# 3-15 Dem Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 16, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552 "2020-03-16T00:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/61 "2020-03-16T01:54:32Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > Numbers don’t lie. > > The turn-out argument has flipped on its head. Yes, that has weakened my argument that Sanders has more excitement behind him. I still prefer Sanders, but not as strongly as before. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/62 "2020-03-16T01:56:44Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Time to mix it up. > > “So, here’s the thing…” That’s trademarked to Elizabeth Warren. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/63 "2020-03-16T01:59:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We live in a democracy. When you say you’re going to throw tens of thousands of people out of work on your first day of office, people tend not to vote for that guy. You can’t save the environment if you can’t get elected in the first place. One place Clinton lost in 2016 was tell coal miners she would start re-training programs so they could get jobs installing wind mills and solar and what not. Trump told them he’d save their jobs. They voted Trump. And then Trump did not save their jobs and they are screwed. I’d bet Sanders would work to find a road to other employment for fracking workers. It’s not really his style to just kick people to the curb. Yet people keep voting for the people who do kick them to the curb because they tell them a comfortable lie. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/64 "2020-03-16T01:59:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They’ve both been in politics for 30 years or more. > > [Biden’s legislative record is disastrous.](https://harpers.org/archive/2019/03/joe-biden-record/) He keeps touting his liberal chops but, in practice, Biden has been much closer to conservatives in character than a liberal. Please quit trotting out your unsourced, uncited Harper’s Magazine opinion hit piece as some sort of “evidence” about Biden’s record. It’s as correct about Biden’s record as you were about how Bernie was going to mop the floor with Biden in the Democratic primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/65 "2020-03-16T02:00:52Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > That’s trademarked to Elizabeth Warren. Exactly. For Joe, it’s “Here’s the deal!” Also, “I really mean that!” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/66 "2020-03-16T02:01:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Biden definitely held serve. No sign of mental decline. I do admire Bernie for his adherence to his beliefs, but he had his last chance and it’s over. Yup. Sanders is done. He did fine but Biden did too. I did not see anything here that would tip the balance one way or another for either of them. If that is the case then Biden will take the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/67 "2020-03-16T02:04:42Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Please quit trotting out your unsourced, uncited Harper’s Magazine opinion hit piece as some sort of “evidence” about Biden’s record. It’s as correct about Biden’s record as you were about how Bernie was going to mop the floor with Biden in the Democratic primaries. Unsourced? It is, literally, Biden’s legislative record. How more “sourced” can you get than that? If you think the article made a claim that is untrue you can certainly show us where it got it totally wrong and discredit it. We know what an ad hominem attack is around here. And where did I say Sanders would “mop the floor” with Biden in the primaries? I hoped he would. I really thought Sanders would do better with the black community than he did (I am still mystified by that one). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/68 "2020-03-16T02:07:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They’ve both been in politics for 30 years or more. > > [Biden’s legislative record is disastrous.](https://harpers.org/archive/2019/03/joe-biden-record/) He keeps touting his liberal chops but, in practice, Biden has been much closer to conservatives in character than a liberal. Indeed. Bernie had him on the ropes, but let him off because of Biden’s nice retort about Bernie’s gun record. Bernie is the real deal if you support the 2020 Dem platform. He has always been there. Back in the 1990s when only crazy people (and I guess gay people) supported gay marriage? Bernie was there. He has that going for him. But it is not enough. I truly admire Bernie’s convictions although I could not disagree with them more and think they are dangerous. I think people of consistent convictions and put themselves on the line should be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/69 "2020-03-16T02:07:29Z")
I thought both did well tonight. I thought the format was unusually satisfactory for a debate. I liked the variety of questions and the way they more-or-less held each of them to time limits. I am frankly impressed with how Bernie manages to keep moving the conversation and the Democratic platform further and further to the left. Every second he stays in the race, it moves a tiny bit to the left. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/70 "2020-03-16T02:11:30Z")
I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/71 "2020-03-16T02:21:11Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some. Overall I agree. My problem is Biden’s history has not been very liberal and him telling us all the cool liberal things he will do when president doesn’t jibe well with the man he has been in politics for 30+ years. I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he’d be different and be great. Instead he was “meh.” I think Biden will fall short of Obama. Better than Trump but then who isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/72 "2020-03-16T02:35:25Z")
Biden picks a woman is all that will be remembered. When you have candidates as old as both of them, they’re going to have a bunch of statements and votes that won’t fly in 2020. I wish they both would have sat this out, but Trump needs to go and with city shutdowns and falling markets, all that will be remembered is that Biden is picking a woman VP. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/73 "2020-03-16T02:35:21Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some. Yep. Put a fork in it. This primary is done. It’s all over but the bitching and moaning. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/74 "2020-03-16T02:42:41Z")
I’d bet my next paycheck Biden and Kamala already made a deal for VP. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/75 "2020-03-16T02:49:18Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I’d bet my next paycheck Biden and Kamala already made a deal for VP. Hmmm…you might try hitting up [**FlikTheBlue**](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22191457&postcount=50). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/76 "2020-03-16T02:51:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > One place Clinton lost in 2016 was tell coal miners she would start re-training programs so they could get jobs installing wind mills and solar and what not. > > Trump told them he’d save their jobs. They voted Trump. > > And then Trump did not save their jobs and they are screwed. > > I’d bet Sanders would work to find a road to other employment for fracking workers. It’s not really his style to just kick people to the curb. > > Yet people keep voting for the people who do kick them to the curb because they tell them a comfortable lie. Right, Sanders is going to find them jobs. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/77 "2020-03-16T02:54:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he’d be different and be great. Instead he was “meh.” I remember a lot of voters - young voters in particular - who voted for hope and change, got change, and…sat out during the mid-terms. And we’ve been dealing with Mitch McConnell ever since. Presidents can’t change the world by themselves, and their fanboy supporters have to understand that and live in that world, not Sim City. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/78 "2020-03-16T03:00:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he’d be different and be great. Instead he was “meh.” I remember Obama using all his political capital to get the ACA passed by a total of five votes in the House, and with Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson in the Senate threatening to vote against it unless it was watered down. For his efforts, the Republicans won a majority of the House in 2010, and enough seats in the Senate to block anything the Democrats could pass. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/79 "2020-03-16T03:09:40Z")
Looking forward to seeing Biden call trump a “lying dog-faced pony soldier”. And then correcting it to account for the inaccuracy of calling him any kind of soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552/80 "2020-03-16T03:18:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In > Back in the 1990s when only crazy people (and I guess gay people) supported gay marriage? Bernie was there. He has that going for him. > … You might find this article interesting: [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/us/politics/as-gay-rights-ally-bernie-sanders-wasnt-always-in-vanguard.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/us/politics/as-gay-rights-ally-bernie-sanders-wasnt-always-in-vanguard.html). TL;DR: It really wasn’t until 2009 that Sanders actually got around to supporting marriage equality. His vote on DOMA was on states’ rights grounds; he was “supportive but not very present” w/regard to gay issues through the 1990s and early 2000s; in 2006, asked if he supported marriage equality after VT got civil unions, he said, “Not now.” Clearly his record on gay rights is a good one. But it’s not as good as he’d have you believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-15-dem-debate/849552.md?page=5)