# 30 days for Rape **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 28, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392 "2013-08-28T12:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/41 "2013-08-28T22:39:47Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > The part I can’t understand is how you can say a 14-year-old victim is as much in control of a situation as a 30-year-old offender? I just can’t imagine a scenario, unless you count the movie _ **Wild Things** _. But in that case, the guy wasn’t actually guilty of rape. > > If the judge had left that part out, I wouldn’t be all 😕. There are plenty of 14-year old sociopaths in the world. There are plenty of 30-year olds that are quite naive. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/42 "2013-08-28T22:54:16Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There are plenty of 14-year old sociopaths in the world. There are plenty of 30-year olds that are quite naive. Hoofbeats and all of that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/43 "2013-08-29T01:01:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There are plenty of 14-year old sociopaths in the world. There are plenty of 30-year olds that are quite naive. Naïve??? He was a teacher. He knew the law. He knew her age. He cultivated a relationship with a vulnerable child for an extended period of time. He knew exactly what he was doing. There is a simple rule in teaching that really isn’t that hard to follow, DON"T FUCK THE STUDENTS. And yes I am aware of how pointless it is to engage certain posters on certain issues. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/44 "2013-08-29T08:38:52Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There are plenty of 14-year old sociopaths in the world. I don’t see a 14 year _sociopath_ killing themselves over this like she did. What would be the motivation? Shame? Embarrassment? Not for a sociopath. A sociopath would have been far more likely to kill him than herself. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/45 "2013-08-29T09:58:46Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Naïve??? He was a teacher. He knew the law. He knew her age. He cultivated a relationship with a vulnerable child for an extended period of time. He knew exactly what he was doing. There is a simple rule in teaching that really isn’t that hard to follow, **DON"T FUCK THE STUDENTS**. > > And yes I am aware of how pointless it is to engage certain posters on certain issues. My bolding. Indeed, this seems to be such an obvious rule for teachers who don’t want to risk losing their job, livelihood, family, freedom, self-respect etc. So obvious, in fact, that to break that rule is a bit odd, to say the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/46 "2013-08-29T13:56:20Z")
Well, the good news. Even the judge admits his comments were inappropriate. > [@](#): > > Baugh, 71, wrote an apology Wednesday in a letter to the editor to The Billings Gazette. He said his comments were demeaning to all women and not reflective of his beliefs. > > The judge later told reporters he was “fumbling around” in court trying to explain his sentence and “made some really stupid remarks.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/47 "2013-08-29T18:40:06Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > My bolding. > > Indeed, this seems to be such an obvious rule for teachers who don’t want to risk losing their job, livelihood, family, freedom, self-respect etc. So obvious, in fact, that to break that rule is a bit odd, to say the very least. And yet it happens. And I’ve put a couple of them behind bars. And it certainly isn’t the students fault. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/48 "2013-08-29T19:32:03Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And yet it happens. And I’ve put a couple of them behind bars. And it certainly isn’t the students fault. More power to you. I expect teens to have hormonal issues, leading to problems with loss of control, which (I guess) is reflected in the law. Teachers, being grown adults and considered emotionally intelligent enough to be put in positions of authority and guidance, doing the same is clearly a criminal/stupid act. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/49 "2013-08-29T20:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Naïve??? He was a teacher. He knew the law. He knew her age. He cultivated a relationship with a vulnerable child for an extended period of time. He knew exactly what he was doing. There is a simple rule in teaching that really isn’t that hard to follow, DON"T FUCK THE STUDENTS. He’s 54. Old enough to be her grandfather. Yeah, I know some people fuck their grandkids. My point is, there’s no WAY that the girl had as much control over the situation as the teacher did. And this guy had already been warned to keep his hands off of the students’ bodies: [Stacey Rambold, Former Teacher Who Raped Student, Gets 30 Days Jail | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/stacy-rambold-raped-suicidal-student_n_3822640.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/50 "2013-08-29T21:16:35Z")
Sheesh everybody, cool down. Some girls just rape easy, you know? The judge understands this fact as does Bricker. After all, if she wasn’t in control of the situation by acting like a little slut, we wouldn’t be talking about this. I knew this 30 something guy who had consensual sex with a 11 year old that didn’t get off so easy, though I don’t understand why. She was totally asking to be nailed calling this guy daddy and shit… The are reasons that a 14 year old can’t legally consent counselor; I find it your talk of consensual sex between the 56 year old teacher and the 14 year old junior high school student offensive in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/51 "2013-08-29T21:32:38Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Sheesh everybody, cool down. Some girls just rape easy, you know? The judge understands this fact as does Bricker. After all, if she wasn’t in control of the situation by acting like a little slut, we wouldn’t be talking about this. I knew this 30 something guy who had consensual sex with a 11 year old that didn’t get off so easy, though I don’t understand why. She was totally asking to be nailed calling this guy daddy and shit… > > The are reasons that a 14 year old can’t legally consent counselor; I find it your talk of consensual sex between the 56 year old teacher and the 14 year old junior high school student offensive in the extreme. That is a totally over the top kneejerk reaction to what Bricker said and I see nothing that was said to deserve this. Says a lot more about you than him. ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/52 "2013-08-29T21:54:49Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Sheesh everybody, cool down. Some girls just rape easy, you know? The judge understands this fact as does Bricker. After all, if she wasn’t in control of the situation by acting like a little slut, we wouldn’t be talking about this. I knew this 30 something guy who had consensual sex with a 11 year old that didn’t get off so easy, though I don’t understand why. She was totally asking to be nailed calling this guy daddy and shit… > > The are reasons that a 14 year old can’t legally consent counselor; I find it your talk of consensual sex between the 56 year old teacher and the 14 year old junior high school student offensive in the extreme. 1. An adult sleeps with a 14-year old, which the 14-year old does willingly, as they think they are in love. 2. An adult grabs a 14-year old walking home from school, drags them into a van, beats the shit out of them, rapes them, and dumps them in a ditch. The law says both of these are non-consensual (as it should). Intelligent people can still recognize that there are differences between the two. Intelligent people can also recognize that this does not mean one is ok, just that they are different. Find an intelligent person and ask them. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/53 "2013-08-30T03:19:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is a totally over the top kneejerk reaction to what Bricker said and I see nothing that was said to deserve this. Says a lot more about you than him. Yeah, on re-reading the thread maybe I was over reacting a bit. The story pisses me off; with two daughters a bit younger than this and knowing multiple women that lost their virginity by rape, and with the moronic and offensive treatment of women by some members of the Republican Party lately, I am a bit keyed up on this issue lately. Still, FWIW I was reacting to this: > [@Bricker](#): > > \ How does that show the sex was not consensual? (Again understanding that no person fourteen years old can legally consent; we’re talking about a willing sexu\*\*al act as opposed to force or coercion beyond the fact of age). The thing is that i have known many teen girls in my life, including some that had inappropriate sexual relationships with adults. I had a pretty fucked up time during my teen years and many of my crowd were in a similar fucked up place (I graduated from an alternative high school and most of us were dropouts). Now, 20 odd years later, it occurs to me that much of our confusion with these types of relationships was not due to us thinking we were in love (as **Library Boy** seems to think), but because we were victims of abuse. This conclusion has been reinforced by several people who I know now that work in various roles with abused children. It is not normal for a14 year old to feel sexual love for a almost 60 year old man. It is highly correlated with previous abuse. What this teacher did is inexcusable and it is clear now that this girl was very troubled. I am sure it was clear then. 30 days is a travesty of justice and the fact that it was _“consenual”_ is completely bullshit > [@Library\_Boy](#): > > 1. An adult sleeps with a 14-year old, which the 14-year old does willingly, as they think they are in love. > > 2. An adult grabs a 14-year old walking home from school, drags them into a van, beats the shit out of them, rapes them, and dumps them in a ditch. > > The law says both of these are non-consensual (as it should). > > Intelligent people can still recognize that there are differences between the two. > > Intelligent people can also recognize that this does not mean one is ok, just that they are different. > > Find an intelligent person and ask them. Bite me asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/54 "2013-08-30T12:16:31Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Yeah, on re-reading the thread maybe I was over reacting a bit. The story pisses me off; with two daughters a bit younger than this and knowing multiple women that lost their virginity by rape, and with the moronic and offensive treatment of women by some members of the Republican Party lately, I am a bit keyed up on this issue lately. Still, FWIW I was reacting to this: > > The thing is that i have known many teen girls in my life, including some that had inappropriate sexual relationships with adults. I had a pretty fucked up time during my teen years and many of my crowd were in a similar fucked up place (I graduated from an alternative high school and most of us were dropouts). Now, 20 odd years later, it occurs to me that much of our confusion with these types of relationships was not due to us thinking we were in love (as **Library Boy** seems to think), but because we were victims of abuse. This conclusion has been reinforced by several people who I know now that work in various roles with abused children. > > It is not normal for a14 year old to feel sexual love for a almost 60 year old man. It is highly correlated with previous abuse. What this teacher did is inexcusable and it is clear now that this girl was very troubled. I am sure it was clear then. 30 days is a travesty of justice and the fact that it was _“consenual”_ is completely bullshit > > Bite me asshole. Bricker was simply clarifying that wording of the statute did not necessarily mean that force was used. Some people were confused. He never said there was nothing wrong with the conduct or that he shouldn’t be punished. In fact he did say the judges comments were idiotic. Just because an issue is emotionally charged doesn’t mean that facts can’t be stated and confusion can still be cleared up. Bricker often tries to tell people how the law works in the middle of their RO and gets shit for it because he doesn’t shut up and grab a pitchfork. I do the same. Maybe he takes it too far sometimes but I just don’t see it here. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/55 "2013-08-30T15:43:51Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Bite me asshole. Knock off the name-calling of other posters outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/56 "2013-08-30T19:40:11Z")
Meanwhile, in other rape news: [Rust College is under fire for re-hiring a teacher accused of raping a 16-year-old, who went on to rape multiple students on campus.](http://www.alternet.org/investigations/worst-college-women-united-states) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/57 "2013-08-31T00:08:13Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > He’s 54. Old enough to be her grandfather. Yeah, I know some people fuck their grandkids. My point is, there’s no WAY that the girl had as much control over the situation as the teacher did. . I read some months ago about a case here in France where a (in this case former and retired) teacher similarly got only a suspended sentence. The victim (also 14, IIRC) had tracked down the retired teacher and bugged him until he lapsed. The teacher was arrested after the victim’s mother brought charges, but the daughter from then on steadily refused to have any relation with her mother (and eventually had to be removed from her custody as a result) and testified for the defence (almost two years after the fact IIRC). I guess not all 14 yo are created equal. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/58 "2013-09-04T16:45:30Z")
Another somewhat odd development: [Judge orders new hearing in Rambold rape case](http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/judge-orders-new-hearing-in-rambold-rape-case/article_cd2ca382-bccb-5bbe-bfe5-37ab97540da8.html) Apparently the Judge now thinks the smallest sentence he was allowed to impose was 2 months instead of 30 days and is taking the rather unusual step of holding a hearing to reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/59 "2013-09-04T17:16:43Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Poor kid. No one cares about her or her death, just the teacher - can’t ruin his life, now. What, no-one? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392/60 "2013-09-04T17:38:09Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The victim (also 14, IIRC) had tracked down the retired teacher and bugged him until he lapsed. Yeah, adults are totally absolved of any guilt in these situations if the high school freshman is _persistent._ Totally makes sense. It’s like when my mom taught me that you should always decline offers from people three times, just to be polite. “No, thank you, I don’t need anything. No, really, it’s fine. Really, it’s ok. FINE, I’LL FUCK YOUR KID, but only because you asked me so many times!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-days-for-rape/667392.md?page=4)