Probably not. I’ve seen fist fights, it’s not something you can just walk into and start pulling people away from. Maybe, maybe if I had some extra people to help me, but me against 3 guys, sorry, I’m not sure what I’m going to do. But me getting beat up too isn’t going to help anything.
If I was armed, probably still not. What, point the gun at them and then I have to deal with three bad guys that know I have a gun? Sorry, it’s staying safely concealed unless they come after me, but my hand would probably be on it. One of the things they taught us in my CCL class was never to walk into a situation with a gun that you wouldn’t walk into without one. The example he used was that if you’re at the gas station pumping gas and you see it getting held up, just drive away, don’t walk in and be a hero. Same here, pulling out your gun might stop the fight or it might get you killed. Now, if the three guys finish up with her and come after you, that’s different.
So, yeah, if I could get a whole bunch of other people to help be stop the attack, yeah, I think I’d jump in and do what I could. But going alone against three people with enough nerve to attack someone, probably not.
Come to think of it, though, if I had pepper spray, I could see unloading that on them and chances are, once one person does it, others would as well.
I would never just sit there and watch that woman be harassed. I would probably take some punches, but I’m sure I’d survive and heal. If I had a gun, I might point it at them, but I wouldn’t shoot them, not in this situation.
If it was 2-3 women attacking another woman, I’m pretty confident I would be able to physically overwhelm them as I’m not that tall but I’m pretty solid and strong, I would try to quicky attemp to deliver devastating blows to their soft areas like face or neck or dislocate their knees or something.
If it’s two or three guys that is a much more dangerous prospect and I would have to accept the fact that if I’m alone I’m going to get hurt, possibly very badly. But if it’s some truly helpless victim I would probably grudgingly attempt to intervene but I wouldn’t bother trying to diffuse the situation I would want to at least catch them somewhat off guard and hopefully I have some sort of object nearby I could use as a weapon that maybe after 2 or 3 devastating blows if you could do it as fast as possible would dissuade them enough to back off.
In reality it’s probably still a losing situation but maybe if other passengers saw that they might try to help at that point. It is possible sometimes, I got jumped by 4-5 guys once that were heavily intoxicated and when I turned around I hit the ringleader with a bottle and I’m pretty sure I broke his wrist and I was screaming like a crazy psycho when I did this and all of them did seem quite frightened when I did this and they backed off long enough that I was able to run away.
If I had a gun everythibg obviously changes. I wouldn’t shoot first but I would warn them to stop immediately or I would shoot and if they continued harming the victim or approached me aggressively, I would shoot the first guy, trying not to kill them but just inflict a non life threatening wound and they would probably be enough to make them all stop.
Reality is not like real life and one person is probably not going to beat 2-3 guys in a fight unless they’re just some crazy badass motherfucker and even then probably only if you get lucky.
I don’t think I could respect myself in the morning though if I didn’t at least try to help the victim if they are truly getting beaten to a pulp.
Wow. It’s really eye-opening looking at the different perspectives that some of these responses are coming from … that is, people whose major worry is that they might be too successful at physical intervention, and get into trouble for it.
It is not a concern that I would ever have. The assumption is pretty much built into my bones that anyone who is a)a male human over 15 or b)a female human experienced enough in altercations to choose to provoke violence in a public place, could probably turn me into tomato paste with a couple of well-placed blows.
I would hope I’d at least pull out a phone and call emergency. But I don’t think I could offer a good deal more to a person getting beaten up than a fellow-target to absorb some of the blows.
I have physically intervened in two situations in which I saw helpless creatures (once a mother and baby y, the other time a small dog) being attacked. I have also played the coward at least twice, when no one was at risk but me. Damned if I know the reason I stepped up when i did or played the coward when I did.
Nothing in her situation justifies deadly force unless it escalates. Even then it would be hard to clear the field of fire behind the target on a train. Aside from near misses bullets can go through people.
There’s a whole host of options, before less than deadly force, that still count as intervention. I don’t know if I would have intervened early. It can be easy to rationalize quite a bit away. At the point of her screaming at the top of her lungs, I’m pretty sure I’m doing something.
I don’t know, I’m getting older now. When I was younger, I didn’t think of the consequence of my actions as much and intervened in situations which may give me pause now. One time was when a boyfriend was physically preventing his girlfriend from going into the Shibuya train station in Tokyo. I got in between and let the girl get away.
Slightly overweight middle age men just don’t as menacing so the chance of bluffing would be less. However, it does sound like the assailants were girls so maybe it would work. Donno. At least calling for help would be better than nothing.
In the Sutherland case, when the assailant has a knife and is stabbing someone, calling for help definitely seems to be the better option. An article on the case says that people are more likely to join in with others who are helping rather than be the lead one. I can see that. I have practically zero martial arts training so playing hero would likely get me hurt.
There was a guy last year who stabbed random peopleon the Taipei metro system, killing four and wounding another 24. Finally, a number of passengers held him off with their umbrellas.
Very hard to say how I’d react. I’d like to hope I’d be a hero and intervene and help her, but I honestly could just as easily see myself freezing up. Not that this makes me an expert or anything, but I ride the subway in the Bronx every day, and work w/High School special ed kids with alot of behavior issues. I jump in and break up fights at work, but that’s different, you know the cavalry will get there soon. On the train you don’t know when help will arrive. I’m not aware of an emergency call button on NYC subways like on the DC system, and the conductor may be several cars away in his booth. You can pull the emergency brake, but that’s not recommended and could hinder help arriving. You pretty much have to wait for the next stop and get out & hope you can find help, in many cases, which takes time. Truthfully, at least in my experience, a group of teenage girls can be just as dangerous as boys, if not more so. Seems like the girls just never stop once they get started. Throw in alcohol, drugs, mental illness, and or a weapon, & it gets even more dicey. You could get seriously effed up if you jump in and no one else jumps in with you, not that that excuses not helping somehow.The kids I work with show me videos from some websites called something along the lines of Subway Fights, Fights on the 6 Train, and so forth, if you want to look. Sometimes they’re in them, or claim to know someone in them, & it gets pretty vicious. The cops do a great job, and NYC has gotten alot safer, but they can’t be everywhere, and the subway system is enormous.
Have no idea how I’d react if armed, I’ve never carried, and would be basing my response on Clint Eastwood movies! :smack:
Btw, sorry if I missed anyone else bringing it up, but the woman who wrote this references a guy who was murdered by a kid with a knife on the DC system, where again, no one intervened.
I’m remember the tough time a McDonald’s employee got when a woman attacked him at work. He retreated further behind the counter and she pursued him whereupon he picked up a metal stick of some kind and smacked her with it. The dude ended up losing his job and an awful lot of people seemed to think he was at fault there for some reason. This despite camera evidence showing that he didn’t initiate the attack and he retreated before finally resorting to force. Had his attackers been male I don’t think anyone would have given the guy a hard time.
If I were on the train I don’t think I would have done anything against the girls. I can’t help but think that it’d place me in a horrible position where both the law and public opinion would come down hard on me. If they were boys or young men? I don’t know. I’d be more afraid of the law, either criminal or civil, coming down on me than I would of physical harm to myself.
I’ve seen it in action, and deployed my pepper spray on two guys assaulting a third on the train. I had to push through a crowd of people actively retreating in order to do it. On my way, I pointed at a young man and told him to push the call button and tell the train operator what was happening. (I knew if no one called, the train wouldn’t remain stopped at the next station - hitting the button on the CTA trains in Chicago, pushes the relevant camera feed to the operator’s booth so they can see what’s going on.)
The thing with bystander apathy is you have to make people accountable. Yelling “someone help me” results in no one doing anything, they’re all waiting for someone else to step up. Singling out one person and telling them to do what you need, they’ll do it.
It has also come up that apparently a lot of people think pushing that button will cause the operator to stop the train on the spot, and they don’t want the train to stop between stations. I have no idea how that kind of dumb idea came about, but think about that next time you’re on a public transit train. People won’t call the operator for that reason.
One gripe I have about the Chicago trains is that there are two emergency call buttons on the new cars - across from each other. Um, if there’s a problem that makes it unsafe to get to a button to push it, it’s probably unsafe to push the one right across from it, too. They should be on each end of the car. As it is, if I were on the wrong end of the car, I would use the emergency door on the end to switch cars.
I’ve been in a few dicey situations, and I’ve learned about myself that I’m the one who will step forward.
“It has also come up that apparently a lot of people think pushing that button will cause the operator to stop the train on the spot, and they don’t want the train to stop between stations. I have no idea how that kind of dumb idea came about, but think about that next time you’re on a public transit train. People won’t call the operator for that reason.”
If you want to stop the train find the emergency pull cord/ or lever. It’s generally near the doors and “under glass” to keep curious people from touching it. Activate that and the train will stop. and it is not a smooth stop but a quick one. An added plus is that when the attackers realize the railroad police are on the way; they will try to flee. The third rail is usually still energized, and God willing they will inadvertently step on it in the process and save the tax payers some money.
I am armed almost all the time when I’m out and about. IME a gun does no such thing. In a threatening situation it reduces my options to the “nuclear” only. I carry it to defend myself and family only, so I doubt I would use it to help strangers in any conceivable situation. Society (and as a result, Police) seem interested only in punishing those who end fights – not those who start them. Additionally as a white male, the racial/gender/etc land mines surrounding any conflict make me even more determined to avoid and evade.
To the OP’s question, I imagine I’d summon help through whatever means were available, then my next action would be to beat feet.
I don’t know what I’d do. Emergency stop cord, Call 911, film (so they can be caught). If someone else is calling/ filming, possibly try to shout loudly to startle the pack.
If no result I suppose I could try a running charge to try tackle or bowl them over and off of their feet. Still, this is all just supposition. I don’t know what I’d do.
I’d hate to think I’d just sit there and let it happen. I’d also hate to think I was some cold blooded mentally ill methodical killer who could say, “Here’s one for each of you. You don’t look too bad; here’s another.”
