# 3 reasons I can't be truly happy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274 "2007-08-03T12:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/41 "2007-08-03T17:23:13Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Sounds good, I’ll use drugs to distract myself from reality. [/QUOTE] That’s not actually how antidepressants work. Consider this. The “reality” you experience is not, in fact, Reality. It’s merely a simulacrum constructed from sensory data to allow your behavior to anticipate local fluctuations in the state of the universe. Your particular internal simulacrum is not privileged in any way. It is neither optimal nor infallible. It’s an evolutionary hodgepodge thrown together to help you survive as a social ape on the African savannah. Antidepressants don’t “distract you from reality”. They change your brain chemistry so the “reality” you perceive becomes (hopefully) more useful for day to day existence in the modern world. But neither “reality” is inherently more Real. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/42 "2007-08-03T17:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Pardon my acronyms, it’s a quirk of mine. [/QUOTE] As quirks go, that’s pretty mild. As far as your suffering, I’ve no real help to offer other than an open invitation to cocktails if you find yourself in the Pittsburgh area. Hey, it works for me. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/43 "2007-08-03T18:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] It must be nice being you. You know, ignorance is bliss. 😉 No offense, but there is no ‘god’ or ‘afterlife’. Absolutely all evidence points to the fact that when the brain dies, the consciousness program dies with it. Now I"m sure you’ll tell me about how the body gets 2 ounces lighter at death, huh? :smack: [/QUOTE] No, I wasn’t going to tell you that at all? The research is a little more exact than that. Here is a tiny part of it, if it seems interesting to you I will provide the link, your call. And yeah, it is nice being me. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Pim Van Lommel’s well-known research study published in The Lancet, a leading medical journal, also notes that cerebral activity flatlines within 4 to 20 seconds of cardiac arrest. > > “How could a clear consciousness outside one’s body be experienced at the moment that the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death with flat EEG? . . . Furthermore, blind people have described veridical perception during out-of-body experiences at the time of this experience. NDE pushes at the limits of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind-brain relation. In our prospective study of patients that were clinically dead (flat EEG, showing no electrical activity in the cortex and loss of brain stem function evidenced by fixed dilated pupils and absence of the gag reflex) the patients report a clear consciousness, in which cognitive functioning, emotion, sense of identity, or memory from early childhood occurred, as well as perceptions from a position out and above their ‘dead’ body.” (Van Lommel, Van Wees, Meyers, Elfferich (2001). Near-Death Experience in Survivors of Cardiac Arrest: A Prospective Study in the Netherlands. Lancet.) ---
**Author:** ![zelie\_zelerton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/59ef9b/32.png) [@zelie\_zelerton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zelie_zelerton)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/44 "2007-08-03T18:17:36Z")
Those aren’t acronyms. They are abbreviations. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/45 "2007-08-03T18:21:09Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] Those aren’t acronyms. They are abbreviations. [/QUOTE] Don’t you think he has suffered enough? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/46 "2007-08-03T18:31:00Z")
I’m an atheist and while some people think that to be sad, I think it makes you really appreciate life, I know that this is my one shot so I might as well make the most of it and live my life to the fullest. If you really feel so bad maybe you should do some volunteer work or something. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/47 "2007-08-03T18:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Anyways: the three reasons I can’t be happy are 1.) The Suffering of the Good (SOTG) 2.) the Prospering of the Bad (POTB) 3.) In the end, we all die forever [/QUOTE] Then let us die forever!! They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom! ---
**Author:** ![xkcd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/5f9b8f/32.png) [@xkcd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xkcd)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/48 "2007-08-03T18:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] Those aren’t acronyms. They are abbreviations. [/QUOTE] Uh, pretty sure you’re wrong there. ---
**Author:** ![xkcd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/5f9b8f/32.png) [@xkcd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xkcd)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/49 "2007-08-03T18:44:38Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] No, I wasn’t going to tell you that at all? The research is a little more exact than that. Here is a tiny part of it, if it seems interesting to you I will provide the link, your call. And yeah, it is nice being me. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Desparate people can find ‘evidence’ of eternal life/god anywhere, especially in the vagueness of fields of science like neurobiology. That’s what you’ve done. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/50 "2007-08-03T18:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=pool] I’m an atheist and while some people think that to be sad, I think it makes you really appreciate life, I know that this is my one shot so I might as well make the most of it and live my life to the fullest. If you really feel so bad maybe you should do some volunteer work or something. [/QUOTE] That would work, helping others with their problems keeps your mind off of yours. I don’t think it sad to be an atheist. Which is better/worse, having no hope of anything after death, or being afraid you may go to hell as a fundamental. I don’t really like either choice. I have always wanted to ask this question: how did you become so certain there is nothing after death? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/51 "2007-08-03T18:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Desparate people can find ‘evidence’ of eternal life/god anywhere, especially in the vagueness of fields of science like neurobiology. That’s what you’ve done. [/QUOTE] Ok, so you are sure you are right. Good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/52 "2007-08-03T18:58:39Z")
1. SotG: Either care less or do more, or some combination. If you go the ‘care less’ route, your worries about this will vanish but nobody will be very impressed with you; on the other hand if you go whole-hog with contributions and donations and volunteering then you’ll be very busy and rather poor but you’ll probably feel good about yourself and impress others too. Most people seen to get by being somewhere in the middle, donating and helping some but the rest of the time mostly not worrying all that much about it. 1. PotB Vote for people who seem less corrupt, and more likely to sow good than evil. Support your police force. (Possibly _join_ your police force, if you’re into that.) And keep in mind that God or not, they _will_ die; whatever harm they’re doing or undeserved benefits they’re enjoying will inevitably come to an end. If you outlive them you’ll can even do the happy dance upon hearing about it. 1. ITEWADF Why should death bother you? After death it’s over, there’s nothing. (Or, with a token nod to unfalsifiability, if there _is_ something after you can deal with it then; there’s no sense worrying about it now.) For myself I worry more about pain than death; and I worry more about enjoying the moment than about the limited quantity of moments to come. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/53 "2007-08-03T21:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] I can’t be truly happy until a good god (obviously that doesn’t refer to Yahweh or Allah) flies down to earth, destroys the ‘bad’ people and makes the world into a paradise where all the ‘good’ people live forever with no pain and death. Is that too much to ask? [/quote] Yes. A divinity so inclined would already have done so; or more sensibly would have made the world and people better in the first place. A god that would up after all this time would be evil or a lunatic, like Jehovah/Allah/etc. [QUOTE=xkcd] I disagree with the old adage that ‘without suffering, there’d be no happiness’ (or, replace suffering with ugliness and happiness with beauty). We find certain things pleasurable (or beautiful) b/c of how we’ve evolved, not b/c we compare them subconsciously with suffering (or ugliness). If I see a woman with big breasts and a perfect hip to waist ration, I find her beautiful not b/c I’m subconsciously comparing her to ugly women i’ve seen, but b/c my evolved instincts say she’s pretty. In a paradise, we would enjoy things just as much w/o suffering, even more in fact. That’s my argument. [/QUOTE] I agree. The “without evil we can’t recognize good” argument is just an attempt to make a virtue out of necessity. And even if it was true, so what ? If not knowing about evil is the price for living in a world without evil ( not that I think that’s possible ), so what ? [QUOTE=xkcd] ‘God’ is a ridiculous mythology (albeit a desirable one) [/QUOTE] Why ? Why would we want to grovel before some supernatural egotist ? [QUOTE=xkcd] Science can’t ever truly conquer death and suffering. The only way it could happen w/o a supernatural being would be if science _did_ complete conquer all death and suffering, and then we instituted laws saying that all crappy people will be killed. [/QUOTE] How do you know ? Eventually, science can probably come close enough. And why not upgrade people if we have the technology ( assuming they want it ), instead of killing them ? Science can’t do that NOW, of course, but “ever” is a very long time. [QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] My theory is that you’re a theist who’s trying some sort of reverse psychology to try and get the atheists here to admit to…something. I’m not sure what, but good luck with all that. [/QUOTE] Or the kind of “atheist” who’s actually a disappointed theist, and just looking for some excuse to “regain his faith and come back into the fold.” [QUOTE=Marley23] Well, yes, because it’s helpless and childish. Even people who believe in an active God who will do those sorts of things don’t believe you should be sitting around, unable to feel happiness until that takes place. [/quote] Actually, some do. The sort of people who sue school libraries to remove _The Wizard of Oz_ because Dorothy solves her own problems instead of having faith that god will do so ( perhaps they should have faith that God will get rid of _The Wizard of Oz_, eh ? ). Or who blame sickness on a lack of faith or sin. Or who think that you get rich by being devoted to Jesus enough. [QUOTE=lekatt] I have always wanted to ask this question: how did you become so certain there is nothing after death? [/QUOTE] Because all the evidence leans that way. And yes, I know about your silly NDE fixation, which gets torn to shreds every time you bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/54 "2007-08-03T21:24:42Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Why ? Why would we want to grovel before some supernatural egotist ? [/QUOTE] Oh, come now, this isn’t so hard. “Saved” people are typically _defined_ to end up in heaven, happy, forever, with all sorts of perks and rewards. And if you can’t detect any moral problems with supporting His Judgementalness, what reason could you have to turn down that temptation? Why, I myself have occasionally wished I lacked the attributes that prevent me from living a simple, happy, and possibly vapid existence, hoping for a blessed future that I would be certain would come. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/55 "2007-08-03T21:34:16Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Oh, come now, this isn’t so hard. “Saved” people are typically _defined_ to end up in heaven, happy, forever, with all sorts of perks and rewards. [/QUOTE] First, I don’t buy that that’s what would happen. I don’t think spending billions of years praising God would be nearly as much fun as the believers think. Second, as someone once said, “happiness alone is only enough if you are a cow”; I have no desire whatsoever to end up a lobotomized praise machine, happy or not. And without getting their minds screwed over the believers would just bring their problems with them, and NOT be happy forever. And third, God as typically portrayed would never create a heaven worth the name; he’d be more likely to throw everyone into Hell, believers and all, just so he can watch us scream. And fourth, I don’t like grovelling for any reason; I find worship disgusting in itself, and would even if there was a God. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/56 "2007-08-03T21:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Uh, pretty sure you’re wrong there. [/QUOTE] I don’t think so - but it depends. If you pronounce SOTG and POTB as “Sottug” and “pottub”, or something like that, then they’re acronymns, otherwise, they’re abbreviations. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/57 "2007-08-03T21:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] First, I don’t buy that that’s what would happen. I don’t think spending billions of years praising God would be nearly as much fun as the believers think. Second, as someone once said, “happiness alone is only enough if you are a cow”; I have no desire whatsoever to end up a lobotomized praise machine, happy or not. And without getting their minds screwed over the believers would just bring their problems with them, and NOT be happy forever. And third, God as typically portrayed would never create a heaven worth them name; he’d be more likely to throw everyone into Hell, believers and all, just so he can watch us scream. And fourth, I don’t like grovelling for any reason; I find worship disgusting in itself, and would even if there was a God. [/QUOTE] First, if mind-altering drugs can do it, God can do it better. Eternal happiness, no side effects, no complaints about the management, no pesky exersizes of free will. Easy! Second, this desire of yours is a personal problem, which I happen to share; there are those that don’t have it. Third, there is no evidence whatsoever that the biblical or christian God doesn’t like sycophants. Sure, cross him to the slightest degree and he stomps on you hard, but based on scripture there is no reason to believe that he will roast those who meet the entry requirements and stay steadfastly and obediently in his servitude. Fourth, this dislike of yours is a personal problem, which I happen to share; there are those that don’t have it. I think you are falling into the trap of projecting your own attributes onto others, which I find a little suprising. I think if you stop doing that, you can _understand_ how a person with the right mindset might see benefit in following god, even if (like me) you don’t _agree_ with it and don’t have the attributes necessary to tolerate such a belief yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/58 "2007-08-03T21:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=xkcd] Now I"m sure you’ll tell me about how the body gets 2 ounces lighter at death, huh? :smack: [/QUOTE] Oy mate, you’ve played knifey/spoony before, 'aven’t you! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/59 "2007-08-03T21:56:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I don’t think so - but it depends. If you pronounce SOTG and POTB as “Sottug” and “pottub”, or something like that, then they’re acronymns, otherwise, they’re abbreviations. [/QUOTE] According to [merriam-webster](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/acronym), abbreviations composed of initial letters are also acronyms, regardless of pronunciation. (FBI is given as an example.) ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274/60 "2007-08-03T22:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=LCD] It must be nice being you. You know, ignorance is bliss. 😉 No offense, but there is no ‘god’ or ‘afterlife’. Absolutely all evidence points to the fact that when the brain dies, the consciousness program dies with it. Now I"m sure you’ll tell me about how the body gets 2 ounces lighter at death, huh? :smack: [/QUOTE] Well I wouldn’t judge him so harshly if I were you. Like others have said, in this thread, if you wan’t to effect change _you_ must do it. If seeing the suffering of others touches you. Do something. **lekatt** is a good example. I may not agree with everything he says but he is trying to make a difference. Visit his website and you can see for yourself. He can’t change the world by himself. Each of us must make the effort to see that good prevails. Don’t worry about your death. Concentrate on your life while your alive to do something about injustice in the world and even if there is nothing I promise you that when you leave this place _you will know_ if you did anything worthwhile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3-reasons-i-cant-be-truly-happy/414274.md?page=4)