# 30 billion out of medicare ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346 "2009-08-31T13:31:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/1 "2009-08-31T13:31:26Z")
I have to take what Orin Hatch says on CNN seriously. So what is he on about with the Democrats proposing to take thirty billion dollars out of medicare to fund the general health care plan ? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/2 "2009-08-31T13:42:24Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I have to take what Orin Hatch says on CNN seriously. Why? He’s a Republican, and he’s talking about healthcare reform. Republicans just want to kill healthcare reform. They’ve hit it with everything they can think of, and the kitchen sink. To take what one of them says seriously now requires extraordinary evidence of their sincerity. Did Mr. Hatch actually promise to vote _for_ some form of health care reform, or is this just more Republican negativism? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/3 "2009-08-31T22:20:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Why? He’s a Republican, and he’s talking about healthcare reform. Republicans just want to kill healthcare reform. They’ve hit it with everything they can think of, and the kitchen sink. To take what one of them says seriously now requires extraordinary evidence of their sincerity. Did Mr. Hatch actually promise to vote _for_ some form of health care reform, or is this just more Republican negativism? [Moderator note] While the answer to the OP may well be political, I think this response is not appropriate for GQ. Let’s try to first address whether there might be some factual basis for Hatch’s statement. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/4 "2009-08-31T22:44:06Z")
The figures likely come out of the American Health Care Association’s analysis of the bill, which claims that the bill will cut Medicare payments for nursing home care by 32 billion over the next 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/5 "2009-08-31T23:29:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think this response is not appropriate for GQ. Let’s try to first address whether there might be some factual basis for Hatch’s statement. Sorry Colibri, but the automatic assumption of credibilty on the part of Hatch is uncalled for, and needed to be mentioned lest people be lead into the wilderness by false witnessing. Hatch is still a major cheerleader for the failed policies of the past: > [@](#): > > “President Bush knows it that it is tough to lead when you are following the polls . . .,” Hatch told his Senate colleagues. “George W. Bush is not leaving the presidency with chapped fingers from holding them up to the wind.” > > Hatch further lauded the president for fighting global terror, winning in Iraq, reforming Medicare, improving education, safeguarding the sanctity of human life, doubling the production of domestic oil and gas production on public lands, and combating the spread of AIDS, and for many more successes at home and abroad. > > The senator blasted critics for unfairly maligning the president by blaming him for the current economic crisis. He said Congress repeatedly ignored the Bush administration’s warnings about financial trouble to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and about the possible consequences to the financial markets. [Jan 14,2009](http://hatch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.View&PressRelease_id=d77da2e3-1b78-be3e-e0f3-4334ab06b8e7) If Hatch’s number’s have a basis in reality, fine. Given the senator’s record, the assumption should _not_ be that they do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/6 "2009-09-01T01:29:10Z")
I’ve been away all day, but I must say I’m quite disappointed with the lack of substantive response to my question. As a Canadian, I’m a firm supporter of universal health care. It does appear though, to me, that a lot of the opposition to introducing the proposed plan in the US comes from senior citizens worried about medicare. Orin Hatch made that assertion about the proposed cut. Orin Hatch claims to be a close friend of Kennedy, who we well know has long fought for universal health care. If friendship means something, it must be true. So what gives? Are the Democrats willing to take away from senior citizens, or is Hatch simply a fucking two faced liar ? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/7 "2009-09-01T01:43:44Z")
Orin Hatch is a bald faced liar. Not sure why that would surprise you. The proponents of the health care bill want to partly fund the cost of providing coverage by cost savings in Medicaire. Now ordinarily cutting costs would be a good thing, but this is cookoo season. The govt is currently prohibited from negotiating drug price reductions with the pharmaceutical companies. The US is the only country that does this, and it makes one wonder if the priority of many in congress is to protect the pharmaceutical companies rather than help citizens. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/8 "2009-09-01T01:50:18Z")
I’m not sure if this is the answer, but I assume it is, at least in part. EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor act) is the law that mandates that emergency rooms treat everyone. As part of Medicare, the feds kick extra money to hospitals that bear a disproportionate share of EMTALA costs. Presumably, under any universal or near-universal system, the need for EMTALA payouts would severely decrease. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/9 "2009-09-01T03:14:27Z")
He’s not just making it up. It comes from the AHCA’s study, I’m sure of it. However, I’m just finding news releases for the study, and not a copy of the study itself. But all the news releases the AHCA’s put out about the study start: > [@](#): > > A new American Health Care Association analysis of the pending House health reform bill when combined with the impact of a recently-enacted Medicare regulation cutting Medicare-funded nursing home care by $12 billion will result in total cuts of $44 billion over ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/10 "2009-09-01T03:15:09Z")
Given the bad start this has been given, it’s probably best to just move to from GQ to GD. Colibri General Questions ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/11 "2009-09-01T04:08:58Z")
I can’t comment on the truthfulness of Hatch’s allegation, but he was one of the votes in the Senate to support President Bush’s veto of a bill last year that would have cut $12.5 billion from Medicare by reducing the reimbursement rates paid to doctors. [Cite,](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ahquTQ6L1nzo&refer=us) [cite.](http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00177) I’m also not sure what Senator Hatch thought of Bush’s last budget proposal, but it sought to cut Medicare by $91 billion. [Cite.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/washington/31budget.html) Those cuts were rejected by Congress. It is galling to see Republicans try to position themselves as saviors of Medicare, a system that the party, in general, has consistently tried to cut or dismantle under the banner of reform. But again, Hatch’s past record on Medicare has no bearing whatsoever on the truthfulness of his claim. Just because a fool says it is night, does not mean that it is day. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/12 "2009-09-01T04:24:13Z")
Are the Dems feckless, disunited, and uncertain? As a general rule, yes. Are they utterly and entirely batshit crazy, and determined to massively offend, infuriate and insult Medicare recipients and their families, and thereby ensure political ruin? No. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/13 "2009-09-01T09:49:28Z")
Well, how much money could be saved by not buying, say, Hoverounds from Medicare funds? Are there statistics on how many insurance plans (approximately) pay for powered wheelchairs? And after this August, I would be happy to see some offending, infuriating, and insulting of Medicare recipients who don’t like government programs. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/14 "2009-09-01T13:39:00Z")
32 billion over ten years is not the same as 30 billion over one year. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/15 "2009-09-01T15:28:03Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > 32 billion over ten years is not the same as 30 billion over one year. I don’t know whether it is or not, but the question is where he got the numbers from, not if the numbers are right or wrong, right? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/16 "2009-09-01T15:36:40Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Well, how much money could be saved by not buying, say, Hoverounds from Medicare funds? Good point. I don’t think the Hoveround people are doing much good for Medicare when non-recipients see the ads claiming that old folks can get $6200 Hoverounds for free. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/17 "2009-09-01T16:16:38Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > it makes one wonder if the priority of many in congress is to protect the pharmaceutical companies rather than help citizens. That’s an excellent question. And it’s not just Congress, but the [White House](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html) as well ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/18 "2009-09-01T16:25:08Z")
Can the gov’t take money directly out of Medicare to fund other programs? My understanding was that it had its own dedicated tax, so that even if they saved 30 billion by cutting medicare payments, they couldn’t turn around and put that money into the new health program. Plus Medicare will be running a deficit in the near future, so any money saved by cutting expenditures there are unlikely to go towards new programs, but will almost certainly be swallowed by growing costs elsewhere in the program. ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/19 "2009-09-01T17:03:52Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Well, how much money could be saved by not buying, say, Hoverounds from Medicare funds? Are there statistics on how many insurance plans (approximately) pay for powered wheelchairs? I’m curious as to why you are asking this. Do you believe that insurance (Medicare or private) should not pay for powerchairs? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346/20 "2009-09-02T01:31:21Z")
Mediicare overpays big time for durable goods, wheelchairs, walkers, PAP machines etc. I saw a show last week stating at min. 4 x cost a person could buy it for. When attempts were made to allow price shopping the pols voted it down. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-billion-out-of-medicare/508346.md?page=2)