a wealth of statistics. > **[Chapter 7: Income and Wealth, by Income Tier](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2012/08/22/chapter-7-income-and-wealth-by-income-tier/)** > > Overview This chapter examines trends in the well-being of lower-, middle- and upper-income groups through the prisms of income and wealth. Income is the As for wealth inequality, here’s one from the top, the St. Louis Fed. [https://www.stlouisfed.org/open-vault/2019/august/wealth-inequality-in-america-facts-figures](https://www.stlouisfed.org/open-vault/2019/august/wealth-inequality-in-america-facts-figures) ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/58 "2022-06-01T21:37:59Z")
You agreed with Exapno\_Mapcase that the people running the country should make more than the minimum major league baseball contract of $700,000 per year. Even with a term of two years, yes, winning an election would make someone a millionaire. > [@doreen](#): > > Ok, so a Congressperson gets $174K and let’s say they’ve been in office 10 years. They’ve earned 1.7 million over that 10 years - but out of that 1.7 million , they’ve paid taxes and living expenses which almost certainly accounted for over a million of the earnings. We are not discussing the current pay of elected representatives. We are discussing Exapno\_Mapcase and DrDeth proposal that we raise their wage to **at least** $700,000 a year, if not more. So 7 million in ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/59 "2022-06-01T22:18:56Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > So 7 million in ten years. Gross is not net. After taxes and expenses, the net value of a Congressional salary over ten years is sure to be negative. What happens annually is that a large number of representatives leave to join law firms or lobbying groups or take other jobs that pay way more than a mere $700,000 a year. I’ve never made $700,000 a year, but I know what real world salaries are like and I know - and so would you if you had taken any time to read the cites that you asked for - that the upper end of the salary range is way above that figure. You can debate whether anyone is worth that salary. Well, not with me because I wouldn’t waste the time. But arguing that serving in Congress isn’t worth the salary of a 20-year-old rookie ballplayer is beyond comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376/60 "2022-06-02T05:14:20Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > You agreed with Exapno\_Mapcase that the people running the country should make more than the minimum major league baseball contract of $700,000 per year. Not really. I agreed that people running the country should make more starting baseball player. However, they are paid about 4 times too much as in all professional sports. Sorry for any confusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/29-year-old-incoming-australian-mp-shows-his-naivety/965376.md?page=2)